During this week, Onlywords asked the following questions regarding romantic love in M: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I still am wondering about the romantic feelings side of marriage...if that is a fleeting immature love, then why does this MB site have a guaranteed way to make you fall in love with your spouse again? Why is it something that is so important to so many people, the loss of which we grieve, the thing we crave so badly, but are told will not last and will be replaced by a different but deeper love? If so, then why bother trying to get back those feelings? So confusing.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On another thread this week I’ve posted that (in my opinion): “In love” is the same as infatuation and a chemical response to attraction we experience as a feeling of love. If a relationship progresses, the chemicals that cause the initial feelings of ‘in love’ eventually 'dry up', and if the relationship is to continue, then another kind of love takes it's place: A committed, stable affection that can grow deeper (hopefully) throughout the years. This is the real glue that holds a relationship together for the long term. And it's based on trust, truth and respect (among other things). So, in my opinion “in love” feelings is just temporary and characterizes the “honeymoon” stage of a relationship. If the relationship is to continue a more stable & mature love will take it’s place.

But after I’ve read the questions of Onlywords, I started wondering if there is not a big difference between the “in love” feelings one experience in the beginning of a relationship and the “in love” feelings in a committed, stable, matured and long-term relationship like a marriage? Is it really possible to have those “in love” feelings with your S again like you first started dating and experienced that overwhelming “chemistry”? Isn’t “in love” in the beginning of a relationship just infatuation & immature, “puppy love”? And isn't “in love” feelings in a long-term, happy relationship the committed, stable affection and attraction a couple experience towards each other which can only grow deeper throughout the years?

I will appreciate any opinions on this since I also have a confusion about this in my own M.

Thank you,
Suzet

<small>[ June 11, 2004, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>

JMHO...No, I dont think that you can recreate the feelings of new love. But I do think that people can become addicted to the "new love butterflies" and that is why some people find themselves in extracurricular activities. They need to have that pheremone high. Lets face it...there is a high that comes along with new love. I've been in a relationship for a year and 4 months...the "umphfffff" as I term it is still there, but not as intense as it was in the beginning. I look at our relationship now as the real mcCoy...now comes the challange cuz the fluff is gone so to speak. We both know what it takes to sustain a healthy relationship and we go to that deeper level of love. It changes...but in a good way

This is a good thinking process Suzet. Because we learn about love as we mature. Before we get married, we have had the puppy kind of love, the adrenaline rushes. We learned to pick the ones we enjoyed the most/disliked the most. Then came to know a mate whom we loved in that way and more...we trusted them with our present and enough to promise them our FUTURE. Now is that foolish kind of love?

When you have been married for ten years, you have learned a lot. When you have been married for fifteen, and have shared so much - nothing in this world can replace, as time changes the events in life. The choices we make are evident in the kind of life we share together. Whether we work on things together or not.

But the love can get very exciting even after many years. I know! It is so good for our children to see how in love we are now.

Choices are very important.

Ruby & Cardinal,

Thanks to both of you for your input, I appreciate it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Anyone else who wants to comment on this topic, please do so! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Greetings, Suzet

Suzet said: " I will appreciate any opinions on this since I also have a confusion about this in my own M. "

What are you confused about in your own M? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Cardinal,

I’ve said that because after I’ve first started dating my H, I’ve never developed that overpowering ‘chemistry’ and ‘lust’ feelings for him. The love for my H was something that started and developed slowly & calmly to ‘mature’ love. I felt romantic feelings for him, but not very excessively... I have never experienced that overpowering “in love” feelings, although I loved (and still love) my H very much… Also, before I get married to my H, I’ve never experienced that overpowering “in love” feelings for someone else either. I don't know why and it's bothering me sometimes. How could I never developed those feelings for my H or anyone else, but I've developed those feelings for OM, someone I DIDN'T want to develope it for? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ June 14, 2004, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Is it really possible to have those “in love” feelings with your S again like you first started dating and experienced that overwhelming “chemistry”?

I think so. I don't think that the "in-love" feelings are some kind of cosmic, chemical or divine bait and switch. And yes those feelings can go away...if we let them. This is where my lovely wife and I messed up. We relied on those initial feelings and rode them till they wore out. No "need-meeting", no questionnaires at all. Needless to say, one day we both woke up (not the same day unfortunately) and discovered that this wasn't exactly what we pictured marriage to be like.

I think those feelings have returned for us because we have put so much time and emphasis on really getting to know each other. Understanding her needs and helping her to understand mine.
People have layers...like onions.....or Ogres.

Isn’t “in love” in the beginning of a relationship just infatuation & immature, “puppy love”?

Infatuation is defined as: to cause to be foolish : deprive of sound judgment.
According to this definition I guess I am in a constant state of infatuation : )

It is also defined as: to inspire with a foolish or extravagant love or admiration.

Foolish OR extravagant????? So maybe there is more than one kind of infatuation....crap another thread idea. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I buy this definition easier. I said once that if love is blind, infatuation is blind, deaf and dumb. When we are infatuated with someone (or something) you don't get the whole picture. You see want you want to see because you know if you looked too hard there is something that just isn't right with the situation.
In the case of my A my thought process went like this...She is beautiful, kisses good, athletic, she was a teacher and is almost 10 years younger than me. When in actuality she wasn't near as pretty as my wife, she was just coming out of a divorce, I knew she had messed around on her ex husband (a lot), she was already thinking about marrying another guy and her being 24 years old, our priorities were a little different.

I think it is the first step but I don't think it has to go away. I think I love my wife pretty extravagantly.


And isn't “in love” feelings in a long-term, happy relationship the committed, stable affection and attraction a couple experience towards each other which can only grow deeper throughout the years?

Yes, all of those but with more too. It is also the feelings you get when your spouse winks at you from across the room. Or when they wear the perfume/cologne they knows you love. Or when they walk behind you in the kitchen and whisper "I want you" in your ear. Those give me the chills, butterflies and the feeling of kid on Christmas Eve, all rolled up together.

This post rambled and because work kept interrupting it took me like an hour to write.

I think that just as our bodies change, so does marriage challenges. If you have children, the blessing is there. You have stretched your love to incorporate a family, where once there was just two adults. The love is beyond description.

Marriage goes through maturation. As I was talking to my mother about aging, and regard our life as a metamorphosis. We are young and we learn. We age and we learn more. Our bodies change, and our ideas and thoughts become focused upon those things of importance to us.

What we value as human beings in our lives is a full reflection of what we care about in it. Our grievances, feelings of what is just and right in the world are reflected in our day to day functioning.

I guess addictions to getting more and more of anything will lead us astray. Whether it be an activity, or a food, or a chemical addiction. If we love it too much, we lose sight of what would be the better choices in our life. It can really screw you up. So, at that point ...letting go of a habit is a good idea. If you find you cant let it go so easy, it is the problem I think.

You spoke of " overpowering “in love” feelings". That is a key to something for you Suzet. Do you get MC from a professional? Does your H read this material here at this site?

When we can share our deepest feelings with our own H, then you are developing trust which we need in our M for it to be strong.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I still am wondering about the romantic feelings side of marriage...if that is a fleeting immature love, then why does this MB site have a guaranteed way to make you fall in love with your spouse again? Why is it something that is so important to so many people, the loss of which we grieve, the thing we crave so badly, but are told will not last and will be replaced by a different but deeper love? If so, then why bother trying to get back those feelings? So confusing. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
The above words from onlywords: Initially, I didn't think much about them. We talked a little and I tried to compare them to a dog. Such as when a puppy is young, they are very full of energy, bounding and hard to control. When a puppy grows up and matures into a dog, they lose a lot of that "playfulness" and energy. Isn't that where the term "puppy love" came from? She didn't think that was a very good analogy. Because of this, I've spent a lot of time pondering the above statement over the last couple of days.

First, wondering if she was questioning her initial feelings of love for me, again. I think I've come to the conclusion that she is just trying to understand. (Something that I've been trying to do regarding the A.) I've spent time just gazing at her recently. Something I haven't done in forever. I even told her Friday that IILWY. She turns me on incredibily! I can look at her sexy legs, the curve of her stylish hair or she just bends over to pick something up and pop. Yes, its that easy for me. I know that's not love, but what's behind it is because it's not like when some super model comes on tv like I have that happen. Even when I'm around other good looking women, I don't have that (at least not visually).

I can remember my first college roommate hounding her like a dog, daily, constantly. He thought he was God's gift to women. (I don't know why he thought that. It's not like he was gifted physically, about 5' tall with platforms and no more than anyone else downstairs.) But he constantly followed the pre W around like he was her puppy. I can remember some days he'd come back to the dorm all pissed off because she ignored him or something and the next day he was on cloud 9 (got a peck on the cheek from her or the like). I said to my 2nd roommate, that he wasn't to let me ever go out with her. I'm not even really sure why I said that at the time. I knew then that I was physically attracted to her. He!!, she was one of the two or three finest looking chicks in our class. But what was it that was there.

I can remember another time we went to a friends beach house over spring break for a get together of friends. While there his little 9 year old cousin kept asking us if we were going to get married and we weren't even dating at that time.

To me, these were things that I looked at and thought connected us as "soulmates." While it's true that I've been busting my hump in recent years and we've grown apart and this is at least partially what put us in this vulnerable state, I've never lost that fire for her. For me, I've never been the romantic type. I don't know why, I'm just not. And to this day, it bothers me how we got engaged.

(Ok, side story: We talked about getting married, looked at engagement rings, got it narrowed down to two (a tear drop and a regular cut with 2 adjacent mini diamonds) and then kind of left it at that for several weeks. This was between May and July after our Junior year in college. I was trying to come up with a good way to propose but hadn't fully planned anything. All I could think of was putting the ring in a Christmas stocking but that was months off. We had talked of getting married right after we graduated and were looking for a place to do it and have the reception. Things were booking quickly when I went to her house to visit over the summer (we lived 2.5-3 hrs apart). I got sick when I got there and was in bed Saturday morning. She was bugging me and just wanting to talk about when we would get married. I believe she wanted to go look at the rings again. Said she liked the tear drop one, of course I had gotten the other one and had it with me. Well, somehow I let it slip that I had picked it up. I think she thought I was smart enough to get the tear dropped one, but I wasn't. Well, anyhow she kept ragging on me so I made her sit on me while I was laying in bed and I gave it to her. I don't even remember if I asked her to marry me, but it was just stupid and awful. I could at least have waited and taken her out to dinner and proposed then, but I didn't. It's the one regret I do have to this day.

Well, that's kind of off base from where I was initially heading with my reply to this post. Maybe I'll try to come back to it later. Sorry so long and rambling.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by d-rose:
<strong> So maybe there is more than one kind of infatuation....crap another thread idea. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">D-ROSE, thanks for your post and insight, I appreciate it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I hope you don’t think this thread was a ‘crappy’ idea. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally poste by Recovering H:
<strong> Well, that's kind of off base from where I was initially heading with my reply to this post. Maybe I'll try to come back to it later. Sorry so long and rambling.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Recovering H, thanks to you as well. I don’t mind long posts and yours was definitely not rambling! You’re welcome to continue your post when you have time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cardinal:
<strong>You spoke of overpowering “in love” feelings". That is a key to something for you Suzet. Do you get MC from a professional? Does your H read this material here at this site?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cardinal, thanks for your interest and willingness to listen...I appreaciate it... No, we didn’t receive any MC (I only received IC for personal issues). Also, my H doesn’t read the material on this site out of his own. I have encouraged him in the past to post and read here, and he always says he will, but he never do it... In the beginning, after I’ve discovered this website, I have made the effort to print out most of the material on this website and showed it to my H, but H still haven’t take the time to read it properly. So, sometimes I will print out some articles and material and read it to him myself. When I do this, he shows interest and listen, but again, he won’t take the time to read it out of his own. On one stage, I printed out the ENs questionnaires and we both filled it in, but things never progress further than this... My H and me are not unhappy in our M... We do spend time together and we enjoy each other’s company; we are best friends; we trust each other; we do have a strong affection towards each other etc. It’s just…sometimes I feel there is something missing in our M…that things can be so much better than this... Sometimes I feel me and my H behave like an old, happily married couple…and we are just 7 years married yet... Me and my H are affectionate towards each other and we do show our love to each other…but sometimes I feel the ‘spark’ is missing... This is something I really miss in my M and I think my H miss it too... Sometimes we have good & passionate sex, but sometimes weeks will go by without having any sex or the desire for sex (on my part)… Is this normal for a couple who are only 7 years married, who are in their early thirties and have no children? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ June 15, 2004, 04:23 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Suzet,

I hope this works..........
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=014926


You might want to read what I posted. I find it very interesting.

I don't know if it's normal what you are going through after being married for only 7 years. I can only say that the "spark" in our marriage tends to "come & go".

It isn't always there but it "always" does come out of the dark. Sometimes more and sometimes less.
We've been married for almost 25 years and we've known each other since 30 years.

But as I said, you might want to read what I posted over in Recovery. It makes so much sence to me.........

take care
bb

Blondblossom,

Thanks for that link, it helped and it does make “logical sense” to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Maybe with my H I have skipped some stages and have moved to the attachment stage (last stage) directly. For one or other reason I can’t experience ‘lust’ or ‘attraction’ (the first two stages you have mentioned in your thread) without feeling a strong emotional attachment towards someone first… These things can really get complicated and so many things doesn’t make sense to me either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ June 15, 2004, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

This is a great thread.

Onlywords phrased very well what I have also wondered, and what Suzet is apparently struggling with herself. I have questions, too.

I'm willing to believe that the "in love" or infatuation or dizzying new-love stuff is ephemeral. After all, you're in love with the unknown, and mostly with what hopes you're projecting onto the newly found object of your desires. So of course this can't last. This is what I call infatuation.

I hear long-time married couples talk about how love waxes and wanes, and I'm willing to believe that, too.

But if that early stuff is fleeting, WHAT is the long-lasting love waxing into occasionally? And the guaranteed way to make you fall in love with your spouse -- WHAT kind of "in love" is that?

I've been in two long term relationships (16 years and 9 years) and they both started very high, then kind of roller-coastered downhill from then on. Ups and downs but overall a decided downhill trend.

I love my H. He's my best friend. I enjoy his company. Overall I trust him, I'm comfortable with him. But I rarely feel any little adrenaline rush for him any more. Occasionally he'll say or do something really sweet, and I feel that heart-tug. I think that's what onlywords and Suzet are wondering about, and I think that's what this site claims to be able to recapture. That special "us"-world that couples sometimes feel. Not the great business partners, best fraternity/sorority buds feelings, but that feeling that excludes the rest of the world and only exists between the couple. That little stomach flip, that little heart skip. The little invisible strings that always run across time and space from one heart to the other, tying the two together. I feel that sometimes with my H, but rarely. And it grows less and less over the years. And I want it back.

I'm not talking about dizzying ecstasy - I'm talking about a calm, serene, special "knowing".

If your husband is receptive to you reading new information, sharing this material, then you have a beginning. What is different between your marriage and your friendships is the sacredness of it.

I know that there were times when I felt quite alone, even while my H was laying beside me in our bed. It was sad. I used to cry.

We did not work at the problem, but worked around it. Which enabled the wrong events to happen in our marriage. Sin hurts when you're in it. The question is what to do to make the marriage what (I believe) God intended it to be for the man and the woman who made the vow to each other.

We need to spend time on each other, truly care about the need of each. The PoJA is a mode of cutting through the feelings which cause us loneliness.

I believe prayer helped me, and eventually him. It was no easy fix. We had MC.

When we try to get those fifteen hours of undivided attention each week, at first seems impossible. But the more we do it the more we learn how important the other half of us is.

Our marriage is not some glorified friendship. If you married in a church governed by the teachings of the Bible, I do believe it has much potential.

Barriers to the fully loving marriage are all over the place. Media, porn, political agendas, all seem to infiltrate our private space. So, when we concentrate solely on our spouse, it is indeed a special time to reinforce the good love that you have and can make, and prove over and over again.

Trust increases as we share our private time together. Thoughts and feelings that are shared between us are a haven. Love has never been better for us. It is so much more than I imagined.

Cardinal, thanks again for your post and insight. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Turtlehead, I will copy your post here again since I see you also have questions about this topic:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by turtlehead:
<strong> This is a great thread.

Onlywords phrased very well what I have also wondered, and what Suzet is apparently struggling with herself. I have questions, too.

I'm willing to believe that the "in love" or infatuation or dizzying new-love stuff is ephemeral. After all, you're in love with the unknown, and mostly with what hopes you're projecting onto the newly found object of your desires. So of course this can't last. This is what I call infatuation.

I hear long-time married couples talk about how love waxes and wanes, and I'm willing to believe that, too.

But if that early stuff is fleeting, WHAT is the long-lasting love waxing into occasionally? And the guaranteed way to make you fall in love with your spouse -- WHAT kind of "in love" is that?

I've been in two long term relationships (16 years and 9 years) and they both started very high, then kind of roller-coastered downhill from then on. Ups and downs but overall a decided downhill trend.

I love my H. He's my best friend. I enjoy his company. Overall I trust him, I'm comfortable with him. But I rarely feel any little adrenaline rush for him any more. Occasionally he'll say or do something really sweet, and I feel that heart-tug. I think that's what onlywords and Suzet are wondering about, and I think that's what this site claims to be able to recapture. That special "us"-world that couples sometimes feel. Not the great business partners, best fraternity/sorority buds feelings, but that feeling that excludes the rest of the world and only exists between the couple. That little stomach flip, that little heart skip. The little invisible strings that always run across time and space from one heart to the other, tying the two together. I feel that sometimes with my H, but rarely. And it grows less and less over the years. And I want it back.

I'm not talking about dizzying ecstasy - I'm talking about a calm, serene, special "knowing". </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">