This psycho wouldn't have any Lewinsky evidence on you would she? If she were to accuse you of something even more nuts and your wife finds out about the affair in court that would be terrible for her and for you...if you have so seriously lied to your wife why wouldn't you lie to a court?

Tread carefully.

ayslyne

I understand where you are coming from regarding your fog/withdrawl experience however not all facts are universal.

Regardless of the weaknesses in a relationship the choice to have an affair is simply nothing more than a personal character flaw...no matter how that flaw was acquired the CHOICE is the defining and the only truly pertinent factor.


ayslyne

whiteknight....As a FWW, I can only say that you have more nerve than most here. You have expressed the deepest darkest emotions that are wrapped up with the OP. Feelings that many feel but would never have the nerve to say out loud. I know that you are being heavily critized, especially by the BS's. This has got to be very painful for them to read and to acknowledge.

I can see through what you are trying to say though and although it may be hard for some to read or to think about, it's the truth at many levels.

whiteknight...I did confess to my H before he heard or found out about it. This has got to be eating at you day and night. Trust me, she has got to know that something is way off with you. I don't think that my H was very surprised though, nor were my kids (d-18, s-22). I had enough emotional meltdowns to send out warning signs on numerous occassions.

WK..you need to tell her, for her sake and yours. I do want to tell you that your thread, as much as it irritated many here, brought a tear to my eyes. The sexual part is so very true and I don't know that I will ever completely forgive myself for "whoring" myself out to OP for 10 months while he claimed that his W was his "soulmate"!! My H's love is much deeper for me than mine is for myself. I trust that your wife's will be too.

Whiteknight -

Lisa applauds you for having the nerve to post what you have here. Now you need to summon some real nerve and tell your wife what's going on. On the surface, your story looks like one that will only get scarier and messier unless you step in, take control and stop this madness.

Yes, your wife will be hurt, but she probably has at least an inkling already. At the very least she'll be able to understand why these people are out to ruin your lives. Who knows, maybe then she'll be able to help you deal with it since the fear of her finding out will no longer be a weapon the OW and her H can use against you.

Time to live in honesty and put a stop to this insanity before it consumes you and everything/everyone you love. Otherwise, I'm afraid you'll end up alone and wondering how your life went to hell so fast.

shattered...I don't think that applaud is really the wright adjective in this case. I'm only saying that he has touched on an area that is a problem in many marriages. I think also that if every married person were to be as honest as WK has been in admitting this aspect of the A, everyone would agree to having fantasies at times. Sure, not everyone acts on these, thank God!! But, there are many BS's who have been at the same place as the WS in feeling lonely, etc, and thankfully did not have an OP to come along and tempt them at that vulnerable stage.

I think the bottom line is, yes the WS had no right to do what they did to their S and to their marriage, regardless of what they thought was missing from their marriage. Chances are, their S is feeling that same way but didn't act upon it.

I do sincerely hope that WK will tell his W though. It not only brings healing to the marriage but to the WS as well who has to live with the regret everyday of his/her life. There are some that may say that is what we deserve. God help you if that's the case, because you never ever know what temptation you may be faced with. I've learned many things over the last 2 years and at the top of the list is to "never say never"!

Whiteknight -- you say you don't want to "hurt" your wife. She is already hurt! It was the affair that hurt her -- not the revelation of it. She just doesn't know the name of the disease yet.

"Never say never and never say always" is something I've learned over the years, with having been through my children's teenage years and with all aspects of life really.

In HNHN Dr Harley specifically says anyone can reach the point of having an A and our MC who is a Christian woman and also VERY pro marriage says the same.

My H disagrees - he says never and I believe him and I am sure all the other BS's here disagree as well.

I also think WK should tell his W. I felt my H was not being given the opportunity to have a say in his own life while he didn't know and I thought that was disrespectful by me of him as a human being, an adult and as my H.

Jenny

whiteknight, I just want to add a few things that no one has said. I think it's an AA saying that says "we are only as sick as our secrets." I think this secret is making you sick.

I had to drag every piece of truth out of my H. Well actually on 1/8/04 he asked me to talk. That's when he told me he had feelings for OW, but never revealed them. On some level I think he knew I was getting ready to leave. I was sick of being in a cold M, and having him refuse to talk. Maybe he also knew that info he gave me wouldn't be enough for me. I'm too smart. When he told me it was an EA,I would say, "OK, so you and OW would gaze at each other across her desk and say "I love you" every now and then? And you were thinking of leaving our boys and I for that?" Bottom line is if you were having an A for 10 months you weren't giving to your M and your wife felt it.

When I snooped and found OW's love letters, I finally had the details my H wouldn't reveal or actually lied about. When I told him I knew everthing, including him screwing her while my dad was dying in the hospital, he was glad I knew. Do you know why I told him? Because as long as he and OW know things that I don't know, he is tied to her. It's there little secrets. When I checked out his business master card bills I found out he took her to an expensive restaurant the week before we went away together. I even saw what they ordered. Now that is no longer the SPECIAL dinner they had together. I will want to continue to get info in order to break up H's fantasy. I want to be the one again that knows more about the OW, not being the one kept in the dark while she shared with my H.

WK, do you get what I'm saying? One of the reasons you are still obsessing about OW is because you have all your secrets with her. Have your read "Not Just Friends"? The author says in a M there should be windows, meaning an openess between H and W. Doors should be put up to protect against people who are not friends of the M. She says when an A occurs the WS puts a door between him/herself and their S, and windows with the OP. You still have this door between you and your W. The most traumatic thing occurred in your M and your W doesn't know about it, but the FOW does. I guarantee you that if you become honest with your W you will become freer from the OW. Your W can then support you in what you are going through.

Yes, you risk losing her. I am one of those people that believe the BS has the right to know. If my H did what you are doing, the thought that he never gave me the opportunity to choose my fate that thought makes me sick. He knew in his gut we would never have true intimacy again if he didn't tell me. If your W chooses to leave you, then at least you will be free of this self torment you are living in every day. You sound like my H in that he has a conscious. He "F"ed up big time. I think I read a post from 2ofakind who said that us BS's feel the worst pain immediately, but the WS feels it later and more long term. I'm just starting to see that. On Easter my H was around my family who don't know and he felt terrible. Whether they know he lied or not, he knows. Now he has to deal with it.

OK, I'll shut up. This is too long. I care about you WK, and I just don't want you or your W to be in hell any longer than you need to be. The longer you wait, the harder it will be, and the more deceived she will feel. I'll be praying for you! CV

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Maybe I missed it, but why did you have the A in the first place? Do you blame anything in the marriage? Were you having problems in the marriage? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, the whole purpose of this post was to show why I stayed in the A, so no reaosn to re-hash that. There are no more words to say. But WHY did I have an A? Geez, who the heck really knows?

I've been with my W for 12 years. We met as teenagers. I have ben hit on non-stop for years by girls and NEVERtook advantage of any "opportunities" before. Maybe I was wondering what I was missing. Maybe I was nuts. Maybe I'm like any other guy who took advantage of a hut, dumb model who offered sex. Maybe I wanted to be with someone who had children and who wanted more (my wife doesn't want any). Maybe I was lonely because I met her while I was working long hours and was staying in a hotel. Maybe my defenses were low. Maybe I was looking for some excitement in my life. Maybe I liked the idea that someone had a crush on me and that I had a crush back.

The OW leaned in to kiss me once and it was a nice kiss. I never kissed anyone like that before. My W doesn't like to kiss. My W doesn't like to have sex. My W doesn't talk very much. I've tried to change these things, but she doesn't care. I was tired of practically begging my W for sex. It was embarassing. The weird thing is, in 2003 I had sex with OW hundreds of times. I had sex with my W twice. My W didn't seem at all concerned about it. I think she was relieved. She's only 30.

Some of you might remember I once wondered if my W was a lesbian! She was NOT molested as a child or anything weird. She's just never been interested in it. I know from my experience with OW that I don't suck in bed.

Why did I have an affair? The reasons are endless I guess. And it's not like I didn't try to fix things with my W before hand. She didn't care.

And as for WITHDRAWEL. As if it wasn't bad enough for me already ... I broke off A with OW, my does not know, and W and I have had sex 2-3 times in the last 6 months. Yes, I am freaked out after having been with OW, but I have been willing to have sex with W, and she doesn't care. Nothing has changed.

OH, AND ASFOR EVIDENCE that OW might have on me. She sure has it, but for some crazy reason hasn't used it against me yet. I'm sure that will come once the legal hassles are over. In fact, she might even be dangerous enough to hurt me or my W if and when the legal stuff flops.

Yes, I know she needs to be told. I'm dealing with a lot right now. Arrows are flying at me from every direction. I am too busy dodging them to explain to the person next to me why we're being targeted.

I’m not WAT, but I’m gonna jump in here.

Are we defining a stereotype here? Would I then be within reason to counter with, "BSs are universally martyred - destined to sainthood."?
An affair, by definition is selfish. They (ws) are doing it for their own satisfaction.
Not one single affair occurs to “benefit” the bs. They occur without ANY regard for the the bs.

Not all bs are”martyred” nor do all deserve “sainthood”. Some are downright a-holes to the ws (before, during and/or after the affair).

CV55

Thanks for all that. You're right. OW and I still have our secrets. I'm sure OW hasn't even told her H everything. In fact, she's probably lying t him as much as she's lied to me. Based on what I've experienced, she is certainly a very talented liar and quite manipulative.

I'm not one to throw stones, however. I'm a liar too, but I am being honest in saying that I have NOT told W because I don't want her to be hurt.

Everyone's advice makes sense. It's funny because OW used to tell me to tell W too! She would tell me, "Your W will be more hurt when she realizes you've been deceiving her for so long!" Who would have guessed that the OW would give good advice?

The FOG is thick and cold and wraps itself tightly around anyone in it. It's not easy to escape. Especially when one is shivering in withdrawel!

Once again, let my example be a lesson for all to understand what the WS is going through. We're surrounded by walls and bridges, and even though we know which direction we want to go in, it's difficult to get on the path that leads us out of here.

Originally posted by whiteknight:

I broke off A with OW, my does not know, and W and I have had sex 2-3 times in the last 6 months. Yes, I am freaked out after having been with OW, but I have been willing to have sex with W, and she doesn't care. Nothing has changed.

Well, on a pragmatic note .... your STD risk has changed. Get checked out.

OH, AND ASFOR EVIDENCE that OW might have on me. She sure has it, but for some crazy reason hasn't used it against me yet. I'm sure that will come once the legal hassles are over. In fact, she might even be dangerous enough to hurt me or my W if and when the legal stuff flops.

Fatal Attraction ....... creepy stuff you've embraced via this OW.

Yes, I know she needs to be told. I'm dealing with a lot right now. Arrows are flying at me from every direction. I am too busy dodging them to explain to the person next to me why we're being targeted.

Don't wait too long. You seem pretty stressed. And keeping all this inside is bad for you.

Pep

Originally posted by whiteknight:

I'm not one to throw stones, however. I'm a liar too, but I am being honest in saying that I have NOT told W because I don't want her to be hurt.

Yikes!

However, you are NOT dealing with an ordinary OW here, are you?

Does the name *~Amy Fisher~* ring any bells?

I think Joey Butafucco wanted to keep his A a secret to protect his wife from hurt also.

But Amy had other plans. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

D-day was a real blast for Mrs. Butafucco!

I think if you are dealing with a dangerous person OW, and you have not forwarned your unsuspecting wife ... you are morally responsible for any danger she may be facing .... unbeknownst to her!

How'd you like to see your wife with a bullet in her brain .... like Mrs. Butafucco?

Something to think about .... you have done some things you have to face .... the facts are that you ....

Had an affair.
Put yourself and your wife at risk for STDs.
Enraged a dangerous and vengeful OW who may hurt your wife.

....... and what was that you said?

oh yeah...

You don't want to "hurt" your wife.

Comm'on.... your wife needs protecting! So, protect her.

Pep

If this weren't so sad it would be funny! Are you really all that surprised that this woman is willing to hurt you in order to keep her marriage? She is a selfish person, no? She is going to do or say ANYTHING that is to her benefit now. The moment she (as a married woman) leaned in to kiss you (a married man) you should have realized that she doesn't care that her actions may/will hurt others.. now YOU are the "others" and THAT makes you mad! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />


WN said: Imagine you meet someone who has a crush on you. Whether of not YOU think the OP is ugly or pretty doesn't matter. There are plenty of ugly kids in the world, but no parent will admit their child is ugly. The simple truth of the matter is, when you care abut someone, they become beautiful in front of your eyes, and that is enough.
My response: imagine you meet someone who uses you to feed their ego or for financial reasons or just to help them out of a bad marriage. YOU could be ANYONE, it doesn't matter! SHE wants something from you (DO NOT fool yourself into thinking it was sex! It was something other than that) She was using you for a selfish need and did not care whether it hurt you your family or her family.

WN said: Imagine the person you meet smiles when they see you, they are happy to see you, they tell you how wonderful you are, and how attractive you are, that they always dreamed about meeting someone like you.
My response: Imagine the person you meet isn't real, she's acting. She PRETENDS to be someone she really isn't. She PRETENDS that you are Mr. wonderful when she KNOWS that you AREN'T (if you WERE you wouldn't be cheating on your wife and unless she is as dumb as a rock she knows this)

WN said: Imagine this person cares about how your day is and they want to know about your life and they tell you how proud they are of you.
My response: This person doesn't give two s#its about your day, but she will hang on your every word and try to make you THINK she does. She has an agenda and it requires her to fake it. Gotta be on your best behavior when competing with another woman (the wife) since she needed an ego boost by proving to herself that she is SUCH an amazing woman that she could cause a man to betray his wife for her, she had to put in the extra effort to show him how great she could be (PUKE!)

WN said: Imagine this person leans in one day and kisses you and you feel like a 16 year old again. All these wonderful chemicals are zooming through your body. Your skin tingles. You feel warm and a bit sweaty.
My response: Imagine that if this were a person who cared about you, would she have done this? REALLY? would she complicate your life and do something that (unless she's an idiot) she knows will cause you a great deal of trouble, and may cost you your marriage, or will end in your loving her when she obviously doesn't feel that for you (look at her current behavior)

Imagine the time comes when you can be alone with the OP. The OP slides their hand down your pants or up your shirt. The OP wraps their arms around you and squeezes you tight and tell you they want to make love with you. see above

WN said: Imagine having sex with someone like you never had sex before. Imagine the OP does things to you or allows you to do things that your S would never do ... or gave up doing. Imagine FINALLY having an amazing sex life!
My response, imagine putting the same effort into the woman who you would trust "if you took her to the desert and handed her a million dollars and a gun" the woman who LOVES you! What an amazing sex life that could be! You have problems with your sex life with your wife, there's always a reason for that. Maybe you should try and find out what those reasons are and work on it. I was never a prude. I can't think of a time I said no before my H cheated, not even ONE time! I was willing to do things with/for him that I think most women wouldn't. That has changed, he could have had the worlds greatest sex life if he hadn't blown it!

one more thing, if you were to take the OW out to the middle of the desert, hand her a million dollars and a gun, with a guarantee that no one would ever know what happened to you what do you think would happen? I'll bet you wouldn't be back to post tomorrow <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ April 13, 2004, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: toomanylies ]</small>

WK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BUT FOR WHATEVER REASON YOU FINALLY CHOOSE TO RETURN TO YOUR S and / or family.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is the BS supposed to feel lucky to have you back? My W wanted to kill me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Withdrawal sucks. I miss the attention. I miss the sex. I miss the way she looked at me. I miss her phone calls. I miss her laugh. I miss my friend. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WELL BOOHOO!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But your WS chose you. And you are pissed. You are filled with resentment. You are suspicious, you are cold and distant. Sex might suck. Your S is NOT looking forward to coming home. Your S feels like a piece of garbage in your eyes.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you are making the respectable WS's look bad. We have to win the (BS) back not the other way around. If you want the life back into your M you have to bring it back yourself. You want your S to be happy when you walk in through the door? Then be her hero and if she doesn't notice how "heroic" you've been then try harder.
Imagine that!
H

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by whiteknight:
<strong>Maybe I'm like any other guy who took advantage of a hut, dumb model who offered sex.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Once again, here's where you, in your current state, part company with guys of character and integrity.

What makes you think that "any other guy" who is married will jump at the chance to jump the bones of any offering?

If this short term thinking defines your values, I suggest you release your wife from her marriage and go about your life on a continuous rotation from hot model to hot model - just leave the married ones to their own marriages.

On the other hand, if this is still foglatin, you'll have a chance to see more clearly if you really change your pattern and establish goals and values of a mature man. Become like the real "any other guy."

WAT

WOW!...this must be the thread of the month!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Whitenight...my only advice to you...tell your wife the truth...tell her how bad your frustration was that it actually led to the affair...she needs to know. If your frustration remains then what makes you think you won't fall for another affair??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

ARGH!

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: dadto3boys ]</small>

ARGH...I did it again!

That was supposed to be from me!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Originally posted by whiteknight:

quote:
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Maybe I missed it, but why did you have the A in the first place? Do you blame anything in the marriage? Were you having problems in the marriage?
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Well, the whole purpose of this post was to show why I stayed in the A, so no reaosn to re-hash that. There are no more words to say. But WHY did I have an A? Geez, who the heck really knows?

I've been with my W for 12 years. We met as teenagers. I have ben hit on non-stop for years by girls and NEVERtook advantage of any "opportunities" before. Maybe I was wondering what I was missing. Maybe I was nuts. Maybe I'm like any other guy who took advantage of a hut, dumb model who offered sex. Maybe I wanted to be with someone who had children and who wanted more (my wife doesn't want any). Maybe I was lonely because I met her while I was working long hours and was staying in a hotel. Maybe my defenses were low. Maybe I was looking for some excitement in my life. Maybe I liked the idea that someone had a crush on me and that I had a crush back.

The OW leaned in to kiss me once and it was a nice kiss. I never kissed anyone like that before. My W doesn't like to kiss. My W doesn't like to have sex. My W doesn't talk very much. I've tried to change these things, but she doesn't care. I was tired of practically begging my W for sex. It was embarassing. The weird thing is, in 2003 I had sex with OW hundreds of times. I had sex with my W twice. My W didn't seem at all concerned about it. I think she was relieved. She's only 30.

Some of you might remember I once wondered if my W was a lesbian! She was NOT molested as a child or anything weird. She's just never been interested in it. I know from my experience with OW that I don't suck in bed.

Why did I have an affair? The reasons are endless I guess. And it's not like I didn't try to fix things with my W before hand. She didn't care.

And as for WITHDRAWEL. As if it wasn't bad enough for me already ... I broke off A with OW, my does not know, and W and I have had sex 2-3 times in the last 6 months. Yes, I am freaked out after having been with OW, but I have been willing to have sex with W, and she doesn't care. Nothing has changed.

OH, AND ASFOR EVIDENCE that OW might have on me. She sure has it, but for some crazy reason hasn't used it against me yet. I'm sure that will come once the legal hassles are over. In fact, she might even be dangerous enough to hurt me or my W if and when the legal stuff flops.

Yes, I know she needs to be told. I'm dealing with a lot right now. Arrows are flying at me from every direction. I am too busy dodging them to explain to the person next to me why we're being targeted.
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WK, you have got to tell your wife...You cant "fix" your marriage until your wife KNOWS about this...I was just like your wife. I didnt' like sex, H and I never talked, we distanced ourselves from each other, etc, etc...only differenece is WE do have kids, which my H, come to find out, is very stressed over. OK, after finding our about my H affair, I am now a different person. I WANT to make this marriage bettre than ever. I KNEW we were heading in a downhill position, but never did I think MY H would have an A.

Whiteknight...you have a very big advantage here that MOST WS dont have. You have ended your A. My H was still very deep into his affair when I wanted to start saving it. Some BS never have the chance cuz their S are so far into the A and they wont come back. YOU ARE back and YOU WANT to save your marriage. dont you think you owe your wife that much too.

YOU MUST tell her, BUT you must also let her know that IT IS NOT HER FAULT....she has NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING to do with this affair. Yea, she doens't like sex, she doesn't do this or that...bla bla bla. It was YOUR actions that made you step over that line. This is what we have learned thru counseling with SH. I am starting to realize that it was NOT MY FAULT...

Once you tell your wife, imagine how much bettre your marriage COULD BE! You have the materials to make it better..You have MB, use it. But use it with your wife.

About the sex drive...I hvae a low sex drive too...simply put, we fell out of love and you and your W probably have too. I am reading several books to "learn" how to be more sexual and "learn" other things too. She may not enjoy it because she cant have an O...or you may not be giving her enough foreplay. Woman LOVE affection. We need to be touched, carressed, not just jump in bed. Start giving your wife more attention, hug her, touch her, hold her hand, tell her how nice she looks, what a great job she is doing, rub her back, shoulders...

BUT FIRST, tell her about your A! Then send her HERE...we will get her thru the pain.
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