broken loyalty- disloyal- infidel- betrayor- = synonomous...there is not any difference...

Th elonger that the betrayal occurs the worse that discovery is taken...trust me...I know about that too well...Jen has done it to herself...she needs to come clean...

There is no benefit to KiwiJ to tell Rob about the contact.

Scenario 1) She tells Rob and he decides enough is enough and sends her packing. From what KiwiJ has posted, the OM doesn't want her so she has no viable option awaiting her. She says she wants the marriage because she has no other choice. She is not happy in the marriage because it is boring and she wants excitement according to her posts. She cannot fully commit to Rob because she is drawn to OM according to her posts. She is not highly motivated to try to save a marriage she is not convinced she wants.

Scenario 2) She tells Rob and he forgives and forgets. All this excitement she is currently living quickly dies and she goes right back to the boring marriage she fantasizes about getting out of. She said in one of her posts that the best part of her marriage was right after Dday. That was the excitement she is missing. Right now she is fantasizing about that. Making it a reality (by telling Rob) will make it end. Then she goes back to boredom.

At the moment, KiwiJ has all the excitement of the unknown. The adrenaline rush of fear. All the attention and the high profile she craves. Once this little episode is over (one way or the other) she goes back to her relative obscurity and life of boredom.

Affairs are selfish. We can argue what her motives were for seeing OM again. Drinks in a bar is a tough one to rationalize away. Regardless, Drs Harley say NC is a must. Let's not try to make KiwiJ into a hero for "walking to the brink and turning back". The reality is none of us has any idea what really happened, what was said or what the intention was. If OM had not rejected KiwiJ, nobody knows what might have happened. KiwiJ is still being selfish by not telling Rob so she is continuing her affair behavior.

Now I have been saying from the beginning that KiwiJ should tell Rob without delay. That any delay just makes the pain worse. I never felt I could really add much more than that and I have just seen so many posts above this one that are all exactly right. My only purpose with this post is to open up our minds to the why of KiwiJ not telling Rob. In her mind, both on a conscious and subconscious level, there is no benefit to telling Rob. The only reason for her to tell Rob is that it is the right thing to do. Her selfishness precludes that.

Kiwi

Not that you need one more opinion, but as a bs I wanted to say that the problem is we don't know the truth when we hear it. Unlike a movie or novel where we see all sides, experiences, thoughts and feelings; in real life we only know what we see touch and feel from our own experiences.

If my h was in your shoes right now ..... I'm pretty sure he would be doing exactly what you are doing. And the longer he took to tell me the more I would read into the delay. I would WANT to believe that he didn't tell me because he was afraid of my reaction, but I would second guess my gullability and wonder if there was more to the story.

What is the best way he could tell me? How to bring it up? Quiet neutral place. A request that I PROMISE to stay engaged in the conversation until we both have been heard. A request that I PROMISE not to make any decisions at such an emotionally charged time. A confession that he made a lousy decision because (insert the why).

I'm stating the obvious when I say that finding out on our own is the worst thing for a BS. Because it adds to the layers of distrust ..... my h will only be honest when he is caught. Please, please be the source for him. Odds are your h has noticed that you are stressed (your reference to a good deal of crying), and he may just check MB to see what is going on.

I really wish you the best. Just as i do my h.

hns

There is no doubt that if Jen wants a complete, clear conscience then she needs to tell Rob. Jen has been living and breathing MB principals for the past couple of years and she KNOWS the difference between right and wrong.

But how many of you BS's truly believe you have every last sordid detail uncovered from your spouse's A? We may have asked for honesty but I doubt we got it 'all'. I reckon that most WS's have a few 'skeletons in the closet' they would rather not disclose.

There are some FWS's who come completely clean, but my guess is that they are not the norm. The ones that come to MB are often, I feel, on a spiritual quest to cleanse their minds but I personally think I would be a fool to believe my WH ever disclosed ALL the details of his A.

Many posters here are harping on at Jen to 'do the right thing'. But how many of you can put your hand up and say, "I totally trust that my FWS has told me the complete and utter truth even though I asked for it"?

It's not a defence of Jen. It's my reality of Affairs. TT

TT, not disclosing every detail of an already admitted affair is one thing. But keeping deliberate NC violations secret is surely something else ?

This is a NEW threat to their marrige, not a detail of an old, dealt with threat IMO.

My sentiments precisely, BP.

This is an intentional reinitiation of contact AFTER 2 or so years in recovery. This isn't a DETAIL of the affair history, its NOW and in the PRESENT.

Jo

Agreed Bob - I really was just making what I believe is a valid point.

It that somehow a warped license for Jen to lie to her H about breaking nc? Let's say that EVERY DAMN FWS has withheld LOTSA details, would that EVER justify not telling Rob that contact has been resumed? If everyone in the world LIED, would that make lying right? Of course not.

My God, TT, your rationalizations sound equal to or worse than the most fogged out WS.

But, there is no longer any need to go through these tortured mental gymnastics to justify the unjustifiable.

That is because I called Jen's husband myself and gave him the facts. He is now fully apprised of the situation and is dealing with it.

Please say a prayer for this dear, sweet man who did nothing to deserve this.

You're right that few BS get every detail. I agree with that certainly. I stopped asking Squid when I realised it didn't make any difference to me after a certain level of knowledge.

Damn, I wish Jen would had immediately done this herself when she had the chance.

Prayers going up for Rob and Jen.

Jo

KiwiJ, if your husband loves you and follows the biblical standard, when you confess and repent he WILL be hurt and "happy" at the same time. Hurt that what he thought was over is not yet over. Happy that you told him, knowing he could choose to end the marriage. If he is a believer, he will feel the pain, lose the trust that has been rebuilt, but he WILL forgive and try again if he believes that you really mean your repentance. He will KNOW that none of us is perfect, that we do make wrong choices, and that we get up off the floor after we've been knocked down and try again....IF we believe the affair is over, that contact will not happen again. But trust me on this one, "trust, but verify" WILL also be a part of the process, and you must accept "accountability" in this area.

Just please don't forget that true forgiveness is predicated on sincere repentance. He needs to believe you are sincere.

God bless.

You and me both, Jo.

FH:

Let me first off warn you that I am not posting to you here because I want to get into a philosophical debate or talk about Christianity of the Bible, etc.. I can appreciate your beliefs and perspective and am not challenging that.

What I am challenging is your statement that says a BS will forgive is their is repentance and they believe the affair is over. I am having a tough time with that statement. How many "second chances" does one give? You yourself have been the continued victim of repeated betrayals by your WW, and each time you seem to find a way to minimize it and wrap it up in a nice "forgiving" way. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE SUFFERED YOUR LAST BETRAYAL? Please just give me a blunt answer without the other biblical references.

Thank you for your time.

LEM

I'm not fogged out Mel, but perhaps this wasn't the right thread to make the point.

Mel - I hope Rob doesn't do anything stupid over this. I couldn't walk in your shoes.

no, but you could live with yourself forever supporting her to just go on her happy way and not telling him, huh?

TT:

What kind of crap is that statement that you couldn't "walk in Mel's shoes".....that is the kind of enabling dysfunctional statement that halts progress with so many people here. As if Melodylane has any repsonsibility to what happens based on the actions and choices that Kiwi made. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

There is a reason that people continue to stay mired in the he** of their lives, and your statement above is a prime example of that.

I am sorely dissapointed in you.

LEM

TT

I think you are right. And I think it is sad. And I think it is wrong thinking.

I believe truth has a way of surfacing at the most inconvenient times. And it is extremely short sighted to hold back on the truth because we think it will never come to light.

Melody
Oh my, what a difficult thing you have done. It is something I did myself long ago and there was a price paid. I lost a friend.

Prayers up for all Rob and Jen and frankly all of us injured souls.

hns

TT, I don't think that "point" would pass the muster on any thread and I am amazed you tried to justify her actions in that way. You don't have to do that any more, so please don't demean yourself. Her H knows, so the need for tortured rationalizations is over.


No doubt.

TT
I must add, truth is sometimes about trust with another, but I believe it is mostly about trust within. When i betray another and practice deception, I deceive myself as well as another.

Now before you jump to conclusions ..... I'm not suggesting that you advocate deception. I'm just thinking out loud about the whole flawed "I get to decide what truth is told" thinking.

Hey Mel, thanks.

I appreciate your guts in standing up for what is right.