Hi. I really need some advice about what step to take now. Recap--found out about EA/possible PA in October with revelations about the PA until January of this year. I asked for no contact beyond professional level and no one on one chats. He appeared to be doing well--we were talking more, feeling more connected. I was working hard at processing the A and trying to figure out where I went wrong, where he went wrong and what we would do to fix things.

On Sunday, I found an email that revealed that he still loves her, and loves her even more, can't wait to talk to her again, blah blah blah. At the end of the note, he told her that he would delete the email so that I wouldn't find it. The weird computer gods did not delete the email and I found it.

I was floored and devastated again. I swear that I felt like evertything that we had worked on, all of the tears, pain talking etc. was worthless.

We talked and I can't go on like this anymore. Yesterday he realized that he was not trustworthy--he can't seem to control or understand himself--and he doesn't deserve me. He had been phoning her a few times (from the mall so that I wouldn't catch the call on redial, and has been chatting with her (in groups he says) about common interests they share (a community band).

I went to an emergency therapy appointment and it was helpful to me. I don't feel like I am falling apart anymore and I need to have a plan or at least be thinking of a plan.

He tells me he loves me and can't understand himself. He sounds immature to me and has not totally understood the pain and devastation he has caused me.

I feel like I don't have anything left to give this marriage. I gave my all in the last 6 months but I am nearing the end of my patience.

Can you advise me/help me with a plan?
Thanks,
Sandy

I have just been through the very same thing and I can really sympathise with you. It really destroys you to think you were getting somewhere and then find out it was all a big fake.

For me it was the last straw and I wrote a letter to OWH informing him of ongoing contact. He was supposed to have already known about the A, but clearly the OW had lied to my H about how much she had told her H. I have read that this is often the case.

I really wish I had done this a long time ago, because the OW went crazy at my H and told him to leave her alone. Exposure really showed her true colours and made her realise that I do exist and I’m not afraid to protect my marriage. It also brought out my H’s protectiveness of me, when she started to call me all the names.

Even with all this happening, H was still very reluctant to send a NC letter. This broke me. I could no longer carry on trying to rely on promises, I needed action.

I posted on the recovery board ‘Is a NC letter necessary?’ and H read all the replies. After a few days, he agreed to do it. The letter was finally sent two days ago. OW was told that H will no longer lie to me and so I would know if contact was attempted. I believe that she is now afraid of me enough, not to try and renew contact.

OP’s are rarely prepared to face the consequences of their actions and if no-one is protecting them, it will make them think twice.

Although I know we have a very long way to go, the letter has given me the strength I needed to attempt recovery again. I know I simply could not go on without it.

I think it will be some time before H will understand the pain and devastation. When the fog really lifts, it will hurt like hell.

It is just my opinion, but if I were you, I wouldn’t wait any longer to expose the A to OWH. It can cause a real storm, but sometimes you need to take two steps back, before you can move forward.

Hope this helps.

Hi Sandigirl, I agree with Horizon, you must expose and that is best done in Plsn A when you can repair some of the damage. There are several threads dealing with exposure with a recent one by Worthyofatry (WAT). 1st exposure should be to the OWH, that might be enough.

There is a sample exposure letter on Penny Tupy's site on Saving your Marriage Central and ChristyV has posted one she sent to her husbands employer.

Good luck.

Have you exposed the A to everyone? Are you in position to go into Plan B?

Thanks to everyone who responded. I have already exposed the A to OWH on the day that I found out. It is not the OW who is doing the calling--it is my H.

This morning, I told H that my bottom line is if there is contact again then I want a separation. I have the means to support my family and keep my home on my own if it comes to that.

I asked him to consider cutting out one musical group (he is in 4 bands--that means often 4 nights a week for practices (2 - 3 hours each, (this is where he met OW and she is still in these bands) and sometimes more if there are shows, gigs, and concerts. This was met with stiff resistance. I explained that we needed to spend more time together and that cutting out one band would show me his committment to our marriage and give us more time together. I got back "this music is my life, it is my special talent--you might as well ask me to cut off my left arm." I know that he has gone to university to be a musician and gave up music for 15 years as we raised our family. Now he is back in the music business, works part time and my salary keeps us going. He lives the life of riley for crying out loud! He chose his current job so that it would work around his band practice schedules. Maybe I don't quite understand his need (to play)but I am having a really hard time with it. He says we have 4 other nights of the week to go out and be together. Do you think that I am asking too much? Am I being selfish?

On Sunday when I confronted him with the email letter to OW, he said he would do anything to keep our marriage together including giving up his music--he loved me that much. Different story today though.

I asked him to write a NC letter and he struggled to write some bland letter that basically told her nothing for 40 minutes and then gave up. I was crushed and i guess I still am.

In my heart of hearts I am beginning to believe that he loves her and puts her needs (privacy etc.) before my requests for NC. I am losing respect and love for this man by the minute, although I know that I love the man inside but I don't feel like the most important things in his life anymore--it is his music and her.

I feel so down, and am crying as I type this, I have no tears left anymore==just a gaping hole where my heart used to be.

Please help me.
Sandy

Sandy, I think this situation is ripe for Plan B. It looks like you have been doing this since January and I strongly suspect that contact has never ended, he has only become sneakier.

And I would also point out that this is why no contact is impertive. Calling contact "business" or whatever, is still contact and is only an excuse to carry on the affair.

Have you read about Plan B? How could you execute Plan B?

Have you contacted her H again to show him the email and tell him what is happening?

Seems to me like you are in a very hopeful situation. I think I would tell H that the present situation is not working for you. Tell him you do not want him to give up his music, but NC with OW is a must.

Then give him a Plan B letter and have him move out. The letter should be something like:

Musicman -

I am sorry for my mistakes that caused you to have an A. I didn't realize that our marriage was that bad.
I love you and always thought we would stay married for life. To protect my love for you, I desire no contact with you, unless OW is completely out of your life. I need some time to think things over.

So write the Plan B letter and post it on MB. Folks here will help you refine it. And don't worry where he will go - that is his problem. We even have one WH living in a tent in the yard.

Thanks to all for helping me out at this difficult time. I laughed at the idea of H sleeping in a tent in the backyard with his arms around his trumpet, shivering in the cold. I love that image! Thanks for making me laugh when I feel like my face might crack.

Honestly, my therapist says I have to detach and take care of myself. If I feel like talking , do it, I should be calling all the shots now--and I finally stood up for myself (meaning asking for more time together) and it was shot down and he was mad. Too bad. I feel secretly pleased that I am not worrying that I made him mad. This may be a good thing! Empowerment.

I really am feeling that I am on the rollercoaster--it is me that always starts important conversations about our relationship and if they turn out badly then i have "ruined a nice morning" etc.

I need a bit of help understanding his point. He says that for the past 6 months he has really been trying (and there definitely has been more talking, touching, time spent together etc.) and that I should not let a few phone calls, chats and an email (professing his love for her, how he wishes he was with her, how he wishes he could hug her etc.) overide his past efforts. This suggests that he doesn't really understand what this has done to me.

Plan B is looking inviting. I feel so torn down and defeated--my H is looking forward to June when I get a raise and a considerable amount of money will be freed up to spend on recreational activities etc. that will give us opportunity to connect. To me, I can barely think about next week.

I think I am dreadfully unhappy with a man that I cannot trust. He can be a very nice guy but does not respect me. His need to speak to her overides my need for NC. There it is--in black and white. He knew, he said, how that phone contact would hurt me (if I ever found out)BUT he really wanted to talk to her to find out how her knee surgery had gone the day before. What does this tell you/me? The email (professing his love, deleted so I wouldn't find it) was written this past weekend--Oh God, why is this happening to me?

More tears, more pain, more despair. Do you really feel better in Plan B? I feel numb from the pain.

How do I get Plan B info? I seriously need to consider it.

Can anyone tell me how successful Plan B was for you? What are the positives and the negatives?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Sandy

Plan B is great. It really helps the BS. You will feel at peace and calm. You will get stronger and stronger. It also allows the WS to miss you, and realize the mess they have made.

The other thing is that if you have done a good Plan A, and WS is still on the fence, Plan B often knocks them off. It gives them a good picture of how their life will be without you.

I'm not kidding, we do have a WH here who is sleeping out in a tent in his yard. Too funny.

Sandy, Plan B is used when Plan A doesn't work to end the affair. Plan A is actually DESTRUICTIVE when it goes on for too long. You simply become an enabler for the affair. Your WS has no reason to end his affair because you have give him no motivation. So, as long as he can have his cake and eat it too, he WILL. He WILL stay on the fence forever getting his needs met by TWO women!

Plan B is complete separation that - hopefully - pulls them off the fence. When they see that the OP can't possibly meet all their needs, and that they can't have BOTH, they are more inclined to come back to the marriage - on YOUR terms.

Now, there is no guarantee of reconciliation, however, at the very WORST, you will have an opportunity to live in PEACE when you do not have the affair rubbed in your nose every day. Plan B is often a huge RELIEF to the BS.

I will just tell you that continuing to do what you have been doing will get you the same result: NOTHING. I think you have been in Plan A way too long and you might get some much needed relief from Plan B.

Plan B means ending all contact with the WS until he meets certain conditions, namely ending ALL contact with the OW and agrees to work on the marriage. It is initiated with a love letter to the WS telling him your boundaries and giving him a road map back to the marriage when he is ready to end his affair.

Again more tears but this time they are tears brought on by your thoughtful replies. Thanks to everyone--I am really in a crisis here.

My husband does want to work on the marriage and has great plans for us--he has committed to no phone calls to her but will talk to her when in a large group. He says that he can be professional and above board.

Somehow, this does not give me any great comfort. He believes that he is doing his best to repair things (by coming home on time etc. but he is "uncomfortable" with me coming to concerts and band functions because he doesn't want OW and myself in the same room at the same time.) He believes that he has made the grand gesture of inviting me to a concert in June--and that should "do it". Am I a fool?

In terms of the NC letter, he says that what is going on in our marriage is none of her business. He says that he doesn't talk about intimate things with her any more and he is proud to be able to say that. He thinks that a NC letter would only stir things up again. It would mean a lot to me but I don't think that he'll ever do it.

I will search around for Plan b information and seriously consider it this week.

Emotionally, where were you when you decided to go for the Plan B? Were you tired, numb, angry? I have to do some thinking....

Thanks to all...you are tremendous listeners and I can't thank you enough for your thoughts and support. These are dark days indeed at my house--I am scared and feel lonely in my marriage.

Sandy

I went to Plan B because I was so emotionally raw that I could hardly continue. My WH kept promising to have NC with OW, but the affair kept going on. I was hurting so bad, that I went to work every morning in tears.

I gave WH Plan B letter, and he tried to contact me constantly for the first week. Then I heard nothing for 3 months. Then he called me at work and said he was moving back in.

But I had gotten stronger during Plan B, so I kept him out and told him that I was holding out for until he was not having contact with OW.

We are still on the rollercoaster, but I am strong now. Life is good again.

Your H cannot be in contact in any capacity with the OW, every time they see one another all of your efforts to rebuild are for not.

Since your husband is so willing to work on the marriage, I advise you setup a joint counseling session with Steve Harley. Steve can certainly set your husband straight on the damage any contact will have. He can also setup a Plan for you two to successfully recover and rebuild.

God Bless,
Jo

<small>[ May 15, 2004, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

I was in exactly the same position as you a week a go. My H was also prepared to do anything he could for our marriage, except the NC letter. My H also said he didn’t want to stir things up again. He just wanted it to be all over, so that we could get on with our lives. Someone said on my thread that he wants to shut the door on the A, but leave the window open. That is exactly it. Maybe you could read my thread, it may help.

Being reluctant to send the letter should speak volumes to you about how in control of the situation he really is. Even if he thinks he has a hold on things, this proves just how foggy he is. If he’s over it that much, then the letter should not be a problem.

My H was convinced (and still is) that he had handle on things. He said he was preparing for NC (for 3 weeks before I found out about renewed contact). I believe this ‘preparation’ could have gone on forever. He also was fully aware just how hard this contact would hit me and that should have been all he needed to end it. I was in a really bad way, much like you and I couldn’t believe that he was passing up the chance to make things a bit better for me.

He hasn’t even seen OW since January, but any contact at all, keeps the A alive and kicking. After agreeing to do the letter my H hit a big depression. It was finally hitting home that this was to be the end of them. I wrote the letter and he copied it out. Just doing that was unbearable for him. It really opened my eyes (and probably his) that he wasn’t ‘in control’ at all.

A couple of days have passed and now my H is in the first stage of accepting that its over and she is gone. It really hurts him. A WS will avoid this acceptance and pain as long as they can. While your H has ANY contact, he will never have to go through this stage. I think it is essential that your H never sees or speaks with OW ever again. He will continue to play down the power of seeing/speaking to her, then comes the NC letter. He just can’t do it and that’s when you really find out about this power.

In truth, my only hope that contact will not be renewed again, comes from OWs lack of courage, not from my Hs recommitment to me. Does OWH know that contact is ongoing? You really need to make it difficult for her as well as your H. Make yourself a real person in her life. When you start to cause problems for her and her home life, she may see that it’s just not worth it and end contact herself.

If he really has to be where she is, you should make sure that either you or OWH is there too.

You need to really make him understand what this means to you. I know how difficult this can be. My H saw that I was completely losing the plot, but still didn’t agree to the letter until he’d read all the answers to my thread.

I really hope you can overcome this without plan B, but I know that sometimes it has to be done.

sandigirl

You are getting classic fog talk. Pay little attention to what he's saying right now.

IMHO, you should take the exposure one more step, and contact the OW's H, and see if he's up to date on the information about continued contact. See if he won't consider having his WW change phone and cell phone numbers, e-mail addresses, and make it more difficult for her to be contacted by your WH. It would be just as much to benefit him, as you, don't you think?

I think you are fooling yourself if you think limited contact through bands or in groups will be of any help in making your marriage whole. Simply put, it will not. If indeed, you are going to Plan B, you should reconsider what boundries you will accept, and it is in your best interest to require ABSOLUTELY no contact. There are other bands, always looking for another member.

I think your WH is doing everything in his FOGGY power to manipulate you into making YOU at fault for his A, and his desire for continued contact. I didn't have to exercise Plan B, so I can't give you any suggestions there.

Regardless of which plan you are in, you need to be 100% committed to that plan. If you have done a really great Plan A, and shown him that you love him, you want him, and that you have learned what deposits he desires that you put in his LB$, and he has not responded by ending the A, the according to Dr. Harley, Plan B is the next step.

Make sure you are honest with yourself about how "effective" a Plan A you have done. With all of these recent confrontations, have there been any LB's, DJ's or AO's? If so, you may want to Plan A for at least a couple of weeks to make sure you have a proper amount of LB$ deposits before you do.

And if you are going to do a solid Plan B, it will take some time to get your financial things in order, find an intermediary and write a proper Plan B letter. Plan A your A$$ off while things are being put in place.

One last note. Whether your WH is familiar with MB, Plan B or not, do not TELL him you are doing Plan B, just do it. There is no need to explain it to him or make him aware of it in any way. Just prepare for it and execute it to the best of your ability. It is counterproductive to the WS to KNOW what Plan B is. They only need to know what your TERMS are, for you to consider allowing them back into your life.

I wish you the best!

SD

Thank you thank you all. I don't think that H will give up bands--he doesn't feel I have the right to do that. He thinks it is unusually cruel to even suggest it. I think it is foggy manipulation too.

I have the desire to email OW and tell her that I know of renewed contact. This will frighten her because it raised hell when I told OWH last time. What do you think? Am i diverting from the real issue which is a foggy and cheating H?

Oh I'm getting mad now--

Thanks,
Sandy

Dear Sandy:
"This will frighten her because it raised hell when I told OWH last time"
You need to tell OWH - what you have found out, get him on your side working for what you want -
I am sure he does not know what is going on.

Your husband needs to write the NC letter - plain and simple - if he truly wants your relationship to work, I believe the other posters are right -he is still in a fog and doesn't want to totally end that relationship with her

As for all the band - concert time spent - how many hours are you two spending together? MB suggest 15 hrs week of quality time - You have to tell him that he has to make a choice

Keep feeling that empowerment, and seriously think of Plan B - it might be your only alternative
-Sandy

If it raised hell before and she is afraid of it, there lies your power. It’s all you’ve got right now, so use it.

I would contact OWH immediately. I wouldn’t tell your H until afterwards, or he may warn her and she’ll get to her H first. Your H will be angry and it will seem like it will set you back initially, but if it ends contact, then he will finally have to face ‘getting over it’.

Don’t e-mail OW with your knowledge. All that will mean is that you’re prepared to bargain and keep her secret. You will only be protecting her and it’s time you protected yourself, if no-one else will.

I’m glad you’re getting mad now. It sure as hell beats lying down and giving up.

Good luck with this. Close your eyes and hold on tight as you prepare for the next dip in the rollercoaster ride!

I would stick to contacting OW's H. And don't do it in a vindictive fashion. Do it casually, just one human being sharing information with another. Suggest the change of numbers I mentioned before, and in a non-threatening way, ask if your H ever contacted OW by e-mail, and if so (or unknown), as for a change in the e-mail address of the OW.

Make sure he knows you love your H, and you are simply fighting to save your marriage. You may even want to refer him here to MB forums, so he can find out how to begin saving his own marriage???

You might want to consider doing the same for your own phone numbers and e-mail address(es). In fact, if you set up his "new" cell phone, you can also set up your own ability to view his cell phone records, if you don't have that privilege now.

Play it cool, NO LB's, just matter of factly, take care of business.

Good luck
SD

<small>[ May 15, 2004, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]</small>

Hi and thanks to everyone for helping me so much yesterday and listening to my rant etc. Last night was not good--H feels that my request to not talk to OW when it is business is inappropriate and makes him feel "like he's ten years old and I'm his mom". He resents my asking him to take a leave from one of the bands. He is tired of doing all the work in the rebuilding of the marriage (and i do agree that he does most of the planning for going out, holidays etc. and does not feel that I show appropriate enthusiasm for his ideas.

We talked about him getting an apartment at the beginning of June but not very seriously. I am relieved to have broken the ice on this possibility. I know that I am not strong though and I need to get stronger in order to Plan B (if it comes to that)

Plan A will be for me to get strong, stand up for myself in a good way a non-LB way, and get on some meds maybe and get exercising and getting stronger mentally and physically for the next few weeks.

Could you tell me how you did plan A? How did you plan for Plan B? I am going to look at getting the finances solidified, that is not a problem as we have few debts besides our mortgage and I can handle that on my income.

I fear being alone to tell you the truth. On one hand, I am alone in my marriage right now--when H is with me things are good on the surface but to me the trust and "solidity" is not there so it is as if he isn't really "with " me at all. Does this make sense?

If you did a Plan B how did you get over the loneliness etc. and the need to contact him? Please tell me what I'm in for..I need to mentally prepare and would appreciate knowing how much support (friends, family, dr.s etc.) to have "in my corner" so to speak if push comes to shove.

I will Plan A my heart out for the next 2 - 3 weeks and see what happens.

Does this sound like a good plan?

Thanks,
Sandy (who is not as out of control as I was yesterday thank God!)