Some times ol' 2long gets all confused.

Like, I'm back home but we're in separate rooms. Penny suggested that, if I want 2 go sleep in OUR bed, I should go do so. I did like sleeping in the same bed as my W over the weekend when she came 2 visit me on my annual mtn outing. Even though it was cold and pretty uncomfy in general. But I kind of like having my own room (which is the master bedroom anyway, so it was our room before the fire). In some ways, I'd rather she come 2 me if she wants 2 sleep 2gether, rather than the other way around.

And my W isn't the kind 2 quickly accept "help" in going through withdrawal. Heck, 2night she was annoyed with me because "You won't let me talk 2 one person that I really want 2 talk 2". Guess my reaction? Okay, don't guess. I was kind, and asked for explanations. She feels like I'm robbing her of her right 2 make her own choices. Sound familiar? I didn't point out the irony of that, because it would have been a sarcastic lovebust, and I *am* at least improving in that area.

Over the weekend when she came 2 visit, I straight out asked her if she wanted me 2 come 2 her out of state property in a few weeks and help her out with her project (and do some goofing off of my own, 2). I had suggested I would like 2 come before, but she never really commented on whether she wanted me 2 or not. So I asked. She said "I don't care what you do. Do whatever you want. I'm going 2 do what I planned 2 do."

Now, it's hard 2 come up with positive responses 2 statements like those, but I do try. Mainly because I recognize what's happening, and I'm starting 2 feel some gladness that it's finallys started. I have no illusions, still, that I can or will want 2 save this marriage, but I do feel better about working at it now.

I also made a 2ple of interesting observations 2night. 1: From the way she said it, I think she's holding 2 our NC agreement, because if she wasn't, why tell me anything? 2: She was nice 2 me afterward. ...no, not nice in a SFish way (it's been 3.5 months now). But holding my hand a little tighter, reaching for it on her own... ...I felt a little respected for once, I guess.

DARN! I haven't finished my homework assignment from Penny, and I have 2 call her 2morrow! Oh well, I have some time in the morning I can put in2 it.

Interesting,
-ol' 2long

2long -

Glad to hear that you are feeling okay. I have been vacationing in Seattle, and have completely forgotten my problems for over a week. And the sad thing is, I really have not thought about my WH at all.

I guess that is part of recovery. Hang in there. Either you will be back with WW, or find someone else who deserves you.

Originally posted by 2long:

I straight out asked her if she wanted me 2 come 2 her out of state property in a few weeks and help her out with her project (and do some goofing off of my own, 2). I had suggested I would like 2 come before, but she never really commented on whether she wanted me 2 or not. So I asked. She said "I don't care what you do. Do whatever you want. I'm going 2 do what I planned 2 do."

May I?....

Translation:

Yes, I need you to be by my side. But I don't want to ask you outright, because I don't want to "need" you right now. So, when I say I don't care what you do.... don't take it literally. I do care. Please choose ME... although for the life of me I don't see what you see in me. I wouldn't choose ME right now if I were you.

Anywho.... that's what I "see", reading between the lines.

Go. Be there. Be loving. That's who YOU are 2Long. Be yourself.

Pep

Pep:

That's EXACTLY, word for word, what I've been thinking that means for some time now!

Thanks for the validation. It's hard 2 remember, being so close 2 the problem. It's even harder 2 be positive, when the comments can be so hurtful. When we're 2gether and she says something hurtful, the first impulse is 2 go elsewhere. Lately I've forced myself 2 stay put, though, and try 2 continue the convo. When I do, it's always helpful. ...got 2 keep doing it.

-ol' 2long

Remember, her hurting remarks to you come from her hurting place.

She's one tough WW ... not wanting to be in need of anyone or anything.

Be yourself. A softer kinder and more understanding 2Long.

When in doubt, shut-up and breathe.

Pep

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I just had another session with Penny. I think that my W will be impressed with the totally different, even unexpected way she looks at problem-solving.

...I think I'm even getting a little excited about telling my W about some of the ideas we discussed.

4ward-moving stuff.

Penny agreed: I should put effort in2 helping my W get her "dream" going, not just talking about it.

Remember what I said a while ago? "Actions speak, words don't." I said that again 2 my W recently, in reference 2 her remark about someone else we know talking about doing something but not ever starting the doing.

So, I've got more homework, but it's fun stuff (or at least it's a pleasant change from the stuckiness I've been dealing with for so long. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but being stuck hasn't worked yet).

-ol' 2long

Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but being stuck hasn't worked yet).

Yeah, and "It ain't over till it's over."

Is your last name Berri?

I think you are getting good advice - and I don't have anything to add. I think I had too much cookie dough over the weekend. Just wanted to say Hi.

So, Hi.

Tell me when you go to the OOSP, and I'll wave as you go by.

If I have my brain back tomorrow (small chance though) I may post something useful, but it's hard to know.


I do find it interresting that you want to go with her after many of the things you have said about that. It should tell you something.

SS

Pep,
You translate so well. It looks to me like 2long was looking for the same
answer from her - he wanted her to want him to come, but he didn't want to
say it. Isn't it the pits that he has to do the work, when he wants/needs
reassurance too.

Good thing he has been coming here, and realizes what is happening, or he
might cash in his chips one of these days when he is feeling down and
doesn't get a nice response.

2long, I am impressed, you are really starting to shine.

Oh, and Pep, you sure do a good job, did you realize that?

SS

SS:

"I do find it interresting that you want to go with her after many of the things you have said about that. It should tell you something."

It's all about focus. There are plenty of negative things I could focus on, and it's easy for negativity 2 take hold of thinking, such that I couldn't see a positive thing if it bit me on the nose (gee, would anything "positive" really bite?).

I really just want 2 be me. Just like my W wants me 2 let her be her. And so, I've got some finishing up 2 do on the OOSP house - a project I started with her last summer. There could be a lot of baddi2de associated with that project, because she contacted RM right after I left for home on one trip, but there is also some goodi2de. Like, she likes the work I did, and I like doing it. And, I just got a new scope (new about 25 years ago, that is) that's more portable than the ones I made, specifically 2 take there and gee whiz the faint fuzzies under a dark sky.

The fu2re lies ahead. I'll get there by changing the focus now. By helping her with her dream, rather than just talking about it, I just might help her through withdrawl. She might go through it quicker if she truly believes her goals are important 2 me, 2.

I've got nothing 2 "lose" by doing this, because I'll come out the other side a better person, no matter what she does.

If my son goes out there with her and I'm driving alone, I'll let you know, so we can scarf some of that good "desert chinese food" we shared last summer.

-ol' 2long

And then there's now.

Had a good evening 2gether. Watched TV 2gether and talked about her project.

Then I asked her if she'd like me 2 stay, and she said no. When I asked her why, she just said "I don't want 2 have this conversation now." So I left.

Penny suggested that I try 2 move back in2 our room sooner rather than later, but left it up 2 me, because I felt more comfortable where I am. But I did want 2 see how the idea would float.

So, I'm back in "my room". And it is more comfortable but I do feel hurt by the rejection without explanation, particularly since I asked for one.

Oh well. I'm going 2 go 2 bed now so I don't dwell on it 2 much. It all feels like such a waste of time right now.

-ol' 2long

But before I do, I want 2 note that I re-read what you wrote, Pep.

She is a tough WW, and hurts a lot, hence she seems 2 "like" hurting me like this.

It's hard, but I'll shut up and breathe.

-2long

Bring it up again later.

"Last night I asked why you didn't want me to stay, and you didn't want to talk. It really helps me if you talk to me about your feelings. I hope you can find a way to talk to me about it - would you would be willing to try this evening after dinner?"

I try all kinds of stuff until I find something that works. I am still trying on some issues, but others have been worked out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It has got to hurt, but try another angle.

SS

PS, I agree with Pep about breathing, please keep up the breathing.

PPS, I agree about the Chinese food. I think it would be best if you rode with her and talked, but if not - whose turn to buy?

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 12:43 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

I hate that you do everything right, ask nicely and then still get no closure. Especially hard for me since it took me 18 years to learn to ask at all and not just bury those feelings. But I have learned that if H is not ready to talk when I want I ask for a time when he will be willing to discuss it with me. I let him choose it but he must give me something. i.e. "tommorrow", "next week" anything and then he has to stick with it. It gives you an answer and helps you sleep tonight and it gives her some level of control.

km4:

I agree. And it's precisely because it 2k so long 2 get 2 this state of stuckness that it is so hard 2 get unstuck.

I'm accused of not letting her "be who she is", of needing her 2 behave in a way that she can't or doesn't want 2.

My W had always been an outgoing person. But because of our mu2al withdrawl from one another over 13 years, and her secret 2nd life, these days she just seems selfish 2 me.

And so we go. Hard 2 move forward in a positive way, but never more imperative than now that we do so.

-ol' 2long

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Then I asked her if she'd like me 2 stay, and she said no. When I asked her why, she just said "I don't want 2 have this conversation now." So I left.

OK... suggestion:

Whenever she rejects your advances.... willingly comply. Back off. No complaint. No negative body language. A smile and a wink! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

and then.... (hee hee hee)

CALL HER from another room in the house and say something really sweet and kind... or silly and funny. DEfuse the situation with love and humor. (NEVER sarcastic humor)

"You did look very pretty in those gardening shoes today! I think Martha Stewart might be jealous. Goodnight my sweetheart. See you in the morning."

then hang up.

NOone can argue with silly fun. It's very attractive, especially when one does nothing to earn it!!!!!!

Pep

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I saw a disk up in the air....

I have a UFO story for you - remind me next time I see you, and I'll tell it. It happened to me personally - so I know it's not fake.

My dad has a good one also, I can pass it on to you. I don't think it is classified any longer.

SS

and no, I am not kidding.

ss:

Okay, I'll listen... ...but really, "UFO" does stand for "unidentified" for a very good reason. A Cessna that I don't identify as such is a UFO so far as I'm concerned. At best, a UFO is simply not identifiable as anything in particulr. It might be a Cessna, a weather balloon, a silver disk that isn't there, or even Jesus on a cloud coming 2 take ol' 2long home. But which, is inconclusive.

Let's talk about crop circles next! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

Oh, I know, but wait until you hear the stories. I think you are in for it this time.

SS

crop circles?

Like tomatoes, and cantlopes? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SS

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>