Dear Knight,

Reading through your threads I noticed you mention only being with virgins...My question is was/is it important to you in your wife?

I guess I have more than one question regarding this topic.

Do you feel responsible for your wife's lack of sexual interest because you do not "lead" her to fulfill your needs?

Have you emphasized your feelings positive or negative regarding this topic to your wife?

Could her lack of sexual desire stem from your lack of romancing her/praising her?

Do you think because you want sex that she should know you think she is sexy?

Do you tell her specifically what you like in and out of the bed room?

Do you flirt with her? Do you touch her intimately outside of the bed room? Do you attempt to make her feel sexual? Do you even know how?

I wonder in general if men who marry virgins or inexperienced women do their part in creating a sexual partner pleasing to them?


You see my husband is my one and only. I think my sexuality is very much based on his lead. If he were less open about what he wanted I don't know if I would have developed along the same lines. I definitely thrive on his praise. I follow his lead. Although I do iniate because I know he likes it. If I felt he was downgrading my inexperience I doubt I would have felt comfortable to try new things. He is my total reason for being sexy/sexual. I do love sex, but sex with him.

Obviously he was/is much more experienced than I am. In the beginning I don't think it was important to him-my virginity-but as he has aged the idea of me with another man completely freaks him out. He is so glad I have only ever been with him-especially since we do some wild things. One thing he always did was praise me sexually, he has always been complimentary and a day doesn't go by that he doesn't touch me in a sexual way.

It is ironic that he cheated so much when we had and continue to build an amazing sex life. But as I said it is not always about lack of good sex. Don't get me wrong he has slept on the floor during terrible times but we are very sexual and we tend to heal that part of our lives more quickly than others.

So what is your take on this?

Anyone jump in with thoughts.


ayslyne

ayslyne

Thank you very much for this post. You care and it is kind of you to offer to help.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Reading through your threads I noticed you mention only being with virgins...My question is was/is it important to you in your wife?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Once upon a time I think it was important to be with a virgin. In H.S. I was friendly with lots of girls, but there must have been something about what I looked like or acted like that convinced some girls that they would want me to be their "first one." I never took advantage of this. As I mentioned before, I don't really know how to pick up girls. Any girlfriend I ever had always made the first move and hit on me. I guess I was always afraid of being shot down, so I never asked anyone out. So that's why I only had a handful of girlfriends in my life, and they were all virgins when I met them.

For a guy, it was kind of cool to be with a virgin too because they had no idea what was right or wrong, and if sex didn't last too long, they didn't have anythng to compare it to. Don't get me wrong, however. I never had any "problems" so it probably wouldn't have bothered me too much to NOT be with virgins. It just never really happened.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you feel responsible for your wife's lack of sexual interest because you do not "lead" her to fulfill your needs?

Have you emphasized your feelings positive or negative regarding this topic to your wife?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

No, I've brought it up for years. Maybe I went about it all wrong. I always mentioned it out of frustration. I guess what I should have done --- based on what I have been told repeatedly here --- is make more of an effort to appeal to what SHE wants more.

That eing said, I'm still not sure if it would have worked, She just doens't have the same sex drive I do.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could her lack of sexual desire stem from your lack of romancing her/praising her?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I have never had a problem praising her. She is very pretty, nice hair, smells real nice. Nice smile. I am lots of fun. I wrap my arms around her all the time for no reason whatsoever. I don't think she has ever felt that I did not like her or love her.


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wonder in general if men who marry virgins or inexperienced women do their part in creating a sexual partner pleasing to them?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

That is a very interesting point and it makes sense. I have "taught" my girlfriends what to do. I even taught the OW what to do --- since she claimed she did not do much with her H and her ex-boyfriends were all jerks who just screwed her for a minute or two.


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In the beginning I don't think it was important to him-my virginity-but as he has aged the idea of me with another man completely freaks him out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Yeah, I can relate to that. The idea of my W being with someone else sickens me to no end.


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is ironic that he cheated so much when we had and continue to build an amazing sex life. But as I said it is not always about lack of good sex.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am sorry that this has happened to you. It is ironic. What in the world made him cheat on you?

As I've mentioned before, there is something about my W where she just doens't seem to NEED much love and attention and sex, etc. She just doesn't feel like she has to talk to me or anyone else very much. She doesn't get lonely.

OW on the other hand was the exact opposite. She was the loneliest person I ever met in my life, even though she had two kids and a husband. She NEEDED attention and went she wasn't getting it from her H, she turned to me.

In some ways, I'm actually glad my W is the way she is. If anyone has ever been with a NEEDY person before they know as well as I do that it can be terribly draining. Sometimes people just need to recharge on their own without someone hovering over them all the time.

Hi Knight,

I really think this is interesting. I think more men should be aware. I cannot say for sure, but if you would teach your wife it could be more beneficial in the long run. I know my sex drive is not as high as my husband's...I don't think many women have a sex drive as high as men-hello testosterone. However, I have a high desire to please him in all ways.

Just feeling liked/loved is not the same as feeling sexy. Men need to understand that women are generally responsive. Saying to your wife: "Your hair looks great" elicits a different response than a whispered erotic message, especially if your not alone and sex is not going to immediately follow. It is such a turn on to believe that in the midst of some mundane everyday event something about my presence has my husband "standing at attention".

I don't want to be graphic but describing how sexually turned on you are by your wife to your wife can do wonders for her confidence. Pretty and sexy are not synonmous.

Also I have to point out that my husband didn't just say let's try this and I was hooked. It took time, lots of praise and patience. For example...oral sex...I thought you want me to do what? It took time to feel confident and comfortable but it helped that he was so complimentary, before, during and after. Believe me I was not doing the Pamela Anderson thing on my wedding night-that stuff took years. My point is it takes years, a life time, that is why married sex is the best sex.

Women don't normally respond to frustration and scolding. What is funny is you think flowers, romance etc are irrelevant...maybe she thinks sex is irrelevant.


Why did he cheat on me? He was young, stupid, arrogant, self-centered, enjoyed the conquest, enjoyed the rush of being hit on, enjoyed the idea that everywhere he turned there was a woman who wanted him, and he knew that I was wildly in love with him to the point of self-destruction.
I am not perfect but I never pushed him to other women, he lacked for nothing in our relationship. What he did lack then was a sense of personal character and morality. He has changed.

I know you are facing the beginning of the revelation. It is the best thing you can do but I feel for you both. It will be terrible for her but it will also be terrible for you because you will carry the hurt you have caused her for the rest of your life. And you do not yet have an idea of what deep pain that is.

In many ways you remind me of my husband...not the bad ways...some but not all. He is a good man, a better man now. So too can you be.


Any other thoughts welcomed.


ayslyne

ay....I totally agree with you about the sexuality thing with women. I am so ashamed to admit this and this is the first time that I have shared this on MB but I sound a lot like WK's wife. I was a virgin when we married and never particulary was crazy about sex, even in the beginning. My H has never been the type to openly show affection with words or actions and I guess that I've always been insecure. I know that my H loves me but just had never really been one to make me feel wanted or needed or sexy, etc, etc. This is where the OM came into my life and did fulfill those needs that have always been there.

Although I know realize that OM's compliments and such were BS just to get me into bed. I'm a little smarter now, you might say <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I guess I have a really hard time understanding how I could let myself be so uninhibited with a man that I barely knew when I've never been able to open up like that to my H. Words are powerful tools in foreplay and spouses cannot assume that the other knows how they feel about them. These words need to be spoken.

Lisa,


Exactly, words do need to be spoken...I think there are tons of men out there who have latent/potential sex kittens for wives but do very little to nothing to encourage it.

As I have said pretty and sexy are not the same thing.

I don't want to sound inappropriate but isn't it a turn on to hear how turned on your husand is about you. And I mean turned on...not just I love you, you look great etc, I mean sometimes I just think of you naked and I shake...or some such compliment. When we think we have a head start on turning our mate on, we have something to build on. We are no longer the inexperienced waif, avaiable for marital duty.

Thanks for posting Lisa.

Any other comments welcome.

ayslyne

<small>[ April 18, 2004, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: ayslyne ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess I have a really hard time understanding how I could let myself be so uninhibited with a man that I barely knew when I've never been able to open up like that to my H. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this is very common in A. I won't get into WHY, because things I have written have hurt enough people on this site, bu all us WS know what we mean.

A & Lisa:

I sire have learned a lot from your posts. It would be interesting to see IF and when sex can ever get better. I will certainly be more aware of the way I treat her from now on, and make sure it comes from the heart. I certainly don't want to say things just in hopes of getting her into bed. That would not be fair to either of us.

However, I did speak to her over the phone tonight and mentioned our sex life and she answered me in the same way she has in the past, insisting that she has never been the lovey-dovey, touchy feely, affectionate type who was into sex. After she said that I just let it sink in that as long as I am with her I will NEVER have the sex life I wish I had or could have.

But I will try. And I will buy some of the books that have been suggested and pass them on to her and see what works.

WK,

I think I saw in one of your earlier posts that you have yet to tell your W of your A. One is this true? Two, if it is, could that be part of why you and your W may not be able to fully share this intimate experience. My W was a virgin when we first met. I was prepared to wait until we got married, but she couldn't wait. She said something about "she was afraid she'd die a virgin and wanted to experience it with me." Long story short, I always thought we had a good sex life until our 2nd or 3rd child was born. Then it just seemed to tail off (plus I was working more and longer hours). Where I'm going with this is here: I never expected her to have an affair but she did. One of the things the OM used to tell her was that he was doing that to make her M better and it used to infuriate her. Well, nothing that he did improved our M, it's been b/c of all our hard work. Granted, we're only two months in from D-day, but our sex life has never been better (supposedly, the sex with the OM was never all that great-whether that's true or not I'll never fully know, but at least it has opened her up to allow me to more fully display my love for her - in sexual ways that she never allowed before).

Thanks for your feedback. Certainly communication seems to be the key to making every relationship work better. It is quite likel that she and I have had kept too much to ourselves and she doesn' want to do anything that I might think is weird or doesn't work or whatever. It is really sad that I was able to talk about sex with OW non-stop and we really knew what to do to each other, but with W, I just let that go.

However, in my own defense, I have read enough posts here to see that part of the problem can also be that my W just is not the affectionate type who needs or really wants sex. SHE HAS TOLD ME THIS. I asked her yesterday what I can do to fix things and she said nothing, she's just never been interested in sex with anyone. Wouldn't it be interesting if I find out she's having an A?

MC is in order. I've got to find out if there is SOMETHING more than what she is telling me. Process of elimination has been working great. I have gotten lots of great feedback here, and I now know the answer is not some vaginal problem with he, and the condoms don't bug her (they're her idea), and she does LIKE me, and she does LOVE me, and she is not MAD at me, and she was NOT molested as a child, and I DON'T remind her of a rapist or her dad or anything like that.

I don't know how much I want her to go out of her way to have sex; however, I mean, I don't want her to just climb into bed and spread her legs because she feels like its her "duty." That's not right or fair.

I am conforted by reading about how many people once had low sex drives for whatever reason, and then that changed; but I doubt if my W will ever be the type to leap into the air and drag me to the ground and rip my clothes off. That's just not part of her personality.

I thought I'd make a couple of quick observations. A is dead on target that sexy and pretty are not the same thing to a woman at all. And yes, hearing from my H that I am hot and desirable really gets my engine revving. BUT... if WK's W is feeling distanced from him and not in love with him, and if he's made it clear he wants sex and she's not feeling like it, then this type of comment *right now* would probably make her feel like a piece of meat at the market. Later, when they're closer, yes. Right now, no.

WK - your wife probably isn't the "lovey dovey" type because of two things: 1. Her needs aren't being met and therefore she's not inclined to meet yours and 2. She doesn't realize how important it is to meet someone else's needs even though they're different from your own needs.

For what it's worth:

I've been on this rock for quite a long time now - but never as long as JL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> - and it took me almost this long to realize a very important fact about making love to a woman. This one sentence speaks volumes if you're willing to look past the surface subtleness:

Making love to a woman is an all day job.

Guys, adopt this attitude and you may see a pay off.

Ladies, am I right?

WAT

<small>[ April 19, 2004, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

WAT...you are so right about that. Women are just wired differently than men, as everyone well knows <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ! There is so much more to intimacy than just the culminating act itself. I think that men do not require that emotional foreplay that women do. That's where my marriage has always been a little different than most and I think that therein lies the problem. My H and I act like brother and sister 90% of the time, even when we were dating.

That can be a good thing and a bad thing. I have never experienced the kind of passion with H that I did with OM. My H definetely had to take the "lead" in the sexual side of our marriage because I was totally clueless. He isn't one to experiment and OM was, but OM was strictly just getting his release from me and I know that now, without a doubt. I could have been anyone and he would have "performed" the same way. So, if I could just get the two sides of these men in one person, that would be great. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Another good one. If you want sex on Saturday night start working on Monday.

Couple of things.

Knight I really wonder what your conversations sound like with your wife. Do you tell your wife that you realize it is not a high priority for you but it is for me...we need to address this differenty?

Right now you need to focus on the revelation...but I have real hope for your marriage. You sound like you are giving up and you are not giving your wife enough credit.

Consider this, we are all creatures of habit. Majority of your wife'f life was spent in a highly dysfunctional atmoshpere. She hardly could have role-modeled after her parents...there marital relationship was not genuine. Also moving constantly can make relationships difficult. Lack of affectionate behavior is a defense mechanism.

My orignal point of this post was to say that men who marry virgins are more responsible for helping their wives define their sexuality and explore how important sexual expression is for the husband.

I do not agree that making love is an all day job when it comes to women...it is a 24/7 way of life. If you reduce sexual affection and expression to just the day you want sex that can be degrading but if you make your partner feel sexy even when sex is not an option you are nuturing your sex life.

I gaurantee this: if you think sex will be important to her indepently of you, you are wrong. And if you think she can tell you spefically what turns her on...at this point...you are wrong. Sex was not important to me until I realized how important it was to my husband. I don't crave sex for release, I crave sex because I love my husband. I enjoy pleasuring him because I love him and because it gives me confidence to know what I give him is beyond mere sex.

She loves you, Knight. Do you think it is important to her to see you happy? You really need to put in more time in all areas to see a result. I find it amazing people will share their favorite recipe, movie, geesh even the way they want the toilet paper to hang from the rack but when it comes to sex people believe because they said, Hey I like sex that should transform the blushing bride into the main attraction in a porn film. Come on a little help please!

God forbid, if something were to happen to my husband and I were unwed, I would not be dying for sex. But with him, because of him and his non judgemental, non threatening, praise filled tutoring I cannot imagine life without sex. Until him I didn't even know there was so much to it...or that it mattered to him or any man for that matter.

Get past what the OW did for you, you can pay someone to do what she did, basically you did-not with money but with non-reality.

The genuine passion and devotion you can receive from a wife who is well loved, and feels well loved is phenomenal because it is real and unconditional.


Knight...reality is coming down upon you quickly...be prepared...you can build a whole new life together...get your head on straight.


Thanks for the input, everyone.


ayslyne

ayslyne ---

Thank you for your post. Thank all of you. For the first time, I really have no reply. You really have said it all. I am going to read tis post again and again. It means a lot and makes so much sense. I wish I could send you some muffins or something. What a great help you have been. So many of you have been so much help.

You know, after the OW turned on me, I got very depresed and sort of lost a little bit of faith in humanity. I figured if someone can turn on someone else like that, what on earth can be sacred anymore? I know that seems a bit dramatic, but it how I felt. I really dig MB nd all you great people that come here and help others. It has given me a whole new view of humanity and the potential for the human heart. To think that so many people can be willing to take the time to write these posts and help one another without any chance of getting any thing in return (you know what I mean. $$$, gifts, a promotion, sex, etc) in incredible. In fact, that is why I try to be as honest as possible here, even though I think I incite more emotional outbursts than anyone! I really want my misfortune to help others.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Knight,

I am glad my words have helped you at least look at things differently.

So what do you need to know from us regarding the revelation? I am sure we have some do's and don'ts to offer.

What is your plan?


ayslyne