My situation just doesn't seem to get any easier.

All along through this ordeal, WW has said that if our M ends, it won't be due to the A. I actually believe this to some extent because of the problems we had before the A. Nothing abusive mind you, just that we had really grown apart. No passion, little sex, no intimate conversation: we were roommates and nothing more. None of her needs/my needs were being met for years (she says at least 5 years). Anyways, my eyes have been opened. 8 months ago, I never even heard of an emotional connection. Now, after all this sh*t, I truely believe I can meet Ws every need.

The problem is this: She won't let me in. The A has shown her exactly what she has been missing and wanting. It'sshown her just how much she has "fallen out of Love" with me. She says A is over;NC for at least 3 weeks (who knows?). She just doesn't know if she wants me to fill those needs. I had neglected her needs for SO long,I may never get the chance to "make good". She says for her to recommit, she would have to see me as a totally different person, which I think I am.

I asked her what she wanted out of MC and she said it might be better for both of us to talk to one person together (a positive) and that she may need someone to tell her that as far as our M is concerned, there is nothing left (big negative). I believe she's rediscovered her passion and is very affraid that if she recommits, she'll never get it back again, like she doesn't trust me to be a changed person.

Other stuff: When I called her to see how her day was going, she said "you never do that, it doesn't seem natural, almost fake". I did however get her to admit that she did still love me a little (that's why she's still here). I just can't believe we don't deserve another chance. Comments?? I just can't get to her heart

She sounds very typical of a WS still coming out of the fog - assuming that she has, in fact, stopped seeing OM.

Correct, if the marriage ends, it will not be because of the affair.

BUT -----> the affair and its remnants are PREVENTING marriage recovery!!!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She just doesn't know if she wants me to fill those needs. I had neglected her needs for SO long,I may never get the chance to "make good". She says for her to recommit, she would have to see me as a totally different person, which I think I am. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very, very typical.

In your own words, communicate this:

"This experience has given me a HUGE wake-up call and I intend for my changes to be permanent. We have nothing to lose by giving it a try. We have EVERYTHING to lose if we DON'T try."

This is the very same logic I applied when I chose as my MB name...

worthatry

<small>[ May 14, 2004, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Sounds very familiar. My WH and I were more like "best friends" before A--we got along fine but avoided our "intimacy" problems. On D-day when my WS informed me that he wanted a separation/divorce, he also said it had nothing to do with the A. Don't believe for a minute. It has everything to do with A. And while WSs may say that they finally "feel in love again"--it's not real and won't last.

My advice here is Plan A, Plan A, Plan A. It's difficult at first, because WS won't let you near. And at first my WH would get irritated and make comments like (Oh, now after all this time..well it's too late). Also, I believe it makes them very uncomfortable and feel guilty because they are getting this EN from OP. And at first it does seem contrived, but it gets more natural feeling. All the little things DO ADD UP AND COUNT.

At first WH was adement about not coming back, because he couldn't "give up what he now has" and a couple needs "chemistry" blah, blah, blah. But he is starting to come out of the fog and see the possibility of us working it out. So keep to Plan A.

WAT...my man,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "This experience has given me a HUGE wake-up call and I intend for my changes to be permanent. We have nothing to lose by giving it a try. We have EVERYTHING to lose if we DON'T try."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This was my EXACT response. I just find it hard to believe that this is all FOG talk considering the problems in the M before the A. That's what I'm so scared about. At what pont are things beyond repair??

FE hopeful.....what's your sitch right now??? Your scenario seems very similar to mine...Any MC??

She is likely still rationalizing the reasons for her affair. She HAS to conclude that the marriage was a lost cause to ease her mind. To pour herself into a full on recovery try requires more humbleness than she is currently able to muster.

Very, very typical.

But this doesn't mean she won't come around.

You have to continue to show your improvements and show them consistently.

WAT

here is a website my H now frequents http://www.romantic-tips.com/romantictips.shtml
I too thought it was fake when he kicked it up a notch. For 9 years I have not been a priority, now however I am glad we are both loving each other the way we need. I had an A, with my H BF, my BF H, it is a hard place to be, the guilt and shame and regret has me down, I want to make my M work and it will. You swoon that WS court her, love her like she wants to be loved. Sounds like she is still in the fog, not a good place, but believe me it seems like reality, but after NC the fog will lift and she will feel as deeply foolish and sorry as I. Good luck to you, hang in there.

WAT is right! WW needs to rationlize her actions--she WILL come around.

WH and I went to 2 MC sessions (WH didn't like first counselor because she dismissed his affair as "fantansy land"). In both sessions, WH said that there was ABSOLUTELY nothing that I could do, no changes that I could make that would ever make him love me again or even make him want to try to repair our marriage. He really only went to MC so that he could tell everyone he tried.

I continue MC on my own and it helps. Also convinced WH to go an A-Ds and this really helped. He said that he now has the ability to think things through (how he "has let down family") without shutting down.

Plan A seems to be working. We are meeting on Sunday to discuss action/plan each other has in mind for making marriage work. He says he is still skeptical because of "all the years" that he felt so empty. He's afraid that I won't be able to make permenent changes and then we will have to go through this again 2 years down the line (and he will have given up "true love"). But we have come a long way in the past few months.

BE PATIENT (it's a roller coaster ride)and continue PLAN A!

Alright kids....thanks for your posts. Asked W last night if she had spoken with OM. She told me yes, all after telling me I had to trust her and that there had been NC for 4 weeks. More lies. She called him when she discovered that I was about to call OMW (she wanted to give him a heads up--contact #1)).I tried to reach this woman but was unable. My workphone number showed on his caller ID so he called my wife to check. W said, yes that's him. OM then wanted to call me to tell me the A was over, but W told him no (contact #2).
Ws been snooping a lot lately, going through my car, my dresser, etc. Says she thinks I'mup to something. Well I am. W found exposure letter that I wrote to OMW but haven't delivered yet. Was not happy to find it.

Next step appears to be the hand delivery of this letter to OMW. I want to trust WW when she says it's over with OM. I want to trust her when she says OMW knows,I want to trust her when she says she's been in NC for 4 weeks, Unfortunately, I can't. Ideas??

You can assume that OM's wife has been warned that a lunatic make try to contact her, accusing OM of all sorts of nasty deeds and DON'T BELIEVE A WORD HE SAYS!!!

Take it to the bank.

This does not mean you shouldn't do it - it just requires that you be able to share solid evidence to refute the "explanation" she has already received.

Do it as soon as possible. Your hesitation already has put you in this less than desirable position - the affairees knowing of your intent.

WAT

The exposure must occur, for some info on doing that see WAT's post http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=028452 Have the evidence with you in case you are not believed or the OM has already painted you out to be a lunatic.

My WW was upset at my interferencee/snooping too. She actually said: "If I find you snooping again it's over!" As if snooping were a worse offence than infidelity. It just meant that she was still in contact with the OM.

My WW is still in contact with the OM and is actually moving into her own house in a few days and wants to borrow my truck to do so. She rationalized things as yours did. I am preparing for a long plan B......everything she says points toward a plan D.

Time will tell.

You sound like your marriage is in better shape than mine. Good luck.