So it goes . . . the infatuation with sex. Vicki > " the devil himself . . ? " Oh geeez . . . <P>As I remain committed to, and will not abandon, my friendship/relationship with MWW while MWW & H dissolve their partnership . . . it must be wrenching for most of those who have waited and waited for the OM / OW to simply go away. True, in time, most do. However, there actually does come along a man like me who not only is willing to wait, but is, and has, forgiven betrayal in previous history of a long-term relationship. <P>So, the issues involved with building a foundation for future health in MWW & OM's relationship is to accept the notion that (a) most separated/divorced couples reunite temporarily (b) about half of all second-marriages end in divorce (c) forgiveness is unconditional . . . <P>Is sleeping around truly grounds for divorce, or hatred, or forgetting all the love that was once shared/created ? I truly feel that open and honest confession when (not if) it occurs is healthier in the long run. Moments of passion are unavoidable, and none of us are perfect. <P>Am I supposed to imagine "Ms. Perfect" is out there somewhere ? Of course not . . .<P>

Y A W N

Ho Hum<P>Double Yawn...

Your posts say to me that you are trying to talk YOURSELF into believing what you are saying. I'm not saying that what you feel isn't real. It's very unfair that you have fallen in love with a married woman. I do think that deep down your consience is telling you what you are doing is wrong. If it weren't you wouldn't keep trying to explain yourself.

Carlton, <BR> First off you never answered me in your "same as it ever was" thread, funny you should use that line from that song btw. Now I have more questions and yes, more comments for you.<BR> Why do you pesist in calling her MWW, what diffrence does it make if she is MWW, MBW, MHW, or M spotted Woman ? Really this has bugged the stuffing out of me. The whole point is she IS a MARRIED WOMAN.<BR> And I agree with Viki, your actions are straight out of the pits of Hell, I will even go so far as to say satan is using you to help destroy a family, familys were Gods idea remember ?<BR> This is not the site to find what you are looking for, we are intrested in trying to rebuild damaged marriages here, not to help tear them down. There are other sites for that, I even lurk on them often "know the enemy" as they say. Or could it possibly be that you are only here to stir the pot so to speak ? Maybe you are just a person who finds other people's pain funny. <BR> You refuse to give this woman the address of this site, who are you to decide she does or does not need to hear what we have t to say ? Sounds to me like she's in for a very hard time if she leaves her H for you. What are you so insecure that you can't deal with her possibly realizing she does want to be with the H after all ? Or are you such a control freak that you even plan to monitor the input she gets ? Sounds like a VERY ABUSIVE relationship in the making to me. <P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Carlton, One simple question.....why are you here in MB?

Deb > Jesus is Lord . . . get over it. <P>Anyway, so I was born a sinner, and will die a sinner . . . and no, I am not looking for salavation or absolution here. Accepting the fact that I am human, excuse me for being a man.<P>So why did I come here ? Maybe to learn from tragedy, and perhaps how to avoid it. Who knows . . . <P>As far as my "friend" saving her marriage ? It was over before I met her. The rest of the story is in the paperwork . . . <P>Is Marriage Builders only for 1st marriages ? Just trying to figure out where you all have gone wrong, and how to avoid these same mistakes. Now, I can understand why half of all second marriages fail when so much bitterness is clung to from the first. This is what I am trying to overcome. <P>How to be more understanding and considerate, open-minded ? than judgmental and suspicious . . . <P>And the upside is, from what I see here . . . perhaps marriage is really not for me after all. God, what a mess it can be . .

Anyone else in here notice the similarities in "Carlton's" and "Lost Soul's" posts? On the surface the stories are very different, but both seem to get a kick out of antagonizing and calling us "close-minded".

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz<P>Y A W N<P>

I'm yawning too. (How can we get rid of this guy???)

Carlton, we don't give a rat's a$$ - get over it and get a life.

Get a life. Your own life, not some other man's. And if you are going to dog me, at least spell my name right.<p>[This message has been edited by Viki (edited September 16, 1999).]

I told you Carlton (or is it Charlatan??) that you wouldn't find too many friends here...

Carlton:<P>Jesus is Lord! and one day you will bow before Him and acknowledge Him as Lord.<P>Why not do it now, in this life of your own free will and let Him begin to straighten out the mess in your life. Or you can wait til after you die and according to the Word of God, then EVERY knee will bow and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.<P>[censored] from Texas

gosh Carlton,<BR> Glad to se you admit Jesus is Lord, so how come you don't follow what he says ? Do you even know what the word Lord means ? It does not mean the maker of suggestions, it means, owner, ruler, master, He is to be obeyed. And besides all that you STILL haven't answered my questions. And no Carlton dear this site isn't only for first marriages, it is for marriages, period, you are not married. I fail to see why you can not understand what we all, betrayed and betrayers alike are trying to tell you. We do not wish to help you ruin a marriage. What happens if you get this woman, and after a time real life closes in as it does with all of us you know, the bills, the kids, maybe the lack of the kids, just everyday life, what if you meet yet another friend who needs a hero ? Where will MWW be then ? <P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Deb > " . . . follow what He says . . . "<P>Notice the capital 'H' ? Whatever . . . <BR>I believe in the Light, and can offer no defense for being mortal, and a sinner. If loving an as yet divorced woman is my greatest sin, then damn me to hell. <P>" . . . what Lord means ? . . . "<P>acknowleding the capital 'L', the answer is yes, I do know what the word means. Again, no defense whatsoever. It is horribly wrong for me to have the feelings I truly hold in my heart for my dear friend. Yet, I take some comfort in knowing my God is a jealous God, and that I never have loved any more than Him. He is my Father, and as hypocritical as this all must seem . . . I do not lurk in the shadows. Each and everyday I ask for guidance to be stronger than most OM, and I pray for patience and acceptance in whatever the eventual determination shall be. The issue is not my hideous attempt at covertly seducing a married woman further from her family . . . more, remaining committed to doing what is true and correct. And the truth is, love is not condemned nor sancified. Love is created, and not institutionalized. Love is trust, and this I will not betray.

well, all I can say is I have done my best to reach you, as has everyone else here. I can give up knowing I at least tried. And you have STILL avoided most of my questions !<BR> I give up, maybe someone can get through to you the harm you are doing, but I doubt you. You say we are close- minded, look in the mirror.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

If you are praying for answers, do you think you would hear them if they were spoken straight out of heaven?<P>If God led you to this site, wouldn't HE want you to listen to the site?<P>God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. God's principles are ALWAYS right. By listening to His word, will you find your answers. And God is no respector of persons.<P>How does a man become wise? The first step is to trust and reverence the Lord. Only fools refuse to be taught. <P>Wisdom shouts in the streets for a hearing. She calls out to the crowds along Main Street, and to the judges in their courts, and to everyone in all the land: "You simpletons!" she cries. "How long will you go on being fools? How long will you scoff at wisdom and fight the facts? Come here and listen to me! I'll pour out the spirit of wisdom upon you, and make you wise. I have called you so often but still you won't come. I have pleaded, but all in vain. For you have spurned my counsel and reproof. Some day you'll be in trouble and I'll laugh! Mock me, will you?--I'll mock you! When a storm of terror surrounds you, and when you are engulfed by anguish and distress, then I will not answer your cry for help. It will be too late though you search for me ever so anxiously.<P>"For you closed your eyes to the facts and did not choose to reverence and trust the Lord, and you turned your back on me, spurning my advice. That is why you must eat the bitter fruit of having your own way, and experience the full terrors of the pathway you have chosen. For you turned away from me-to death; your own complacency will kill you. Fools! But all who listen to me shall live in peace and safety, unafraid."<P>Only wisdom from the Lord can save a man from the flattery of prostitutes; these girls have abandoned their husbands and flouted the laws of God. Their houses lie along the road to death and hell. The men who enter them are doomed. None of these men will ever be the same again.<P>Carlton - this is in Proverbs. Are you going to say that God is a liar, and that He is a respector of persons - and this section of His word is not for you? That you are above God's word?<P>

Feelings aren’t right or wrong. It’s how you act/react to those feelings that can be wrong