I sometimes wonder if I was tested.

Late last Spring, right before I found out about H's A, I had an opportunity for an A myself.

Years ago I had a client. Same age as me. We just clicked and became pretty good friends. We both were single. I got married. He got married. We continued our friendship. My first H knew all about my friend. Always told him when I spoke to him. Took XH out to dinner with us when friend came to my company a couple of times. I got divorced. Friend got divorced. He was still my client. I changed jobs, but our friendship continued. We talked 3 - 4 times per year...saw each other at one or two conferences per year. Boundries were never crossed. I told my H all about my friend. Every single phone call and when I saw him at a conference. Friend got remarried also.

Saw my friend at a conference last May. He's attractive, funny, great to pal around with. Took two people from my company with me. They met him and listened to our (conference) stories and said that it sounds like you guys are good friends.

Later when the other two had walked away, my friends says, hey, we've known each other for like 15 years or more and I'm surprised something hasn't happened between us. Friend says "I would have you know". I was flattered. I simply said, well friend, you were a client, then my friend. Plus we both got married. Besides, I would much rather have you as my friend. And that was that.

I was so miserable last year that I now wonder why I just didn't do it. I had already started thinking about divorce, but I never thought about an A. Why is that?

I've travelled a lot for business. Been hit on many, many times. Never took anybody up on it or crossed that line.

One of the things I said to H when I found out about his last A is that I didn't know our M was a free-for-all. Look at all the possible great sex I missed out on. And I had plenty of opportunities.

Was this a test? Coming from someone that I had a close friendship with? Did I pass?

sss

<small>[ May 19, 2004, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: stillsosad ]</small>

Hi all,

I refuse to let myself take such a cowardly way out. If I'm so unhappy in a relationship that I'd want to see someone else, it's my job to exit the relationship with the least amount of damage. It's all about my ego, I could never forgive myself for being so weak. It's not the sex I'd feel so bad about, not religon, and not even the BS's pain, it's the (and I still cant think of a better word) cowardly nature of an A that just kills me. I will not be seen as a coward, especially by myself. I've survived so much and come so far to throw myself in to such a deep hole. I will not do that to myself. - Dru

::::People don't enter into A's for how the OP looks, it is usually because of how they make the WS FEEL or how the WS feels with OP.


They each try to embellish themselves to the hilt so as to appear more attractive and free of baggage.Contructively applying the smiles and nods and responses needed to appear completely engrossed in the OP.We all know that this doesn't last.It is the "dating" stage where everyone is putting their best face/foot/fantasy forward.

Yes, this is spot on. My son has just started a new relationship and he made the comment: We are starting to relax a bit now and stop being so forced and polite around each other.

To recovering H. If you get a chance read KiwiJ's recent post called Lisa103. On the second page I tell about my experience last weekend re a revenge A. I probably should have taken it to a new thread. It is all true - and I think most BS's would identify with some of what I was feeling and my reactions.

Btw, when I was unhappily involved in cwmac's thread re the tempted woman, I side tracked to read your story. I was very moved by it. That entire thread really got to me - partly because I was actually considering a revenge A at the time. It had all the earmarks of a normal A though. The only reason that I was in that place was that I didn't have to do the mental gymnastics to justify it. (me BS) What I got from that experience was some understanding of how you think during the A process. Hence am blown away by October girls comments.

any

Drucilla, I also identify with your comments. But the my H's pain would have taken an equal billing with losing my self worth. In 1997 I was in a unique position to have an A. I lived three months away from my H and spent a lot of time with some one I liked and who liked me. He was constantly putting the hard words on me. I mentally rehearsed it and decided the sex would be ok between us. But all I could see after that was the hurt look on my H's face. I couldn't get rid of that image. It was dead in the water after that. I didn't even think about keeping it a secret - I guess I didn't think I could keep it a secret. It's a pretty big deal to gloss over, not like a day out shopping where you spent too much money or somethng!

Hi 'anyname' and everyone...This is a good idea for a thread.
This is what Dr. Harley says:

"We are all wired to have an affair. We can all fall in love with someone of the opposite sex if that person meets one of our emotional needs. If you don't think it can happen to you because of your conviction or will-power, you are particularly vulnerable to an affair. And if you think your spouse would never have an affair, you are also vulnerable. "

I guess the bottome line is we can "Never say never!"

I am in a very tempting situation in my life with a dear old man friend; so far, I have not yielded completely to temptation but it is sure tempting!

I went for another car ride with him last week!
I really really like him a lot!
And I know I should not be doing this but I want to! He has been a friend for years and years.

Perhaps those women or men that have had lots of opportunities for affairs are better at resisting.

I am a farm wife, pretty enough,and have not had all that many opportunities to stray! And I have not had any desire whatsoever, ever, other than this man friend!

Love, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ May 19, 2004, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

Hi Anyname,
Great question!

I have had numerous oppurtunities over the years from late 20's until just a few years ago (early 40's)

Each time I got a sense of guilt as I started to think, "who's going to know." I would.

The biggest reason for the guilt was my daughters and not necessarily my wife.

I never told my W bc I even felt guilt for thinking about it but in retrospect I probably should have told my W. That thought might have flashed through her mind as OM killed the engine to the boat and started to kiss her.

So I had lots of opppurtunity.My self esteem was good. I interacted with people at work. I got smiles all the time. My W on the other hand had very little oppurtunity. She didn't have as much oppurtunity and the self esteem possibly suffered. "People see me as just Mom Cwmac."

People who have affairs have very little self esteem. The A artificially pumps it up. But its increased at the expense of the BS's self esteem.

cwmac

:::So I had lots of opppurtunity.My self esteem was good. I interacted with people at work. I got smiles all the time. My W on the other hand had very little oppurtunity. She didn't have as much oppurtunity and the self esteem possibly suffered. "People see me as just Mom Cwmac."

Cwmac, So happy you responded!!! I totally agree with you. My H was not practised in dealing with offers either. I am certain the offer he got was one hell of shock and a hit for his self esteem. Too much to resist. (he received a letter from a female half his age, asking him if he wanted to know her better he should look out his window at 9pm next nite! - he finally found a copy of the letter last Friday. I wasn't sure it existed until then!)

::::People who have affairs have very little self esteem. The A artificially pumps it up. But its increased at the expense of the BS's self esteem.

Right again. All the professional help I saw, asked me what did I think was wrong with my H's self esteem - they wanted to know about his childhood. I thought he had a lot of self esteem as a human being, but I don't think he had any as a desirable male to the opposite sex.

It's hard to forgive them their vulnerablity though. Yes, they took an ego trip very much at the expense of our ego's. Tuff call eh?

Hmmmmm.......guess anyone could say they have had a chance for an A??

Doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to know that there is ALWAYS someone for everyone out there!!

My reason for NOT having an A....?

I simply have no reason other than it was NOT part of my wedding vows! And I took them seriously!

I always thought an A would mean the end of a M, actually I always told myself if I wanted to have an A.....I would have to consider D first because I would never have the right to cause my H such pain.....even if I HATED him. To me it would be the selfish thing to ever do.

I have never wanted to take my chances with "fun" vs. right or what God has ordained for me....my H's W!

I do wonder though if the shoe had been on the other foot.......would my H have given me the chance to save our M?????? That's the question I ponder.....

Blessings,
Atruheart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Another FWS here. I beg to differ on the self esteem statement. I didn't experience a lack of self esteem until after the fact. Doing something so out of character, so damaging and foolish has shaken me. I struggle with self blame even today.

It's tempting to come up with a statement that explains why people do what they do but to assume all people who have affairs do it to gain self esteem is simply not true.

I entered into the A for sex plain and simple. Not for emotional reasons as is usually attributed to explain why females have affairs. (Another blanket statement) Just plain old fashioned hormones. Go figure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<strong> BS's. Most of u are attractive, so y didn't u have an A? </strong>

Hm.... there is a saying: 'beauty is only skin deep but rotteness goes straight to the bones.'

Something like that. There is also outer beauty and inner beauty. The one that lasts is the inner beauty. But that is not always evident until the fako beauts, move on (up or down).

So what does it mean? The beauty within is where the real love resides. All others were fakos.

WS and OP? No inner beauty loss there.

BS? Just keeps getting better and younger looking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

JMHO,
L.

::::It's tempting to come up with a statement that explains why people do what they do but to assume all people who have affairs do it to gain self esteem is simply not true.

Hi KB, I was just doing my daily swim laps thinking the exact same thing. (and people ask me what I think about while I'm watching the tiles go by!) It's wrong to make blanket statements about anything to do with A!

A's happen for a multiple of reasons. A bit like cancer! For example, affair stats can be geographical. e.g. if you live in a place where they are common, you can be influenced by the local mindset.

Many of the answers given state a single minded approach to why they wouldn't have an A - I suspect that there would be more than one reason though (and some reasons wouldn't stand up well if the right opportunity came along). I could say 100% it's that I couldn't hurt my H - though it's probably something more selfish at the core of the matter. In spite of outward appearences, I'm insecure. So, it's unlikely I would have risked harming the wonderful situation that was my life. Along with that, I get a lot of positive feedback from men without having to sleep with them. Still more, I don't think I'm that highly sexed. (excluding the past 18 months). An A would have practically no appeal to me.

Your stating that it was purely sex for you is probably not entirely true either. Though, I'm willing to bow to your greater understanding of your situation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I understand my H was driven by sex too. He told me it was pure lust. But, having read about the process of having another person bestow you with special interest/treatment, I think you can never underestimate the affect of flattery. Although I think that word is terribly old fashioned - there is something in it. Flattery has the affect of placing the ball in your caught. Someone has paid you the compliment of showing extraordinary interest in you. You can tell them to get lost if they are not appealing to you, but if you find them attractive, in a number of areas, then you are more inclined to be nice back to them. You think to yourself, wow that ''attractive to me person sees my wonderful qualities and there is a sense of wanting to pay a compliment back to them - or rewarding them for noticing you.

I'm sure you didn't pick the first person who passed you in the street to have sex with? Surely there was an element of flattery involved? And this is why the self esteem angle is raised. My H is/was considered a wonderful all round guy. He has a high IQ and life has treated him extremely well. He does not have low self esteem, as such. But he'd never considered himself sexy either. And nor is he. But when he got a letter from a pretty young girl, half his age? What happened inside him?

I can't believe he immediately thought I want sex with that girl, though I'm sure that thought was right up there. He got taken in by the unexpected assult on his senses. He thought a very pretty 26 yo finds me attractive. Wow. He would have been hit with a whole host of emotions that blurred the edges. But he cited flattery as his biggest downfall. Everyone would think it was purely sex, but I think it had as much to do with the ego boost he received from believing he was attractive to a young woman. It was so unexpected - and he had no experience of such things, and there was desire.

Must have come as a terrible shock to him when she asked him for a large sum of money <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Even then he told himself that if she asks again, he'll know she's only with him for money! She did ask again, a few days later, but by that stage, she'd decided to go for the slow drip approach rather than the adventerous flowing tap, she'd originally hoped for.

Blessed Time. How can we help you avoid falling into the trap of an A? I gather the after effects can be brutal. Do you think you can handle them? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

any

I am a WS and have gone through various comments and opinion submitted by all of you.

In my opinion, the S who does not enage or involve in A in spite of having opportunities is primarily due to :-
a. Good Character.
b. Conscience.
c. Commitments.

For instance, my ONSs' were purely guided by SEX drives and not beauty of OWs. Had I all the above three mentioned factors ingrained in me, I do not think I would have indulged or enaged in A-s.

I fully agree - "beauty is only skin deep while Bad-ness is bone-deep". That is what we, WSs are. Of course, we too can change for the better.

With best wishes to you all for starting this thread.

I had (have) plenty of opportunity, my job is 90% men. I have had guys ask me out. I always laughed it off. Yes, there are attractive guys out there, yes it is flattering to be flirted with.

I would not betray a vow I took. It would be injurious to ME. I could not live with myself.It is not in me to have a flexible values system.

I have loved my WH from the first time he held my hand. (I knew him 2 years before that happened) I have thought of no one else as my lover for 18 years. I want no one else.

Any:

Yes, I read the thread/Lisa103. I was following that and the thread Bog started about Revenge Affairs. About one month ago, I felt the need to "punish" my W for her A. I thought that was the only way I could get back at her. Reading those threads, and thinking about my situation and the 'opportunities' that I had, I realized that I was closer to an A myself than I ever realized before. I think it was at that point, I was able to stop trying to dig/understand why my W had an A. It was kind of a light bulb moment. I certainly identified with what you were going through. (I think I even discussed with my W.)

As an aside, I have invited her to 'join' this board and lurk/read/ask questions if needed. I think she could get so much out of this. So far she hasn't wanted to. That might change. Yesterday, she remembered something OM told her about her sister. So she called her to talk about it. Her sister laughed at her and p!ssed her off. She doesn't have many friends close by to talk to about this, and I think this board would an be ideal outlet for her. I think she's afraid, sort of goes back to that lack of self esteem.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> To recovering H. If you get a chance read KiwiJ's recent post called Lisa103. On the second page I tell about my experience last weekend re a revenge A. I probably should have taken it to a new thread. It is all true - and I think most BS's would identify with some of what I was feeling and my reactions. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I think I'm plain and simply "too shy"!

I've known my husband since I was 14 and I would be embarrassed to have "sex" with anyone else.

I could of had many affairs in the past but I've never met anyone that has made me feel as comfortable as my husband.
I also "turn red" immediately when I'm complimented.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm this is why it is so "confusing" for me to understand "how & why" my husband could of had an affair and have sex with OW immediately after they met.

I also "value myself" so much that I'd feel soooo cheap!

I've always told my husband: "I'm a one man woman!"

bb

1: I'd beat myself into the ground for allowing myself to break my chain or morale. Have too much self worth to lie to myself and to the one I love. etc...etc...I could give a million examples under this catogory!

2: Although there are 2 types of A's. One that would hit home for me being that my H is older then I by 5 yrs. & has a completely different sex drive..is a PA. Well, I associate sex with love & if I don't love you...then why would I give myself to you. Never one for one night stands..gave my virginity like that & my second sexual experience was the same. Both stunk!~ So, to had finally fell in love and gave myself through my heart..allowing my body to feel such beauty. I couldn't imagion sharing that with anyone else then the one I am spiritually in tune with.

3: Too damn scared! Don't trust! And looks...sweet talk..and so forth...just aren't enough. Give me a compliment and if I haven't already felt it myself or aren't currently feeling it...what the heck makes me believe that I should be all "woo'd" by someone else's dang opionion! Never been nieve..No offense to others please....& I soooo wouldn't respect someone who wanted a M'd woman in the first place! He would get that impression right off the back & wouldn't want to persist w/ anything more ...I'd question if he'd even want to wave "hi" if he seen me walking on the streets! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


4: I love our lord Jesus Christ & my beautiful children. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

:::I fully agree - "beauty is only skin deep while Bad-ness is bone-deep"

Ash, I'm not sure it's badness. It's stupidity and vulnerablity and not thinking more along the lines of "do unto others". Hey, I'm not a christian, but I think some of the Biblical stuff is common sense.

I have really been interested to hear everyone's points of view. Am glad I aksed this question.

an

:::She doesn't have many friends close by to talk to about this, and I think this board would an be ideal outlet for her. I think she's afraid, sort of goes back to that lack of self esteem.

Recovering H, I am like your wife. I'm very isolated. Partly my H's A has isolated me. I feel ashamed of what has happened to us and I just don't have much in common with all the women who haven't been thru this. So prefer my own company. Hence this place gives me cyber friends, in similar circumstances to interact with. I'm sure your wife is feeling pretty bad about what happened. There are such likeable FWW's here. She could identfy with them and see how they have come to accept themselves and how the BS accept them too!

Blondblossom. Love your response! I met my H when I was 14 too!!! You did good for a shy gal. Can't say I was shy at 14. I used to think I found a good one so figured I would keep him. Mmmm.

The comment someone made about being honest with themselves. First person to make that comment, yet it's very significant. Are FS's unable to lie to themselves? You really have to be able to lie real good to yourself to have an A!

So, am I really overconfident, and is that bad??

I mean, I dont give men an inch... any flirtation is shut down immediately.

All through my first M I had opportunities. I traveled alone, and no one would ever had known. And that was a miserable M. By the end of my M, I actually started thinking about a man I worked with. Never said a word to him, but I did D my H. I knew it was time to get out. Never considered an A for a second. So I know I've been tempted at some really low points in my life.

I seriously get hit on every week or so, sometimes by pretty good looking, professional, single men. I'm feeling pretty good about my track record <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> (the No A's part, not the getting hit on part!). I know Harley says anyone can fall into an A, but I've always limited my contact with men, outside of business. I dont discuss personal stuff with the men at work. I dont do RC with men. I've always had a good defense shield up.

Basically, I've been playing defense since puberty. I think I've gotten pretty good at it. Anyone see anything I'm missing? Thanks - Dru

I am actually handsome and have had opportunities to have an A, but I actually took the vows I made seriously and fought my feelings to stop being around temptation. I love my wife (still) and would have eaten away with guilt over doing that. Still can't believe that she went that low. We saw that movie "Unfaithful" /Richard Gere, back when it came out and she was disgusted by it. How could a woman do that to her husband?, she said. Ironically, now she is unfaithful. It has to be eating her up inside.