BB2, "OW - Closest friend" ... NOT!

hugs, c

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by clarkie:
<strong> BB2, "OW - Closest friend" ... NOT!

hugs, c </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Clarkie -

My Ow broke up w/ her longtime BF one month before my hell began. My brother was here visiting, she set her sites on him, he declined. He went home to my Mom, first person that walked by her, she'd pounce.

My brother went on to say that she was pathetically jealous of me, wanted my life, but the sad thing was even if WH wanted her & she got him, she still would not have my life, because she wasn't ME! So friend - I definitely would say NO WAY!

BB2

And so it has begun . . .

HE also said, "Judge not, lest ye be judged"

Ease up a bit, people. I am a BS and go over to TOW site. I have registered and occasionally post there. I originally went there for some insight into my WW&#8217;s motives and actions, thinking that it would be like getting a look at the other side&#8217;s playbook. At times the posts are tough to read, but I have always gotten honest though often painful answers to my questions. The OW there have helped me to understand just how strong the power of the A can be.
Just like here, you will find people in and out of all A stages. Most care no more about the BS than we do for them. But most of the women (and some men) who are currently in As there are very much in love with their A partners. It&#8217;s difficult to hear, but don&#8217;t doubt it. Those who are in NC or the early stages of withdrawal struggle with it in the same way we do here. Those who post in the Endings section are hurting and trying to find a way to move on.
If there is one positive I have found on the TOW site it is that very few there would ever advise anyone to begin an A. On every occasion when someone new has posted that they are considering an A, the advice is always the same. RUN, and don&#8217;t look back.
I cannot sympathize with those at TOW. They are either our WS, or would not be there if not for our WS. Most will live to regret the decisions they have made.
23down

"If there is one positive I have found on the TOW site it is that very few there would ever advise anyone to begin an A. On every occasion when someone new has posted that they are considering an A, the advice is always the same. RUN, and don’t look back."

MANY "will regret..."

good post 23D, hugs, c

Isn't it amazing that people who often quote the Bible obviously haven't read or understand it!

When God tell us not to judge, what He's saying it not to judge people's motives. Only God knows the heart. We can judge people's actions. Why do you think He set up a judicial system. (Duh read the book of Judges)

Twisting and isolating scripture to use to one's own advantage has always been around. I continue to be shocked at how people can twist scripture to justify their behavior, but the bottom line is we'll all be accountable for our own actions when we stand before God. No excuse will work there-not childhood abuse, not emotional needs being met, or not genetics causing bad behavior. While that gives me solice it also terrifies me.

Going to TOW and trying to "educate" is a waste of time. You can't communicate with the dead-people who are dead to the truth. It's incredibly sad and I thank God that I'm not in that mess because by the grace of God, go I.

I never heard of the TOW site, but from everyones comments I don't think I even want to go there. I spent way too much time trying to understand why he lied to me.

I saw a movie once where and Amish man said that the Amish don't try to understand evil, they turn their head away from it. Because by understanding evil, you risk becoming it.

I love this site because I need to understand how people remain faithful and how they keep themselves from hurting other people. I want to relate to people who have it together and have learned what it means to be honest and strong. And also what it takes to get there.

I don't even know how I found this site, but I'm glad I did!

About a month ago I found a sent e-mail from my H to someone on the MB site. This person had recommended a site WSs could go to where they would be with like minded people who are struggling too. At the time H was heavy into withdrawal. I don't think he ever got the site address, and I now wonder if it was the site mentioned here. All I can say is I'm glad he didn't. It sounds like more justification and encouragement to just go back to the A because it's God's will. I don't think I'll be visiting this site in the future. CV

CV55 -

I truly wish I didn't! I laid awake most of last night and thought way too much about what was going thru my former friend's head. She claimed to hate my WH, claimed that he was stalking her - but why was she sleeping with him??

I will never go back - definitely no help in understanding that side of A. Just caused more damage to my ever over-analysing brain! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Okay, I've avoided it for months, but you guys made me have to check it out.

SOME of the posters bothered me, but that's common everywhere.

HOWEVER, I did find SOME help in it as well. Let me tell you why, it FUELED me, and my anger. And I can rant and rave when my FWH isn't around because we ALL need to vent, as much as we can, without LB. I didn't flame there... boy was I tempted, but I won't sink to that level.

They do alot of MB bashing over there, which I don't think is right, BUT... MB paved the way to recovery for us, so they can call it what they want, and criticize all they want. Harley saved my marriage...maybe that's why they hate him so much, because in the end, if Harley's methods DO succeed, what are they left with?

I also went to the site (could not resist!)...and honestly just felt empty. Not angry (although I am the BS)...their lives just seem very empty....kind of like mine right now.

Part of me would like to hate the OW, but I can't. I just feel sorrow, and sadness. All I really want to do is heal, and that's what is so sad about that site...there is no healing possible there (and I guess if there are lurkers from that site reading this, they will probably flame me. Fine)

cc

PUKE. BARF. BLECK!

Checked it out.

Not ever doing that again. Not worth it.

They are lost, and going there will not help them be "found."

Betrayed. I don't need to go to the dark side to know it exists. I've been living under its reign for a year now. CV

SerendipiT -

I read your post on Inga's thread - I felt the exact same way. I am sorry I posted this thread - I think I made alot of people go where they probably shouldn't. I also see some of the TOW posters here. So Arch was right.

What bothered me so much was that the TOW posters love Plan B and with me heading that way - I guess nerves got the best of me. Also, my OW called my 70 yr old mother and left a nasty call requesting "she get her ******' daughter out of California".

Love the new name, by the way Chrissy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Inspiring! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
BB2

Betrayed, I posted on the other thread (Inga) my feelings re: that site.

I did check it out. I am astonished that someone even created it and have to wonder about the values, outlooks, and mental state of the creator of the site. I also noticed the "F" word everywhere, constantly. I also thought that very few posts lacked much depth or substance. It struck me that... well, how much can you say when you are having an affair? It's like going to a prison where people have committed crimes. You don't hear lots of encouraging, positive, depthful conversation going on... except with those who have humbled themselves and seen their crimes as wrong and want to change (they've repented).

When what someone is doing is wrong, their heart is hardened and their mind is deceived... and I also think their "claws" are out and they are defensive and not in a healthy state of mind. They lack peace and they are defensive because they don't want to hear that what they are doing is wrong. That's what I sensed among alot of them on that site.

But I also felt very, very sickened to my stomach and just "gross" after reading there. There is a huge difference between a person who's had an affair and either felt bad or repented and the one who's having/had an affair and is boastful, without shame, without regret, and/or justifies it... and that was how alot of those women there seemed. To me, well, there is evil in that and after reading there, I felt like I'd been in the presence of evilness.

Anyways, I am glad that your husband responded to you like he did when you shared with him how you felt. I am sorry that you went there and pray that God will wipe the memory of it from your mind and give you an overwhelming peace of mind.

I also wanted to comment on something someone here said (can't remember the name... it had a 23 in it). They said, "If there is one positive I have found on the TOW site it is that very few there would ever advise anyone to begin an A. On every occasion when someone new has posted that they are considering an A, the advice is always the same. RUN, and don’t look back." And then someone else (I think it was "Clarkie") said that they'd mention regret.

However, from what I read... well, there is a poll there asking if they'd do it again (the affair) and the majority said "yes." I sensed very little regret at all. The only "regrets" were that many of them, in the end, didn't get their "man"... either he stayed with his wife or they broke up anyways or he had another affair. It wasn't regret expressed over hurt caused towards a wife, but hurt that they themselves were left with. I also saw very little of anyone asking advice on a possible affair. I did see though posts like one that said the man was leaving the wife and all the posters congratulated the woman. Wow... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Personally, I saw nothing positive in that site. And any heartache/regret expressed there wasn't heartache over what they'd done (the affair) but was heartache over the man not leaving his wife and regret that they'd gotten involved with a married man with the hopes he'd leave and then he didn't. The regret was 100% self-centered... all about what they lost, not over the losses that they caused by having the affair.

God bless you Betrayed and I pray that God gives you peace and comfort.

(I also highly recommend others do NOT go there).

<small>[ June 06, 2004, 04:22 AM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

I went there too....and I actually feel sorry for those people! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

How could anyone live in such denial, and with such lies and call it "love"...? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I think a lot of parents must NOT be teaching their children morals while growing up today.....could be because of such high D statistics they don't have the "time" for raising good, decent children to be moral adults!!

It's a shame....I really pity these people who think being 2nd fiddle is somehow a "soul-mate" position!!?.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

My "head image" of the OW was so reinforced by my visit there..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I'm wondering how my H could have lost his mind for the short per. of time that he did??? OW has got to feel soooooo USED!

TOW is not a place to go if your still struggling to get to recovery...IMO. It could very well be a good learning ground after one has been in true recovery for several months. Otherwise it may trigger you beyond belief!!!

Life in "reality" and truth is so much sweeter. No lies. No deceit!!

Blessings,
Atruheart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My opinion only to follow....

I really think that bashing the OW site accomplishes nothing. I know that fresh after discovery I hated the OM. I understand the hurt but holding onto the fact that OP are evil scums is unrealistic. How many of us knew the OP, were friends with them or even related to them. Crap happens to all of us.

In my case I chose, by default, to not pay attention to my wife like I promised. She chose to have an affair. We have to live with the choices we make and often times with the one's others make as well. I have been to that site twice once after I discovered my wife's A and once from this thread. Later I became a WS....read the history for background.

People hurt. Just as we like to come here and vent about the OP, TOW is a place for them to vent about our spouses.

I lived through a year and a half of my W's A. I know how hard was for her to let go of the OM. I have no doubt that it hurt her immensely. I think that what they did was wrong and in most cases I think that they, our spouses included, didn't set out to have an affair.

We are free to to express our opinions here and disagree with whatever we want as our they. On both sites there are those that are hurt and post with the pure emotion that they are feeling at that moment. And there are those that post to them calming them down.

I'm not defending their actions, just the fact that they can feel how they feel. I have seen some pretty outrageous behavior on this site. Just because we are on this side of the A, doesn't put us on moral highground.

just my $.01

God Bless

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LoveMyEx:
When what someone is doing is wrong, their heart is hardened and their mind is deceived... and I also think their "claws" are out and they are defensive and not in a healthy state of mind. They lack peace and they are defensive because they don't want to hear that what they are doing is wrong. That's what I sensed among alot of them on that site. [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is exactly what I was looking for at that site. I did not go there to bash anyone. I went to seek the why? My OW was a friend, I wanted answers about why she could do this, why was she so cruel now and then. She is calling my 70 yr old mother leaving nasty messages - no one is calling her. She was like family - it hurts so much that I loved and cared for her and I felt like I meant absolutely nothing to her.

I know I have to let go of that thinking - I am nothing like that - I will never have all the answers and the only thing I can do - is learn from the past, change for the better, and move to a better place.

I have always lived my life with NO REGRETS and I intend to grow w/ what God has given me. The A happened for whatever reason and I think there are many answers that will never be enough for my whys. The A was not about me - it was about my H and his issues. What I need to do is help him find him. And just love him.

I definitely think we belong here and the OW/OM belong on their site. They do need assistance as do we. Going there did not accomplish anything. What I needed I got from MB.

Thank you all so very much <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
BB2

<small>[ June 06, 2004, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: betrayed by 2 ]</small>

This thread is so full of pain that I don't know where to begin. So... I'll just try to get to a couple of points, and hope that y'all will fill in the blanks.

I was the OP. I know the struggle and awful feelings that go with loving someone you're not "supposed" to love.

I was the wayward one. And I am the betrayed. Not in the ways that most people here were wayward or betrayed, but that's a story for another time and place.

What I do know is that no one is free of pain -- the affair triangle is agony for everyone involved. What we call love is often just a desperately needy clinginess. What we call hate is often that desperate need turned inside out and upside down.

Compassion for the other person is, perhaps, the best thing in the world. Compassion -- combined with acceptance that the dynamics between the people in the relationships of a marriage/affair mix are incredibly painful and intense at the same time -- will allow you to see more of the truth as it really is, without judging it.

A lot of the pain on this thread has turned into disrespectful judgments of the people who post on TOW site. Because the OW might actually love your WH -- might actually believe that your kids will be okay -- might really think that your marriage is a destructive place.... is not a reason for disrespectful judgments.

Never mind that you think the OW or OM "deserves" it and that you "had" to vent. Consider, instead, your own pain and despair. That's what drives these attacks, isn't it? It's the fear, the awful sinking terror, that they might be right, that the OW really, truly believes these things and maybe they're actually right.

Maybe they are.

Does that eliminate your pain? Does it eliminte THEIR pain? Does it make things any easier on the wayward one who is caught in the most terrible of situations, where there is NO WAY to avoid hurting someone you love?

Nah. Being right really doesn't help one bit in this situation.

Finding compassion and serenity does.

So... really FEEL the pain that you may feel when reading TOW site. Really feel the pain that you may feel when reading these words. It's not going to work to rationalize that pain away. It's not going to work to attack it away. It's not even going to work to express it away (thought that's the closest to the mark). It's going to stay with you until you accept that it's there. Until you really, truly accept the pain of these moments and know that this pain isn't going to heal today or tomorrow or next year. It's always going to be here, in some form. Maybe dormant, maybe active, it's WITHIN you and no matter how far you run, it's still going to be there.

Better to sit with it and listen to it than to use it to attack other human beings.