[ </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LowOrbit, I like your question above… Very good question… I mean, if most OPs are viewed as “predators” then it means that most WSs are also “predators” because both OPs and WSs have the same motives when getting involve in an A in the first place.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Suzet,
Couldn't an A happen simply because 2 people are in a bar...drinking and dancing and things go from there? does there have to be a e/n fullfilled? ( there are a lot of people here who say ....they thought their M was great) Can't some happen simply for the "thrill"?......

Cello,

I understood your definition.....but what if the OP was not initiating anything and conversation went elsewhere? I just think it a cop-out to suggest that OP is either Or ...actually we could all sit and judge the OP and find may be they are both....or none?

JMHO
Blessings,
Atruheart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The OW in our situation WAS a predator. We have found out through a private investigator that she has had numerous affairs throughout her 3 past marriages. In fact, all of her marriages failed because of infidelity.

We also found out that she uses pregnancy scares to extort money from the man that she was seeing at the time. So far, each man has been "conquered", with the exception of my husband. We have filed a restraining order against her and it was granted.

We've done a little research and have come to the conclusion that she applies for jobs in which the workforce is mostly male. In my husband's situation, this was also true. She flirted with each man there until she found one (my husband) who listened to her flattery, and the affair was off and running. Was my husband looking to start an affair? No...and to this day, he wonders how he allowed himself to get involved with her.

I call her "The Maneater". And yes, my husband and I are taking legal action in the hopes that she may think twice about choosing another victim.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Suzet,
Couldn't an A happen simply because 2 people are in a bar...drinking and dancing and things go from there? does there have to be a e/n fullfilled? ( there are a lot of people here who say ....they thought their M was great) Can't some happen simply for the "thrill"?......</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Surely it can, although I think most As happen because of unfulfilled ENs (not necessarily unfulfilled ENs in M) or personal weaknesses and/or vulnerabilities. Of course the sinful nature of human beings plays a big role here. Even “thrill seekers” can seek a “thrill” because of an unfulfilled NEED for excitement in their life and then try to fill that need the wrong way (drinking and dancing for example). With this example it means that both people originally had the same MOTIVE e.g. want to fulfill their need for excitement with drinking and dancing. Most probably people do those things because something else is missing in their lifes (most probably a strong relationship with God is missing) and then they try to fill those void in destructive ways. Hope I make some sense. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ June 01, 2004, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>

Well let's see. OW is married, has gone through men like water and had the nerve to tell WS to work things out with me while she was constantly in his face everytime he turned around. The last guy she was with she stayed with long enough to completely wipe out his bank account. When WS told her it was over she was all of a sudden pregnant, not once but twice. You be the judge.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Surely it can, although I think most As happen because of unfulfilled ENs (not necessarily unfulfilled ENs in M) or personal weaknesses and/or vulnerabilities. Of course the sinful nature of human beings plays a big role here. Even “thrill seekers” can seek a “thrill” because of an unfulfilled NEED for excitement in their life and then try to fill that need the wrong way (drinking and dancing for example). With this example it means that both people originally had the same MOTIVE e.g. want to fulfill their need for excitement with drinking and dancing. Most probably people do those things because something else is missing in their lifes (most probably a strong relationship with God is missing) and then they try to fill those void in destructive ways. Hope I make some sense.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yep!! Makes a lot of sense to me. Especially the part about the relationship with God! Thanks Suzet.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


Blessings,
Atruheart

Both. OW was looking for love in all the wrong places (has had other As prior to my H) and was a preditor...she smelled that he was emotionally vulnerable (of course, him telling her he was unhappy in his M didn't help).

At the same time, my H was doing the same thing. He was looking to feel good about himself with someone he had no business looking to and he knew that she was also unhappy in her M and vulnerable to his attention.

I give my H and OW equal 'credit' for the A. It's a scary thing for me to think that my H also holds the title of the OM. He tried to break up another family...talked of M with OW (fog talk...yes...but talk none the less). He wanted her to leave her H so they could live 'happily ever after'...with no concern for what that would do to her children or others in their lives. Her children are 15 and 9 and are aware of the A. As I said, she has had other As but I don't believe anyone (kids or her H) know about them...my H holds the title of the one who tried to break up their family... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Sorry cellophane, but I think that either of the options you mentioned generally give the OPs too much credit.

I think they're basically just selfish and pathetic. Somehow they missed the simple morality that was doled out by their parents and primary school teachers: "don't take something that isn't yours."

Sorry cellophane, but I think that either of the options you mentioned generally give the OPs too much credit.

I think they're basically just selfish and pathetic. Somehow they missed the simple morality that was doled out by their parents and primary school teachers: "don't take something that isn't yours." It ain't that hard a lesson to learn; we're not talking quantum physics here.

The first OM that I know of IS a used car salesman. He would have to clean off a lot of slime to come up to the level of the stereotype. He is also a predator and dosen't care if the woman is married or not. The current OM is a predator. He is ancient pond scum. My opinion my be biased.

The other person is definetely a predator and low life who is willing to do anything to satisfy his ego without regard of any damage done to others. But also the WSs are weak and with serious character flaws that they allow themselves into that situation and end up harming those close to them without giving it some thought. Both of them together create a situation sorrounded by lies, deceit, treachery, insults, etc.

An OP a predator???

Well yes on the outside it does look like that. But in the cases of my H`s OW`s and other OP`s I know personally it`s not really true predatory behaviour. It`s more like grabbing for a life preservor behaviour.

IHMO OP`s are looking for someone or some thing to rescue them.

Yes they do search out easy targets. They look for someone just like them.

To call them predators suggests that they have some kind of power, some driving force, they are just looking for unsuspecting married people to hook up with/gobble up.

I think OP`s are the least powerful of people. They do not have the gumption/knowledge to fix their own problems, the self esteem to find a mate of their very own with whom they can start then maintain a normal healthy relationship with. And some OP`s do get a high from the competition aspect of it all.

OP`s lack the knowledge and life skills to make appropriate choices. That`s not predatory behaviour, that`s actually a sign of feeling powerless and inadequate.

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: Daisy37 ]</small>

Someone sent me this a while back, referring to what we call OP's as "affairees." Not sure what book is is from or how vaild it is but it seemed to fit the bill pretty well regarding my W's OM:

“We use the term "affairee" to describe the individual who engages in the affair with a married person. The nature of affairees has surprisingly commonality. Affairees want the basic things from an affair relationship that everyone else does from a normal relationship, but what makes them unusual is that they seek their goals among the married rather than the single. They choose partners who are not in a position to marry them, and who are engaging in the relationship at great risk. People who are affairees are clearly angry at marriage, have usually been unsuccessful at marriage, and often have very negative feelings toward the opposite sex as well. They believe marriage doesn't work, often basing this on their own experience or past infidelity, and they demonstrate it by a willingness to break up another marriage as they find a partner for themselves. There is ratification in this as well as their own unfaithfulness is approved and repeated by another. The alleviation of guilt comes from meeting others who behave similarly thereby serving to normalize the behavior.

Most affairees have had or will have more than one affair and each one validates both their distrust for marriage and contempt for the opposite sex. Affairees typically possess strong feelings of inferiority and inadequacy about themselves and the affair enables them to feel empowered and superior to the married couple whose lives they shatter or whose fidelity they break. They demand very little from their partners, their mere participation being sufficient, and seek nothing from the affair relationship other than its continuation. Affairees usually recover quickly from the exposure of an affair, seldom seek or remain long in counseling, and in general possess unsympathetic attitudes regarding their victims and show little remorse for their conduct. The affairee almost never remains with an affair partner and is unlikely to remain in any monogamous relationship for very long. Interviews and surveys of numerous affairees cite sociopathic personality disorder as a common trait evidenced by a self centered distrust for social mores, institutions, marriage, opposite sex relationships, and the family."

Jack

Originally posted by cellophane:
How many OPs are people just people looking for love in the wrong places versus predators of some sort taking advantage of WSs in vulnerable situations?

The OM in my situation has a smarmy carsaleman-like personality. Do you think salesmanship is a common trait amongst OPs? I think the OM has really done some sort of sales job on my FWW.

I really can't wait to sit down and talk to her when the fogs lifts. It's too late for our M but I really would like to know what was going on in her head.


I think I'll answer in 2 ways...

The OW first:

She was not a predator. She appeared to be one to me at first ... my H was her 9th affair. She started calling H to talk about her problems.

It was not until enough time had passed that I could see her more clearly.

She did not intend to cause harm...
She is a rather shallow thinker.
Her ability to think beyond her immediate needs has never been very well developed.
She has lived a very reactionary existance her whole life.
She is chronically unhappy and searching for short term solutions to a long term problem.

I don't think she was looking for love in all the wrong places ... I think she has been asking herself the wrong questions for her entire life.

She lacks a clear understanding of herself, her needs, and her abilities.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Now my H:

Because OW was married ... this makes my H an OP also .... well, a long time ago. (8 years recovered)

Was H a predator?

No. OW called H first and continued to call him whenever she was frustrated in her life.

My H was at first a symathetic ear. Also, he did not judge OW at all responsible for her problems. OW's H was at fault... they both agreed.

H was also not looking for love in all the wrong places. H never ever imagined leaving me for OW. H did feel love for OW, but never wanted to marry her.

H mostly saw his A as an opportunity to explore something on the side. It sort of fell into his lap... and H was too alcoholic in his thinking at the time to fully think this through to the most likely conclusion. Disaster.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Neither were preditory in this A . Neither were victim to each other. Both volunteered for their role. Both were weak. Both had very poor problem solving histories. Both were short term pleasure seekers. Their A was an escape from reality.

But, it blew apart so many lives.

I really seldom think of her as anything but a person who hurts her own life ....

H and I might occasionally speak of OW or her H ... but usually in the context of a deeper discussion about people in general.

Thanks for listening.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My H was at first a symathetic ear. Also, he did not judge OW at all responsible for her problems. OW's H was at fault... they both agreed.

H was also not looking for love in all the wrong places. H never ever imagined leaving me for OW. H did feel love for OW, but never wanted to marry her.

H mostly saw his A as an opportunity to explore something on the side. It sort of fell into his lap... and H was too alcoholic in his thinking at the time to fully think this through to the most likely conclusion. Disaster. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep, I've never seen you write about your H like this...maybe you have, but this the first I've seen.

Did you know you could be writing my story as well? Only difference is that I wasn't alcoholic, but I was very depressed and on heavy ADs.

Of all the stories I read here, there are many similarities. But there are some striking differences. I was beginning to feel like I had some vestigial fog floating around up there because my story was little different than many. Hearing how similar your H's experience was is reassuring.

Thank you, Low

Is RM misguided or predatory?

When I'm angry or otherwise upset, I might use one or the other (or 2th) of those terms.

When I'm not, my favorite descriptive term for him is "S2PID!"

Just plain s2pid.

-ol' 2long