Mom I am in the exact same situation with you.. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You know what WH wants me to do? hold on to your hats guys. He wants me to wait for him for a few weeks so he can get OW out of his system </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can see what is going on with me in this thread....

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=027835;p=18

I know your pain and would like to keep following your story ... especially the great advice you are getting...I was doing a waffling Plan B but after yesterday's episode with WS have decided to go dark...WS did tell a friend he missed me terribly when I do not have contact with him...so guess that is the way to go now

mom - Do not worry, redhat will figure something out. Your H is still addicted. Don't take it personally. Email me at digsblues@aol.com. I have some ideas too.

Mom, I'm sorry to hear about D2's pathetic state right now. I was thinking about you both at the MB weekend. Just a question for you. Is D2 actually still seeing the "B", talking to her on the phone, etc.? Or is he just fantasizing about his great LOVE for her? I'm asking because our situations have had similarities. My H has kept to NC for almost 6 weeks. His withdrawal and missing OW has caused me to want to kick him out about twice a week. He doesn't verbalize it all to me, but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to see when he is grieving her. I pretty much blasted him yesterday, telling him I don't need to see his glumness every day. He wants to talk to me because I am his best friend. I told him he needs to talk to other people, or come here, to discuss his withdrawal. I can deal with some of it, but not every day.

Now my H isn't asking to go back to OW. I THINK he is realizing she wasn't such a great person. Does your H really want to go to OW, or is he just having trouble giving up the fantasy of the perfect R?

If you need another e-mail support buddy let me know. I am wishing you the very best. There is only so much we can take. Maybe your H needs a major wake-up call to knock him off his pedestal. CV

Well, I have to say this truely stinks!

I was waiting anxiously to hear about the weekend, and this was the last thing I expected. Especially when he agreeded to go on this weekend at all!

I am sure your mind is reeling. I do not remember if you have been on anti-d's, but I would especially recomend them NOW.

I recently started the lexipro and my anxiety has been brought down 85% adn this has resulted in almost complete elimination of all LB'ing. I have been able to tell him calmly when I am getting needy, but that has been alot less too. and it works quickly!

I guess what you have to focus on is you and the boys. Start buliding a happy life with the 4 of you and let him fit you in once he sees you won't need him any more!

I know, easier said that done!

My WH is pulling the same stuff. He believes that his presence is enough to "work on" our marriage. I have backed off, but the MC is doing a good job of pushing him a bit.

You know we are there for you, keep up with MC and IC.

This really sucks! Take care of yourself first so you can be the best Mom to 3 that you can!

S.

I am overwhelmed once again by the amount of support you guys show us. Well, I suppose it is mostly me, since Dad has his head stuck up his a$$ still! Makes some people wonder how you can love someone like this so much. And that is precisely why I come to this board..because you all ARE there, have been there and KNOW what I am going thru. When my friends ask how things are going I will usually say "fine" and leave it at that. They dont know the Fog and all the stuff that goes with it. I have a very good friend in Dallas that can relate..not because her H had an affair, but she understands this...she has read up on it and she listens to me. I have pretty much cut off my email from people. I rearely read the emails that come thru. Just dont have the energy to respond to people and explain it all.

ANYWAY, on another note. Lets see...first off, rh, do you think I did ok with my boundry setting for dad? I was firm with him and I think he KNOWS I am dead serious about this. I am not playing games any longer. I did the best Plan A and it is not working and now I must get tough! He knows it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is he serious??</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yes he is serious...rh and I were dumbfounded. He was dead serious. Didn't cringe one bit. Like "why cant I just go out and screw her for a few weeks while you (me) wait in the background for me" WHAT?? I nearly had to pick myself up off the floor! I looked at rh and looked back at H. I explained to him that if he does that, he is not welcome back into my life...he couldn't understand that...is this what they call FOGESE?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I think he was more in the FOG on Sunday IN FRONT OF RH than he has been the whole A! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I cannot relate to the "fog" stuff that is mentioned. I dont understand an educated person that actually thinks his spouse is so dense that she would say "Sure Honey go play with your Girlfriend, Just dont be late for dinner"
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">that's just it, it doesn't matter how educated you are. I know we expect people like this to be poor, homeless, dead beat, whatever...but this is a man who has gone to school for 24 plus years and earns a butt load of money each year. His 'addiction' has taken over his mind and thinking. He is not capable of doing the right thing right now. That is why I have given him a two week deadline! make sense?

I am still learning this MB stuff and still dont understand it fully, but the more stupid things my WH does, the more I learn. he is not my H right now, he is back to being the WH. Steve really explained a lot on Saturday to me and is trying to make me see what he is doing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It was 6:30 in the am...
I was reading some posts before the short people get up....

took my first sip of coffee....and read wats statement...

The aliens on the Mothership are salivating.

and spit coffee all over my monitor....
damn...

momto...
still confused but getting clearer...just have to clean the monitor first..

did you tell your husband he has two weeks to get with the program...

or is that an internal timeline...unbeknownest to him...

if he knows he has two weeks...won't he just sabotage to remove his responsibility and be able to blame you?

before WAT cracked the case with the alien connection..I was concerned that he recently hit his frontal lobe rather hard....but WAT solved it for us...

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, he does know about the two week deadline. One thing he tried to do to me during our fight on Saturday night was he tried to HATE him. He was mean to me, ridiculed me, I was hysterical...but you see, I am not capable of hating someone I love. He wanted an excuse and to blame me. But it wont work. The two weeks is for him to get his act together and to start letting me fill his EN's. NOT for him to figure this entire thing out and to be NORMAL again. That will take YEARS. He wants to do the right thing..he wants to be with his kids and stay in the M beacause I am the mother of his children, but there are three people in our marriage right now. OW is standing right in the middle. She is blocking ME from getting to my H heart. Therefore, she is giving all the filling of EN's to my H still. He needs to figure out whether he is going to let ME fill those needs or continue to let her fill them. I am fine either way, but in the next two weeks, I must withdraw myself and go back to dealing with the WH. I have to protect myself from further pain. Please ask me any questions, cuz I am obviously NOT very good at explaining things <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

If in the next two weeks he is still very stoic and not responding to me filling his ENs and not committed to "WORKING" on the marriage he will be out of the house. He knows this. He is scared right now. He is trying right now. yesterday I had a hard time letting HIM into my heart, but today I am better. He knows what he has to do, now can he do it.

He took the first CD to work with him and he is going to listen to it. We will be doing the first lesson this week together...plus sign right?

For anyone who wants me to email them...I will be glad to, cuz I need all the support I can get...

also my MSN name is kcav86@msn.com....BUt dont email me there, I never check it. that is my IM screen name! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Momto3

Been following your story. ((((Hugs for you))).

Thought things were coming around. Was shocked (kind of) to see this thread.

Can't believe your WH saved up all this crap to dump on you at an MB weekend. Although I suppose it's better that it happened this way...so others could see it and support you better going forward.

Maybe this was a cry for help from WH? ...I mean with his personality type, you wouldn't think he would *dump* all this stuff in public...expose himself in front of others. What an *ss!

Stay strong!

sss

MOm, it was nice to meet you in the MB weekend. I heard what he said to you. I couldn't believe my ears, I thought he was joking.

But on the other hand, I thought that he is being honest to you, do not take me wrong, I am not saying what he thought and did were right. But at least he is open. Because in my case, I even don't know what my Wh thought and want. I have to guess. I have no clue where I am. We are supposed to do our first lesson tonight, wehter we will do it, I don't know.

I don't have much advice to give you. But you can have my support always. Lots of love and hugs.

Mom, you're getting great advice about how to handle the situation. I'm not going to focus on that just now, but rather on something ugly that's showing up in almost all your posts: Disrespect.

Dad has his head stuck up his a$$ still!

Disrespectful Judgment.

Makes some people wonder how you can love someone like this so much.

Sarcasm, selfish demand.

They dont know the Fog and all the stuff that goes with it.[b]

Disrespectful judgment. (YES, "the fog" is a DJ, though it is extremely common on this board and does describe an emotional/mental state very well.)

[b]I have pretty much cut off my email from people. I rearely read the emails that come thru. Just dont have the energy to respond to people and explain it all.

Would you cut people off if you had found out that Dad had cancer or heart disease? Please, take the time to reach out to ONE person who loves you today.

I am not playing games any longer. I did the best Plan A and it is not working and now I must get tough! He knows it.

You must get tough? Or you must simply protect yourself? Who is this really about, Mom? Is it for YOU and your health, or is it to punish Dad?

I explained to him that if he does that, he is not welcome back into my life...he couldn't understand that...is this what they call FOGESE?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I think he was more in the FOG on Sunday IN FRONT OF RH than he has been the whole A! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Rolling your eyes is disrespectful.

His 'addiction' has taken over his mind and thinking. He is not capable of doing the right thing right now.

Disrespectful judgment.

That is why I have given him a two week deadline! make sense?

Well, no, it doesn't make sense to me. If you have given YOURSELF a two week deadline, that's fine. As in -- "I will ask for change for another two weeks. If I haven't seen it, then I will change."

Very different than saying, "You have to change and if you don't then you have to leave."

The first is all about you, control of your self, and your own boundaries.

The second is a selfish demand with a threat of punishment.

...the more stupid things my WH does

Disrespectful judgment.

...I am not capable of hating someone I love...

Of course you're not... but it's hard to see the love sometimes with so much anger and disrespect being thrown around.

NOT for him to figure this entire thing out and to be NORMAL again. That will take YEARS.

Disrespectful judgment. Sometimes it takes people days to figure it out, sometimes weeks or months, and yes, sometimes years. We don't know what it'll take with Dad yet.

He needs to figure out whether he is going to let ME fill those needs or continue to let her fill them.

Selfish demand.

If in the next two weeks he is still very stoic and not responding to me filling his ENs and not committed to "WORKING" on the marriage he will be out of the house...

Where's the no contact thing? That's what you need in two weeks. The rest can come later. Until there's no contact, though, the rest will fail every time.

Mom, I'm not saying anything here to try to convince you to stay in a bad situation. I'm trying to get you to see your own thought processes and get through to a better you.

I would prefer to see you in Plan B until the affair ends... I would prefer to see Dad here and getting help. I would prefer a lot of things. What I would like most, though, is for you to start REALLY learning what it means to have and use control -- of self.

Mom, I don't post much but have been keeping up with your story. I didn't find MB until after my husband finally admitted and apologized for his affair. Because of much prayer, God changed my husband's heart completely.

Several thoughts came to my mind last night. My husband is also in a medical profession. When asked why he didn't leave to be with the OW, he told me that men he knew who had left their wives always regretted it later. He always wanted to be able to come back. Doesn't your husband know plenty of other doctors who have been married numerous times? I know of one doctor in the Houston area who has been married five times and has children with at least two of those wives that I know of.

Have you ever been to the nursing home where your husband works? I stayed away from my husband's work after he changed jobs. I knew they were incredibly busy and didn't want to get in the way. But the people there didn't get to know me so they didn't try to protect me. The people who knew me were trying their best to sabotage his affair. I just don't see how people could actually see three boys with their mother and still think the dad should be with another woman.

It also amazes me that people with so much medical knowledge could put themselves and their spouse at risk for sexual diseases.

Mom, are you a Christian? I believe that God can soften and change a hard heart. I don't know everything He did during my husband's affair, but at one time both of our cars broke down before I was driving my daugther across the country to college. I knew God was involved, but couldn't explain it at the time. My husband told me later that the incident was a real wake up call. He took off work and drove with us and we had a wonderful family trip together.

We lost so much because of my husband's affair. I even had to leave my beloved state of Texas trying to save my marriage. He lost job benefits, his reputation, and much more. I hope your husband comes to his senses and realizes what he could lose.

songbird

I dont have much time right now to respond to much..but one thing caught my eye. Just J...please do not take this the wrong way, but I must point this out, because it is quite ironic you have used this as an example!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Would you cut people off if you had found out that Dad had cancer or heart disease? Please, take the time to reach out to ONE person who loves you today.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As a matter of fact, my dad does have cancer. He was diagnosed a year and 1/2 ago. And yes, basically I do NOT answer emails regarding my dad. It is VERY painful to talk about it. When I talk about it to people I ask for their respect in not bombarding me with questions and advice on the subject. The same thing goes for THIS...meaning the infidelity I am dealing with. I do not talk about with my friends. Mainly because they do NOT understand it, how can you if you haven't been there done that, and it is very painful to answer all their questions. I feel as if I am wasting my much needed energy trying to explain something to people who franky dont understand and who judge either me or my H. I am sorry if this sounds selfish of me, or harsh...but I dont need people judging me or my H. I need people who are going to support me and my H in our decisions...that is why I come to this board. You all understand me and my H and what we are going thru. I take your advice to heart. A friend of mine can sit there say say "why is he doing this, or why dont you just do this"...they dont get it and I dont have the energy to explain it to them over and over again. Plus if one email comes thru a million do. How much energy am I supposed to put out to 20 different people. I have lead a lot of people to this board so they can read what I am going thru. Most of the people I have lead, mainly my mom and my dear friend in Dallas understand all of this. They steer clear of the questions.

Point being, we all handle things differently and I usually retreat into my shell. That is just the way I am. It is too painful to live thru day in and day out and then on top of that to have to explain it all to many different people who dont understand it...Who think it is bs that my H is an addict or that he is in a FOG or that he should just be able to STOP it and why he did this and that. I hope you understand this a bit better now. I am late for my appt. I will be back later to answer everyone questions.

Thank you once again for all your tremendous support!

Mom,

I've been following your story and I must say I was shocked to read this post. I mean, it was obvious that WH was not willing to ditch the nursing home gig but I thought he was going when OW wasn't there, or having someone accompany him on rounds, etc.

You have worked SO HARD and I really thought the light was beginning to creep in with your WH. I know a lot of WS backslide... it's apparent now that he HAS to give up the NH gig and take extraordinary NC precautions <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I think you're doing a great job of setting boundaries. You seem to know you love him and want your H but you won't stand for being treated this disrespectfully any longer. You've learned, you're improving. He can choose to accompany you on this growth experience or not (at least that's what I get from your posts).

Your post is filled with anger, pain, shock, disbelief - all completely understandable! Right now you would do well to heed what Just J had to say. When we are hurt and angry, we are all prone to LB. Right now if you LB it will just support WH's notion that y'all can't work it out or that OW might be the "right" person for him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <- yeah, it's a DJ; so sue me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Vent here, keep your LBs under control. Stick to your boundaries.

Hi Mom,

My suggestion .... let him leave, and go into the strictest of Plan B's. Your Plan B letter is very important and needs to detail precisely what you'll require to rebuild the marriage. Then go dark and stay there until those requirements are met.

I know how hard this is to let him go again, but your WH is fence sitting while eating cake in the fog. This affair needs to die it's OWN natural death. And this is the only way, else you could be bouncing back and forth for God knows how long with the OW still in the middle. And what's worse yet is you are in jeopardy of losing all love for your husband.

My prayers,
Jo

momto3boys,

You are doing really good on Sunday. He needs to air it out and be honest then we know what we are dealing with and point out the false logic in it. You weren't LB'ng and you showed him that you believe in this M and him but you don't put up with his A no more. He got the point that you love H but not in-love with WH <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> !. He needs to see the pain, hurt and anger that he 've caused w/o LB'ng.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think he was more in the FOG on Sunday IN FRONT OF RH than he has been the whole A! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I dunno somehow I make people comfortable to open up to me. I don't judge people and I have 2 ears and seldom used mouth. Also that delicious chicken tandori & nan bread might have tenderized his tounge <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . I think it was earlier than that, could have been the dim sum.

Actually my original plan was to have Orchid or Lulu to pull you away from him and let me talk to him. However both of them could not make it and I have a feeling that he would loosen up after China town trip. I am sorry that I subject you to his fogesse but you are doing great. Many BS would have pour that chai tea on him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

-rh-

Oh man! Did you take everyone to our restaurant RH??? Darn. Cursed computer problems.

Anyway...Hi Mom23Boys! Sorry I couldn't meet y'all in person. I'd love to talk to you - get my email from Orchid or Redhat and we can talk about a Plan B. My STBXH tried the same scheme - cake eating! That was until I exposed his affair to everyone who would listen... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> momto3boys
Member
Member # 33724

posted May 04, 2004 10:45 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont have much time right now to respond to much..but one thing caught my eye. Just J...please do not take this the wrong way, but I must point this out, because it is quite ironic you have used this as an example!


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would you cut people off if you had found out that Dad had cancer or heart disease? Please, take the time to reach out to ONE person who loves you today.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a matter of fact, my dad does have cancer. He was diagnosed a year and 1/2 ago. And yes, basically I do NOT answer emails regarding my dad. It is VERY painful to talk about it. When I talk about it to people I ask for their respect in not bombarding me with questions and advice on the subject. The same thing goes for THIS...meaning the infidelity I am dealing with. I do not talk about with my friends. Mainly because they do NOT understand it, how can you if you haven't been there done that, and it is very painful to answer all their questions. I feel as if I am wasting my much needed energy trying to explain something to people who franky dont understand and who judge either me or my H. I am sorry if this sounds selfish of me, or harsh...but I dont need people judging me or my H. I need people who are going to support me and my H in our decisions...that is why I come to this board. You all understand me and my H and what we are going thru. I take your advice to heart. A friend of mine can sit there say say "why is he doing this, or why dont you just do this"...they dont get it and I dont have the energy to explain it to them over and over again. Plus if one email comes thru a million do. How much energy am I supposed to put out to 20 different people. I have lead a lot of people to this board so they can read what I am going thru. Most of the people I have lead, mainly my mom and my dear friend in Dallas understand all of this. They steer clear of the questions.

Point being, we all handle things differently and I usually retreat into my shell. That is just the way I am. It is too painful to live thru day in and day out and then on top of that to have to explain it all to many different people who dont understand it...Who think it is bs that my H is an addict or that he is in a FOG or that he should just be able to STOP it and why he did this and that. I hope you understand this a bit better now. I am late for my appt. I will be back later to answer everyone questions. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These people are supposed to be your friends though. I'm sorry I just don't understand your reasoning behind this.

If you aren't willing to help someone understand something....then they won't understand it.

It's like going to an interview and them telling you that you don't have the experience for the job....how are you supposed to "get" the experience if no one will hire you.

Being friends I'm sure they want to understand as much as possible as to what's going on.

Sorry....just MHO....but I just don't get it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by *LULU*:
<strong> Oh man! Did you take everyone to our restaurant RH??? Darn. Cursed computer problems.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I brought them to where miss B <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> took me. It is different Indian style of cooking and more selections.

Hey, your computer problem you brought it upon yourself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . You don't need to upgrade it last weekend, I knew you weren't going to make it. To make you feel better, their nan bread is not as good as ours. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

Sorry mt3b, thread jack ... -rh-

I am so overwhelmed righ tnow. I am sick to my stomach. I feel it coming. I think I have given up. I dont want to give up...Why do I feel this way. Part of me just wants him to go be with OW but then part of me says, are you nuts...I asked him if he was really serious about what he said this weekend and he said well, yes, but I know it is not realistic. Oh this conversation went on for an hour at least. got absolutely no where.

I am taking a breather for a few and then will check back in. deep breath!

momto..

time to ground yourself...really ground yourself..

you are forgetting the basics...and you are going to run yourself in to exhaustion and back yourself in to a corner...

this is not about enabling WS behavior...(and I really do appreciate redhats point of this as he has met you both...so the rest of us will continue to flounder with ya....)

but there are things that are true no matter what...and don't enable but follow some logic...


1. You can't control or make him do anything...even if he is in contact....there is nothing you can do about it...it will reveal itself...one way or another.....

2. the fact when people point out LB's to you does not discount that you are doing a good job...drop the defenses that we are attacking all of your interactions...and pray for an open mind and clarity to hear what people are telling you...

3. NO matter the issue...NO matter the subject matter if you can not approach your husband in good control...(and not manipulative control...which I am a master at...you know the kind of control where you set them up to fail...but make it look you are innocent or just figuring something out...)....

if you can't do that then you are probably better off not discussing at all..at that time...

4. power struggling is futile...do not do it...

5. do not call your husband at work except to be kind and pleasant...make that a rule....a life long marriage rule...which doesnt mean you can't share a bad day with him...you can..but you can't expect a productive conflict resolution phone call...
not fair to him....

6.. I am shocked that you have given him a verbal two weeks....while i can understand an internal time limit...because each human has the right to say when enough is enough....but to tell them your time frame...not sure what it does....

7. You agreed to work on rebuilding also...that requires you to seek compassion...and again not saying you haven't done this at all...but even when discussing anger and painfull things......you both need to strive for that safe environment...this can crumble easily at any time....
if you are losing site of any good qualities in your husband at all...then you need to withdrawl and regroup...or it will unravel....

pray for serinity...
pray for clarity...
turn to God hard....
seek his Grace to guide you....

ARK

Ark,

I am with you. In the past month, I learned a lot, especially be open minded, calm and peaceful. I learned not to expect, but hope, have faith on GOD.

Mom, one thing I read in Michell Davis's book was a time guide line: it take about a month for each year you married to get back on track. If you are married 12 years, it will usually take 12 months. For me it is longer, 15 months. Because it took so many years for the M to slip down to this stage. I do get a lot of good advices from your thread. You are very lucky. I know that it is very overwhelming when you get too many. But they are all good for you.

M2-3B,

For what it is worth, listen to Ark. She is giving you the most concise advice. You have a lot of MBers posting to you that it can make your head swim.

Step back and breathe. What did you learn in your MB class about educating a WS? Is it usually a recommended step when his ears are plugged up?

Stay off all R talk for now. Let him simmer down. Even though he talked foggy this weekend, he is still talking. You have to realize where the good, bad and ugly reside. Try looking at things from another perspective instead of dead on with a shot gun approach.

I know you are disappointed and hurt because he isn't getting it. He can't, not yet. Despite his intelligence, this A is an illness that is cleverly disguised. He can win the Nobel Prize and still be in the fog regarding his family and M.

Each communication you have with him makes you more disappointed and you will soon throw in that towel sooner than you should if you keep it up.

Please go back and read Ark's latest post. Let it sink in and then respond. Both of you had a lot thrown at you 2 this weekend and you are each reacting differently. Also you are both frustrated that the other isn't condoning each other's actions.

Step back, breathe and calm down. Realize that for now he will be a jerk. If he likes jerkdom, then plan B when you are stronger may be a viable option. Jerkdom is not a safe place to be and will eventually cause him not to be safe in other aspects of his life. But the choice to be a jerk is his. Don't make it for him.

Can you do that? Recall what you learned at the class. We didn't discuss that much Saturday night and for that I apologize. I know you all may feel that my H isn't as advanced in R as he s/b. Yet I feel safe in offering him to speak with your H if you think it will help. Sometimes it is easier to see the degree of wrong when it is on someone else. WS are quite quick in judging the errors of others. Knowing this can be an effective tool in helping you deal with him.

I generally don't try to accuse a person. If I want to make a point, I try to do it without a headon approach. I save that headon approach when I really need it.

You got some lemons there, make lemonade. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope this helps.
L.