OK ,, Yes I know I am opening myself up to the firing line , 2x4's and what ever else gets tossed my way HERE GOS.

<small>[ May 19, 2004, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: 3isacrowd ]</small>

Never mind I was deleteing and It won't delete topic... I am not going to open this up .

sorry

JMHO, butplease do - I have read many of your topics and admire your frankness & sometimes you state exactly how I feel.

BB2 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yeah,lets here it.I was excited to begin a healthy debate here.

O

After reading that headline......what a jip! LOL

((((3isacrowd))))

3??????? Don't stop now...let it flow...get it out...remember how great your thread on attractiveness was?????

I'm sure I'm feeling EXACTLY what you're feeling...please put it into words for me.

Come on 3, what the he!! was that? We want to hear it, so you can't edit it, who cares?

HINY

<small>[ May 19, 2004, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: HopefulinNY ]</small>

now my curiosity is peaked too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

oh MY , MY SON KICKED ME OFF THE PC,, and I caome back to this .

WELL , this may not be as big a deal as you all where expeacting .

I want to starte by saying , it is not just one thread that got me like this it has been many , I was reading in recovery just normal reading .

I read the HONESTY topic (by sss I think) and again I am sooooooooooo happy that all has worked so well for her and H situation .

Also I know the vets here are GREAT and well it is no personal atact at all ... JMHO..OK


I just feel that BS suck up way way way to much crap!
NOW this may mean that I don't belong on MB , I don't know .

And please lets not go with the do ya want to be RIGHT OR M THING .... BS are already right (JMHO) nothing left to peove there .

ITS the hole honesty thing ,, yes I belive in it ,, but possiably for different reasons .

I don't want my FWS thinking of OP ,, IS that wrong ??? NO .
IF the image pops up during SF then yes I belive that its them they where "PINEING FOR"

another thing I don't belive I should PROVE a SAFE PLACE for FWS either ,, for what ? to be an adult and tell the TRUETH like HHHHHHHHMMMMMMM

ME!

I ask questions why? so I can make a determination weather to stay M or not .

I mean if I ask do you still think Of FUN things ya did with OP ? and he says YES ...well then I know I got no need for that I am worth more .

I ask do ya think of the SEX ,,, if yes well put in that another resaon to D colunm.

NOW I know we been down the road of talking about FOG and withdrawl and I do belive (and have ) been through this ..

BUT thats it already ,, enough .

YA cheated , had fun, escaped from life, forgot ya had a family , ran up the bills , had great sex, and then ya got the comfort to come home and in most all here SUPPORT from that ,,,OH YES HORRIABLE BS ya convinced yourself you had ..

THEN all the other support ,,, BUT now its done .

YES I do belive the OP shouldn't even be a memorie !!!!!!!!!!!NOT AT ALL !!!!!!!

OK no loading 357's at me ,,
NO I do not think of XBF, or past sex with any one else at all EVER and I am being honest .

I can't even rember the way a kiss felt from someone else .

Yes I know I had puppy love and yes laughed with OM/boys before H and I dated ,,, but can I rember or ever get reminded NO ,,, and never when I was with /around my H ...

HOW can I be with someone I LOVE so much and even have someone else POP in my HEAD !!!!

NOPE , sorry .

ALSO on other things that I read ,,, the constant thing about a BS not looking deep enough into the why they are angry or HOW they should APPROACH a topic of pain ,,,

HOW ,, any way they feel thats how . IF they want to cry and breck down why shouldn't they ?

WHY should they worry that they didn't express it THE WAY A FWS WILL feel "safe""

BULL*&%$!

and the constant POJA (sorry KB) yes I know it works for some ,,, but when your doing about everything under the sun .... COME ON !

GEE , M is work ,, but what happened to the NORMAL part of ,, well , disagree , arguee ..and some one is just wrong and says hey I am sorry ...

AND WHY WHY WHY .... DOES the INFEDELITY label mean thet ya gotta work 10x more harder , then others ...??
QUESTIONARIES ?? EN? BOOKS? MC? IC?

WOW wasn't the hole world being turned up on top of our heads enough ..

OK if ya made a mistake ,, and it truely was a mistake and both parts love and recommit to one another then ok ,,, be in love and live happyly ever after ..

I mean $hit if the WS /FWS is truely sorry , and the BS knows they want it then ,, PUT the GLASS slipper back on and treat that W like the queen she is or the H like the prince he is and enough with all the ,,, I think of OP once in a while .


This in my opoin is another reason why BS have low selfesteem for so long ,,,, cause alot of this is a KISS A$$ method ..

And the only A$$ that should be KI$$ED while getting back to bliss IS the BS !

NO I am not having a bad hair day or anything LOL
H and I not fighting or anything .
NO there is N/C as best to my knowledge.

I guess just feeling horriable for some wonderful people out there who didn't /don't derserve all this nor do they deserve to have to go through all this STRESSFUL WORK they are enduring in the recovery process ..

I know its not easy on any of us but MY FEELING IS ,,,,,THAT IF the FWS truely got there HEAD out from up there BUTT <<<< ITS CAKE

FOR any WS still in the FOG or WITHDRAWL excuse MODE ,,,,,

I would take all the prays in the world and send them your way for YOU to stop the pain and value the person you stood before GOD and others and live your life accordingly and stop hurting a person who lived up to the vows they said to you .

AND also if theres a decion to make then to me ,,ws has made it they should be with OP !

IF you made a mistake and truely are remorse ful there is no desion ,,,, YOU would RUN not walk to your S,,, and beg for forgiveness .

RECOVERY gets stuck cause the WS/FWS isn't doing all they can do >> JMVHO

OK so I told ya , it may not have been all that ,, nothing I may have not said, before ..

BUT sorry I hate this more and more feeling like the BS has to HOLD up the thing until some BUTT head gets it ,,, they WHERE WRONG!

Well you just go on with your big bad self.....this really isn't anything I haven't thought or said before myself. I think what you are saying and feeling and reading is perfectly normal. You don't have to have a bad hair day to feel your feelings. I think you are right, but still here I sit in Plan B, thinking the same thing as you. Except I have these beautiful kids that make me sit here in Plan B. JMHO I think you are normal to feel this because I have too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

HINY

EGG SHELLS ! I don't think a BS should feel like there walking on them ya know ?

WHY should we have to suggest ALTERNATIVES for a FWS to say something or do something ?

I mean if ya don't like it and ya tell them aren't they smart enough to say ,,, GEE I should say or do this ,,, the other thing gives them triggers ,,,, they just told me that ....

THIS is not rocket science ,,, its you S the person ya fell in love with ,,, the one YOU CHOOSE to spend your life with ...

also HINY ,,, your in a good place PLAN B ,,, your where the BUTT HEAD can't infect ya (sorry)

AMEN! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks for putting into words much of what I have felt for so long.I agree with Dr.Harley's methods and they have helped a great deal BUT I also think that WS's should be doing a LOT more to help save the marriage and stop [censored] footing around trying to decided what the heck they want to do.They are adults and instead of going and getting the necessary help to stop this abhorrent behavior,they continue to waffle,fence sit,cake eat,waste time and SELFISHLY ignore the pain they cause.I mean,if you can see the pain you cause your BS,then JUST STOP IT.Otherwise get out of dodge and stop wasting everyone's time.Geeze.

That is why I am filing for a D.I have had enough of this waiting and MC and reading and being dumped on by WH who can't make up his mind whether to have his wife,children,family,home and dignity or the jealous,scheming homewrecker.Hmmmm.What's wrong with this picture??

Well,I don't want to get all mad now,I have been doing good and not giving any energy to WH and the homewrecker.I understand where you are coming from 3.It's almost just as bad to be recovered knowing that the WS pines away for the OP.Yuck.How will you ever know that thier thoughts aren't about the OP? That is hard to live with.

Anyway,these are just my opinions too.Just venting.

O

3

I doubt there are many BS's that have not experienced the same feelings you have expressed.

It's really pretty ironic that a program developed to "save your marriage from infidelity" puts most, if not all of the initial burden on the person who has been "wronged", and often completely debilitated by the discovery of the affair.

The Plan A could be likened to cancer treatment. The doc says "ok, this could get better, or even great, but you have to take this medicine and be tired and sick and your hair will fall out", but, it might not work at all. You will have to endure great discomfort, and it may all be for naught.

And that's the physical side. The emotional side of the Marriage Builders philosophy, is (imho) worse than the physical treatment of cancer, because with cancer, chances are, you have the support of the the most important person in your life, your spouse. With infidelity, you endure all of the shock, pain, grief, hurt, without the support of the one you love the most.

And all to lure back the one who caused the pain.

One of the first things I read in this forum when I "just found out", was Plan A is not for wimps. Never has a statement ever proven to be more accurate, in the months I have lived since then.

However, I believed what I read, and with the assistance of many wise posters here, I endured Plan A, and it freaking worked. And it still works. And it changed me to a person my WW would take another look at, and give up the OP for.

It is worth it? It is for me. I guess we all have to make that decision for ourselves. Is it tough? Worst experience of my life. Most difficult thing I've ever done. But if you love your WS, and you want them back into your life, the MB way works, and the price is worth paying.

SD

I think sometimes Plan A gets a bad rap, simply because it is so easily misunderstood. Plan A IS one-sided, but it is not the same as being a doormat...and it is also a SHORT-TERM strategy. If the affair continues, it leads to plan B.

And, once the affair is ended, the MB plan for recovery is DEFINITELY two-sided, and requires the WS to do a good deal of repair work.

More on Plan A, as clarified by Cerri (who is a MB trained coach):

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a stategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.

Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.

Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)

Now, Plan B IS all about you, the betrayed partner. It's about getting you out of and away from a situation that is horribly painful and, let's face it, degrading. Plan B is taking the stance that enough is enough and that although you want the marriage to succeed you will no longer be part of a triangle. And that you care enough about the marriage to know that you need to protect the love you still have for your partner.

Now, nowhere in any of that is the idea that the faithful partner needs to make life easy and comfy for the straying spouse!! No need to bend over backwards to be a doormat. Certainly no need to be afraid to trigger guilt!! Good god!! They should feel guilty!!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kathi

WOW ,,, OCT.. WARNING TRIGGER ----the words GET OUT OF DODGE !!!!!!

MY FWS used that all the time when he was leaving me ,,, thats so funny ,,, I never had anyone else use that one before ... LOL

I hate those words LOL

MUCH HAPPYNESS TO YOU !

I'm going to have to concure here. I know that if my W and I can get to recovery I'm going to have to suck it up and be nice and act like this didn't hurt me at all. Not LB and act normal. Why? This wasn't my decision for my W to have an A. It was her's and her's alone. Plus while she's in the A currently I'm a dirty SOB and she see's this situation she's in as my fault, what a crock of poo!!! I still love my W but even in B those feelings are fleating fast especially when I think of all the work and pride swallowing I'm going to have to do. I'm willing to do it but it's going to be tuff and I'm with 3 it should be the WS who should make an effort and understand some angry outburst's once in a while, not all the time mind you, but I'm sure they will happen. Especially for me I talk before I think sometime's, and I know I will say something hurtful. Just a little vent from me.

Ah that make's me feel better now back into the MB principal's

<small>[ May 19, 2004, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: The Tinman ]</small>

Oh 3, of course you're tired. You feel like the only one holding up the whole house.You ARE the only one holding up the house! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

You are so right, your WH needs to do some serious a**kissing!!! You're still waiting (and waiting, and waiting....) for that to happen. We're waiting with you,3.

As far as POJA, that's a joint thing, not something you do by yourself anyway. I didn't mean to heap coals on your poor head, just wanted to share what worked for us. You KNOW I'd like to shake some sense into your H!!!!

Maybe this vent will help cheer you a little 3, You know, get it off your chest! Have a glass for me tonight will you? I'm going to be too busy to sit down but I'll be thinking of you, KB

Hi 3,

So sorry that "Get out of ****" is a trigger for you!! I will not say it again just because I know it bothers you and we all need to take care of each other here, right? Nuff said.


O

I know what holding up the house feels like! I still am doing it! Maybe that is what kept me sane knowing that my H. was 1200 screwing the B*tch and I was here. I have one special need child and one who had major surgery who needs follow ups and care. So I could not fall apart
That is why I get so angar because I do think hubby should be doing a lot more for our relationship. I feel that I am doing all the work again. Same stuff before the A. had happened. I am the one who was neglected. And I am tring so hard to be vulnerable again. But he had the A.? What is off about that?
I guess I am a committed loving wife!

Ali
I feel weird posting here. I feel like a newbe! I am in a really bad mood today.