I just checked recent visitors to this thread...

Inga... who is still reading...

"insight" ... has it come to you yet?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

deleted

<small>[ June 06, 2004, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Inga,

I do hope you will return and talk to us. If for nothing more than to face the faces who hurt during an affair.

I want to share something with you that may sound strange. I pray for nothing but the best of God's blessings for the OM. Yeah, sometimes I want him to get hit by a truck, or carried away in a tornado. But the reality of it all is all of us are created by a loving God, and if I'm going to love my wife, I also have to love others, including the OM.

So I pray that both my wife and the OM find the best God has to offer.

I also pray that God show me any defect of mine that makes me inferior to the OM, and that I will provide a safe place for my W to return.

Like I said, I don't blame myself for the affair, but I do own the responsibility for not meeting her needs. That's where I draw the line.

But I would never, in any honest effort, wish harm to my wayward wife or the other man.

I just hope you can understand that as well as the pain I feel about this situation. Perhaps you can find it useful in yours.

Tony

Is the drive through open? Some chicken nuggets would be good about now...

Let me hold a dollar, there, WAT?

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: LowOrbit ]</small>

How come I have this picture of Joe Pesci right now in the back of a late 80's early 90's Oldsmobile station wagon???

Tony

Inga,
I too am OW. I am also the WS (this is my second marriage). AND in my first marriage I was the BS. I have been having an affair for the past year. It is an EA and PA. He loves his W but he loves me too. I love my H but the feelings are not the same as they used to be (as he is verbally and mentally abusive. I found in my lover not only my best friend, but a wonderful lover. We meet each other emotional and physical needs. We are of the same mindset and have so much in common. People who have never been a OW or OM dont understand. Even though it is an adulterous relationship, it is still a relationship. It may be wrong morally and YES it is wrong in Gods eyes.. but it is still REAL.. VERY REAL. We talk, we laugh, we share, we love, we cry, we fight and we also make love. We have tried to give each other up so many times, but it is hard. Because its not like we wanted to, but because we KNOW we should. IT is the right thing to do. BUT just because it is the right thing to do, doesn't make it any easier. I hurt and I hurt deeply!! We said we were going to end it, but once again this week we found ourself in each others arms. BUT its not all sexual.. people have to understand there is an emotional love there. I am sitting here not only trying to tell you this, but trying to convience myself too that I should NOT be doing this. I know the same God that convicts me of our sin, is the same God that will heal my broken heart. I have cried and cried this morning... but that is ok.... it is! I must stop seeing him and I KNOW that. I must go through the steps to bring closure to my loss. I grieve because I had a positive experience in my life and now I have lost something that was important to me (even if it is WRONG) But again.. God hears my cries and he knows my heart. I MUST remember we are doing the right thing.
AND for those of you who want to bash her or me.. I too was once the BS (Betrayed Spouse) by my first H SEVERAL times. I KNOW what it feels like to have you heart ripped out by knowing your Hd not only had sex with OW but loved OW. I told myself I would NEVER do that to someone.. BUT I did!! BUT it wasnt like I intended to. I didnt mean to fall in love.. it just happened. BUT NOW.. by the Grace of God who forgives my sins.. I ask him for guideance and strength to do what is right!!!

born - you're experiencing the classic addiction characteristics.

I recommend you copy/paste your post over as a new post.

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> People who have never been a OW or OM dont understand. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can remember saying this. When I see it now, all I can think is "What the he11 was I thinking?"

Yeah, ending it hurts and is hard. But you do it like you do any other hard thing in life...

You take the first step.

Low

BUT it wasnt like I intended to. I didnt mean to fall in love.. it just happened.

Too weak ... You send yourself messages that tells yourself you are powerless...


Make self affirming statements that are empowering.

Give yourself permission to take control of your life.

Things don't just happen... it is a process you engaged in.

Like flirting... it leads somewhere... but you chose to flirt anyway..

See.... you ROB YOURSELF of your true potential

by saying "it just happened"...

Give yourself more credit than this!

Honor yourself by saying "I chose to become the other woman." At least be honest.

Pep

Ooops...dropped a chicken nugget. Claiming the five second rule...

Low

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: LowOrbit ]</small>

Got the happy meal for adults...love the toy

Low

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: LowOrbit ]</small>

Inga,
Just remember...if he did it with you, he will do it to you. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I know I am on a website DEDICATED to building marriages. The fact that I agree with a great deal of the relationship advice, guidelines, and ideals on the website might surprise a lot of you. Before, I never thought I would be in a situation like this, and I go through my mind over and over how I wound up here. Don't think that I am proud and flaunting this. I am not at all.


The fact that some of you are so judgemental and mean knowing nothing about me or the situation other than what I wrote in my original post amazes me. I didn't expect you to approve of me or what I've done, but to judge me knowing nothing is something I didn't expect. I don't expect anyone to be my friend. I just asked an honest question.

For the record, I am sorry for the role that I played in hurting the W. I am usually the person who is always thinking of others. So, don't think that I am not thinking of W and how she is and how I'm affecting her and her pain.

I'm not trying to play the victim here, either. So don't think that.

The fact of the matter is, that some M's do end due to EMA's. Whether that is right or wrong is a seperate issue that I think has a different answer for each relationship. For some M's, an EMA can be too much from which to recover. If that's the case, why does it have to be that the two that had the A should not be together?

Thanks to Low, Tony, StillHere, and Born for thought-provoking comments and questions that had good intentions behind them.

inga - are you posting over on TOW also?

There's a new member on TOW with the same name asking if MM's ever leave their W's for the OW. And if they do, does it work out?

Or something like that.

Yes, inga is posting over there (and telling hs eposted here).
Seems she found out about MB because the wife of the guy she is having an affair with is here or has counseled with MB.

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: shockednhurt ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The fact of the matter is, that some M's do end due to EMA's. Whether that is right or wrong is a seperate issue </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to disagree wiht part of your statement here, Inga.

Yes, it's quite true that some marriages collapse as a result of an EMA.

However, I disagree that whather it is right or wrong is a separate issue.

I do not believe that you can present any case to me that demonstrates that a marriage that ended bacause of an EMA was a good thing. I believe it is always wrong and tragic.

Part of the greatest guilt I've had to face is that my OW's family didn't make it. They divorced. The kids are batted back and forth between homes. I had a hand in that.

You are doing the same thing to MM's family. How will you handle the guilt of knowing you had a hand in destroying this family? Only a true miscreant wouldn't let theis bother them.

You can tell yourself all day long that his marriage is failing and his wife is a nag, but that does not lesson your responsibility for distracting him from trying to fix those issues.

You might not like to hear it, Inga, but you are nothing more than a diversion for him. A nice little dance in the park in the middle of his real life.

He may feel very real to you. But you are not real to him...regardless of what he tells you.

The minute you become real will be the minute he will start looking for another diversion to escape YOU.

Wake up, Inga. You're being used.

Low

Actually, most of us who post here know quite a bit about adultery, we've been studying both sides of it, some who post here were WS's themselves, some still are. The rest of us are married to WS's and HAVE made the effort to try to figure out the WS POV. We have learned that what the adulterers believe is 'true love' is just an addiction. We're well aware of how the addicted sometimes want to dwell on the pros of what they're addicted to, while downplaying the cons. We have learned the sort of things adulterers say to try to convince themselves and others that THEIR affair is the exception, that they've found their 'soulmate', blah-blah-blah. Funny thing though, they ALL think that and sound exactly the same, then they all find out they were wrong, it was just adultery and not the love of their life after all.

"but to judge me knowing nothing is something I didn't expect"

We aren't judging you so much as stating the facts, sharing info about adultery, and trying to help you get out of the mess you're in before even more damage is done. We aren't judging YOU, whom we know so little about; we are informing you that what you are doing is in fact wrong, hurtful, VERY unlikely to succeed.

Are you aware of the statistics? You're hoping this MM will (eventually...) divorce his wife and marry you, right? Has anybody told you that's what the 95-97% of OW who the MM did NOT marry thought too? And then about 80% of those adulterous marriages end in divorce anyway.
So do you REALLY believe that this MM who can't make up his mind between his wife and the OW, will (someday...) defy the odds, leave his wife, marry you, AND his marriage to YOU will be successful?!?

We're talking about a 20% chance of a 4% chance. Do the math. (I did - only 8 out of 1000 OW end up with a successful marriage to their adultery partner.)

BTW, do you KNOW the wife of the MM you're sleeping with? Have you allowed the MM to complain to you about his wife, behind her back? Do you assume he's telling you the truth about his wife/marriage? For all you know they could be very happily married, him NEVER wanting (let alone planning) to leave her. He may be just having a little fun on the side and telling you whatever he thinks you want to hear. In what ways may you be unfairly judging the wife?
If you are SO SURE that he belong s with you instead of with his wife, then why tell us? Go introduce yourself to his wife, in his presence, and tell HER! Tell him , in front of his wife, that he has to make a choice. Don't pretend to feel guilty about going behind his wife's back, tell her and at least it won't be a lie anymore.

You say you feel guilty and don't want to hurt his wife. We know the difference between false and genuine guilt. False guilt is to protect the perpetrators of the wrong-doing, to present themselves as somehow innocent or well-intentioned, to pretend they care, to somehow sanitize it. Genuine guilt results in true repentance and putting a stop to the wrongdoing, no excuses. You admit you think you DID something wrong... Yet you then go on to defend the continuance of the wrongdoing. You want to keep doing it, even though you acknowledge it is wrong and is hurting his wife, just because you want/enjoy what you're doing. The fact that you desire to sleep with another woman's husband does not magically make what you're doing OK.

I'm not sure what you came here looking for. This site is for saving marriages - not supporting adultery and destroying marriages. We won't condone what you're doing and even if we did, YOU would still know it's wrong.

You probably didn't approve of adultery before you got involved with this MM, right? And if you are one of those 3-5 out of a hundred OW that the MM actually leaves his wife for and marries, you probably won't want him to be unfaithful in YOUR marriage to him, right? So what you're trying to convince us (and yourself) of is that just for a little while, in these special circumstances, adultery and destroying a marriage is OK. And in order to do that you NEED to believe that THIS situation is special because the relationship you share with the MM is somehow extra special. It's not. Like ALL relationships, the madly 'in love' stage will end. Then you realize that you are in a relationship with somebody that you can't trust, that doesn't respect committment and honesty, that won't take the responsibility to BUILD a successful marriage. And you already KNOW what HE will do in that situation, don't you?

Also, have you considered that part of your feeling that this man, this relationship, is special enough to toss aside common sense, decency, honesty, morals, etc. is simply because in order to continue what you're doing you'd have to come up with a really good excuse like that? How sure are you which is cause and which is effect? Your justification is it should be OK for you two to be together because you 'love' him... In general women don't take sex as casually as males do. We are more likely to only have sex with men we love, but sometimes we reverse that by telling ourselves we love somebody just because we had sex with him (not wanting to think of ourselves as the type who would have meaningless sex). How sure are you that if you had met this man when he was still single, that you still would have fallen so deeply in love with him, wanting to marry him?
Don't you think it's kind of odd that people in adulterous relationships describe them as being so much stronger 'love' than they've experienced before? Why is it so hard to break up when it's adultery? Why do you think that adultery has such an addiction problem with it? Maybe it's the forbidden fruit thing? Maybe the adulterers are addicted to the chemicla high from sneaking around? Or maybe it's because knowing in the beginning that it can't or shouldn't lead to anything permanent ironically allows the people to share more and become closer without the normal fear of committment that would inhibit them and cause htem to put walls up?

What I find interesting is that almost without exception, the people involved in adultery have taken little to no initiative to actually read or learn anything about adultery. They almost presume they invented it, in the 'but OUR relationship is different' sense. They seem so determined to ignore the advice or experiences of others who've been there, done that (or who have at least educated themselves about it). I honestly don't know if this is peculiar to adultery addictions or do people fighting other sorts of addictions employ the same sort of excuse to initially resist the help offered?

I understand you may feel that we have pounced on you. But it's just so frustrating for us to be presented with the same old scenario time and again, to see the same excuses and justifications used, and what we KNOW will help being ignored. It's sad to see people choosing to increase the suffering caused by adultery, when they know they're hurting others, and they just won't stop. AND we also know that YOU will not end up with what you wanted anyway...that YOU will suffer more guilt and emotional pain the longer you delay ending the adultery.

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

Hmmmm....

'Inga" is posting at TOW too?

"Gina" is the name of my WH's current OW
(OW # 7 - yet WH and OW are SO SURE that THIS time it's THE special 'love' of their lives...LOL)

And I have told my WH about both the MB and TOW sites several times...

If it is you Gina, you should know that my husband is once again saying he broke up with you for good (he says a couple of months ago).
And as far as I know, only two of his relatives even know you exist and he told them he only dated you for 2 months last spring and broke up with you for good last July. He told me and our daughters he never planned to marry you.
A couple of months ago he left a message on my cell phone thanking me for standing by him. And he's still 'undecided' - sometimes wants to come home. He still asks me to go out with him too.
Of course if you wanted to know the truth instead of pretending to believe whatever he tells you I would have gotten a call from you, right?

BTW, if you want I can give you info about some of the other OW he's had. (Note he didn't marry any of them either.) Maybe you'll believe what they have to tell you if you won't listen to me?

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

I had no intention of replying to "inga" because something about this post made me want to leave it completely alone. I often do reply to WWs, being a FWW myself. Just shows how your gut instincts sometimes really work.

Jenny

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>