hurt

I think I understand where you are coming from. I feel I have been in a similar situation and have replied to your posts in the past. My H has continued having contact w/ OW unbeknownst to me while I thought he was "working" on our marriage. When I found out that he was still communicating w/ her (seeing her, sending flowers, but not sure about PA but really who cares at this point), I told him to stop communicating w/ her or get out. Since he still had his apt from the last time he moved out, he left. He now takes the girls 3 nights a week, I have them 3 nights a week and we alternate Saturdays.

I think the distance has been a good thing. I gave him a modified Plan B letter since I find it impossible to have no communication w/ him since we each want to talk to the kids every day and they don't answer the phone or make calls yet. Also, he comes to the soccer games and stuff. He talks to me like everything is normal. As far as I know, he is still communicating with OW. I have been trying not to ask about any of that and no LBs - as with Plan A.

But I was asking myself today, how long can I keep this up? Let him act like everything is OK while he has another woman on the side? The distance has made me start to think that maybe I don't need him although I do want him. I also wonder if it's really worth it at this point. After all the pain he's caused and continues to cause. How long before I could trust him again? There will ALWAYS be reminders and triggers of what happened. (Anyone know what percent of Law & Order and CSI episodes deal with wandering spouses?? Seems like most to me!)

So the distance is letting me see that maybe there can be a future... not what I had planned or wanted but there still can be. I don't have nearly as many breakdowns as when he was still in the house. I spend LOTS of time on the internet and talking to friends on the phone (incessantly as a matter of fact!)

And I just spent 5 days in FLA with my middle daughter (a previously planned trip to Disney) and getting away was great! So if you have someplace to go and get away w/ the kids I say do it. Visit a family member or something. Even start planning for the end of the school year.

In my camp, I just don't like all these mind games. I don't say that he is playing games but my mind does!! I read into everything. He borrowed the His Needs, Her Needs book - that must be good, or maybe he just wants to say he did everything he could. Maybe he just talks to me like everything is normal cause he doesn't want to make me feel bad (or worse, actually)? Thus the mind games and me wondering if it's worth it. How long before I ask again if he will NC with the OW? Cause how long do I have to put up with that??

Sorry to ramble but I guess I stored a bunch up while on vacation!

hurt, are you ok? Did you leave last night?

I am okay Melody. Yes, the kids and I spent the night at my mother's house. Which is just across town. My oldest son, 6, wanted to go home this morning to play his gamecube. I told him to call his dad to come and get him. He called and his dad came to get him. I feel crazy. Hold on....my son just called. He wanted to know when I was going to be home. I told him I would meet him at the ballpark for his baseball game. He said "I'm coming back over there." I asked him if Daddy was going to bring him and he said yes. Is this craziness ever going to end?

I still think you need to stay in the home, and he needs to go. Did you ever read the lighthouse post? It is about being the lighthouse, to show him the way home.

Right now there are lots of memories in your home, but you can change that and make new memories. I completely rearranged the house, and cleaned it sparkling. When WH comes here, he sees the change. Now he says he misses our home and the marriage.

H,

Believer is right. You need to stay in the home. Your children need that stability and security. You must get your H to leave. Tell him...if you are continuing to have any type of contact with this woman, you must leave this home NOW.

OK, now a question: have you done everything in your power to expose the affair? Who knows? Is OW married? Does her husband know? That needs to be your first step. You see, the more folks who know, the more their little fantasy world gets rocked. Tell his brothers, sisters, parents, your clergyman, anyone who is in a position to have influence on him. Do they work together? If so, tell the Human Resources people. Affairs in the workplace are frequently grounds for dismissal.

Next: Plan B. We'll help you write the letter. Do not look at this as an ending to your marriage, but as a beginning for you getting stronger. You are concerned about Plan B driving him more toward the OW. Yes, and that is a good thing. Let the two of them try to make it through the realities of life. Let OW try to meet all his needs.

Melody is absolutely right, hurt. You must make changes, and don't hold out hope just because your H has been researching jobs on the internet. That may mean nothing at all. YOU, hurt, YOU are the only one who can effect change right now.

If you want to save your marriage, if you truly love this man that much, you must take the steps that are proven to work.

I came home this afternoon to find a note. It was rather lengthy from my H. He explains why our marriage sucked so badly (Pretty much my fault for never cooking or making any decisions)and that I can't possibly love him because I have told OW's H things about him. Well, I am tired of the silence, so I called him. I told him he was wrong. I have not talked to OW's H since I said that I wouldn't. We talked a little and I finally asked him bottom line "Do you want to work on our marriage or not?" His response "Well, I guess if I want to see the kids I don't have a choice." Isn't that a S****Y answer? I told him it's not about the kids right now, it's about us. I'm losing my mind!!!! I am not going to go through this just because he wants to see his kids. What do I do?

hurt,

One more time: you do Plan B.

It's the only way. He's speaking fog-speak right now and all he can think of is the OW and the kids. Not you.

Plan B is the whole no contact thing...right? Well, that seems to kill me but not bother him at all. I tried today...We spent the night at my mother's house. I didn't talk to him at all. Oldest son had a ballgame in which I help coach. I am in the dugout and H stands with his mother right outside dugout where I have to see them every time I walk a kid out there. H seemed very happy. I am the one that was struggling to keep myself together.

hurt,

Have you read Surviving An Affair? If not, you need to - ASAP!

Yes, Plan B is no contact, but it is more than that. Please read up on it, if only, for now, on the website.

Can you see the "lesson" you are teaching your H from your refusal to demand that your life partner actually demonstrate some RESPECT for you?

Right now you are telling him he can do whatever he wants and treat you as poorly as he wants all in the name of making himself feel good if for no other reason.

If he leaves this OW of his own accord because he tires of her and you have not demanded he pay you an ounce of respect, he knows clearly, with 100% certainty, he can do this again whenever he feels like it because you won't do anything about it because you're too afraid. Is that the kind of marriage you want? You don't have a marriage, your marriage is dead. He has to want to build a NEW one. How's he ever going to want to do all that work? By finding out he's got something to lose.He can't find that out until he leaves and has the chance to find out what life will be like as divorced dad with two young children. For sure THAT is NOT a pretty picture.

Your posts are filled with desperation, anxiety and fear. Not only are those behaviors unattractive to a WS they show you haven't a clue that YOU are the one with all the power in your situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">While plan B is supposed to preserve your love for your WS and protect you from further pain, it can only work if it follows a stellar plan A. And I mean STELLAR . Without that, the WS will have no contact with only memories of what drove him to the affair in the first place. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a common misconception made by new members of the board. This is not true.

Not all WS are driven to the A because of their BS's neglect and mistreatment. Many WS find themselves in affairs because of MLC or because of personalities that are extremely ego centered.
In situations like that, little if any Plan A is needed. Sure it is always best to show WS the best BS can be, we want their recollections to be as positive as can be managed. Lovebusters should be kept to an absolute minimum. The BS should treat the WS respectfully and ensure them you will not stand in the way of their "happiness". However BS should also not lose their own self respect for that is VERY unattractive. No one is attracted to someone they can walk allover. If a WS wants to throw an active A in your face day after day with no end in sight, Plan A should be short and sweet.

In addition to SAA I highly recommend you read Dobson's Love Must be Tough

<small>[ May 01, 2004, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: mthrrhbard ]</small>

mthhr: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your posts are filled with desperation, anxiety and fear. Not only are those behaviors unattractive to a WS they show you haven't a clue that YOU are the one with all the power in your situation.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">remind you of anyone?

I read your posts hurt w/ a strong sense of deja vu.

I have posted to you before. DETACH W/ LOVE. WITHDRAW AND PRESERVE YOUR DIGNITY.

YOU CANNOT FIX HIM or YOUR MARRIAGE by yourself.

Now, know that this board recommended to me three years ago to plan B my own H... and I couldn't. Know that I spend the better part of the year in a disrespectful, degrading position out of fear and anxiety.

What changed for me? Individual counseling allowed me to draw my line in the sand.

You need to plan YOUR OWN RECOVERY. You need to focus ON YOU. Get strong. Get out of fear. Maybe check out the possibility of individual counseling.

But, you have to quit dancing the dance y'all are doing right now. Change the music. Change the steps. Your H will have no choice but to change his steps too. (though you can't ever be sure how.)

Cali

<small>[ May 01, 2004, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: Cali ]</small>

okay, we are at least talking. Sort of. He left me a long note last night and I refused to "write" a response, but I called him. We talked. He is still insistent that I betrayed him because I talked to OW's H. WHATEVER!!!! Anyway, should I plan A him even if he refuses to have NC? Or should I say to him NC or leave?
I really know the answer here. I feel like everyone here is tired of me asking the same questions. I am so afraid of giving him ultimatums because he has always been very against them. He has never done anything he was supposed to when given an ultimatum. I am however getting closer and closer to realizing the importance of tough love. I plan on getting this book tomorrow. I have always been a doormat and I think that is one of the biggest problems with our marriage. Thanks to all here on this lifesaver of a board!!!

Hi hurt,

OK. First question: do you truly understand the concept of Plan B? You need to completely grasp this before you even THINK of embarking on it.

Plan B is not just about separation. It is not just about no contact. It is about telling your husband (in writing!!!!) how much you love him and want to stay married to him, how living with his current behavior is a terrible threat to your love, and that's why you have to be out of contact with him - to protect your love as well as his.

Again, if you have not read Surviving An Affair, please don't even think about trying to go to Plan B. You need more information, you need to get more educated.

Get the book. Read it. THEN let's develop a proper plan for you, hurt.

OK?

I did leave a note last night telling him that how much I love him, but that I could not go on looking at him every night. I think it really ticked him off we (kids and I) spent the night away. I got a rather lengthy note with a lot of fog talk. In fact, the opposite of the note I got just two days ago saying how sorry he was and that none of this was my fault. However, I haven't read SAA and don't think I can do Plan B for very long. Should I try a better plan A for now?

What good will Plan A do, hurt? It is not working. Expecting different results from doing the same thing is insanity. Your Plan A is plenty good enough.

It will take Plan B to move forward here. When you are ready to move forward, you should move to Plan B. Until you do that, things will stay the same.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hurtnp:
<strong> I did leave a note last night telling him that how much I love him, but that I could not go on looking at him every night. However, I haven't read SAA and don't think I can do Plan B for very long. Should I try a better plan A for now? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">hurt, that is not a Plan B letter. If you can't do Plan B as long as it takes, then you shouldn't do it at all. The point is to set a boundary that tells them you are moving on and if he wants to join you he will have to end his affair. If you break Plan B before that happens, you have wasted your time and only hurt your credibility.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hurtnp:
<strong> Plan B is the whole no contact thing...right? Well, that seems to kill me but not bother him at all. I tried today...We spent the night at my mother's house. I didn't talk to him at all. Oldest son had a ballgame in which I help coach. I am in the dugout and H stands with his mother right outside dugout where I have to see them every time I walk a kid out there. H seemed very happy. I am the one that was struggling to keep myself together. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">hurt, this is not plan B. You just stayed away for a day, you didn't set the agenda or demand anything from him. This would have no impact on him as you can see. He knows he can do whatever he wants, when he wants and there will no consequences with you. You have no boundaries and won't defend yourself or your children from his abuse. He knows this and has no reason to worry.

You will not be able to do either plan well without having read the book first. You can read it in 2 days easy. You'll do more harm than good if you keep trying to "wing it" without really knowing why you're doing what your doing in Plan A or Plan B.

hurtnp,

How are you doing? Have you purchased the book yet? I'm hoping it's quiet on your end 'cause you are so busy reading!

Let us know, OK?

We care about how you are.