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First time poster here. I just lately discovered this board and web site and I am just getting started with the program. I have a burning question but a little background first. Found out my W has had a LTA (8+ yrs).with her boss at work as well as numerous IA'S. I long suspected it was happening but just found out for sure last Feb. We have been going to counseling for several years with no results. I want to start plan A but I am self employed and W has benefits through work for me and kids. She has said that she would quit but she would be a stay at home mom and we need her income. She has said that she will not get another job. My question is... Am I living a pipe dream thinking that we can fix and rebuild our marriage with her continuing to work with him or do we need a major lifestyle change to accomodate a 1 person income? She has stated that she is committed to our relationship but I am not sure that it can be done with him in the picture? Any comments appreciated. Thx Brad!

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Hate to be the voice of reality here but you ARE kidding yourself if you think things will get better while WW and OM work together.

How bad do you want this marriage to work?

As far as whether she gets a different job or not that is up to you both. Somewhere on the main part of this site it talks about finding a marriage counslor and what the cost is. Read it, it's eye opening. You might also want to brush up on the policy of joint agreement and the part on negotiations before discussing the pros and cons with her.

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BRING YOUR WIFE HOME NOW...this will at least tell her that you love her and your not keeping her in bondage with her boss who is taking advantage of her sexually.

If my H did not want me to quit immediately, I would feel like a prostitute and H my pimp.

Truth hurts, but this is how I would feel.

struggling...Laura

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Dude -

I speak from experience and a great deal of pain on this subject.

After my H's A I did not make him quit his job. It was too much of a guilt thing for me. He has worked so hard to be where he is. I begged and pleaded with him to leave in the beginning. I considered us in recovery when he told me that he would leave his job if I wanted him to.

I told him no. I said I do not want you to leave...we had just relocated and the thought of moving my girls again was too much for me to handle.

So here I am a few months after telling him that and I completely regret saying that. I can't stand the thought of him going to work with her every single day. It drives me insane. She is his boss and has taken to calling me at home and hanging up. I have a very successful career and since our move I work remotely and travel when needed. Having her call my house when she feels like it makes me crazy but there's nothing I can do about it without impacting my H's career.

We are now talking about my H going back on the frontline just to get away from here. It has taken us too long to make this decision. I'm now glad I never unpacked. It looks like we'll be leaving soon.

I'm telling you right now. You have to end any and all ties with this man if you want your M to work. She can find another job. You can find another job. Start looking today. Do not waste time. The longer you put this off the longer you will extend your pain and the recovery of your M will slip away.

I wish I had listened when others told me to do this months ago. Don't be like me. Let my pain speak to you and make the decision now to give your M a chance.

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Thx E and Laura. Laura, I did tell her she needed to quit and be apart from him and she refused, although I did it in the anger of the moment and since I found this site I have learned I need to be more calm and negotiate better. Had I done that it may have resulted in a better response. We have yet to begin our plan A. I was interested in if anyone had any luck with plan A if the lover was still hanging around. I already know the answer but was courious nonetheless. Thx!

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First time on this site...see "is this common". Anyhow, the my opinion is she should leave the job/want to leave if she wants the marriage to work. But if you force it...they'll only be resentment in the end.

Sounds like she has to make a decision as to whether or not she really wants the marriage to work...recognizing how it tortures you to know the interaction is there on a daily basis.

Is he married? DOes his wife know?

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NY-ER Yes he is married w/ 3 kids and the vice president of his church and a member of the church band and no I haven't told his W yet. Have been struggling with that issue, which I address in another post on this site. Thx!

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Well, you need to tell his wife. Of course you probably don't want to do that. But it is absolutely necessary.

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I am wondering what your marriage has been like all these years, while this was going on unknown to you.

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Shul, I didn't really see the problems till the DD. But it has been a steady downhill for many years. We had our first child at 19. Need I say more? We started counciling in 1997 till now and really no progress. HOPEFULLY with MB and the good people like everyone here we will get through it. Tomorrow will be a better day!

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We have yet to begin our plan A.

This sentence tells me you do not yet fully understand what Plan A is....

Plan A is not something you and your W agree to do together... Plan A is the betrayed spouse's plan (unilateral) to fix his/her personal behaviors that led to the breakdown of the marriage (but realize this ... YOU did not cause her to cheat. That is 100% her responsibility)

Plan A is to be as attractive to your spouse as possible (meeting her ENs). With the ~hope~ that this will stop the affair. This alone will not stop your wife's affair. Her's has been going on for sooooo long the affair has become part of her ~lifestyle~.

You wife is having an "add-on" affair.

She doesn't want a divorce. She doesn't want to end her affair. She wants to remaina married lady who also has a lover on the side.

Is this acceptable to you? Are you going to allow her to have both you and OM?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Now YOU ... this is your issue:

YOU must make priorities in your life...

Ask yourself if enjoying your wife's income and her health insurance benifits outweighs the importance of her ending FOREVER her dual lifestyle...

You cannot have both. YOU must choose also.

Your wife will stay this "cake-eater" as long as you think her income and insurance are more important than monogamy in your marriage.

Cake-eater = having one's cake and eating it too.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Regards,

Pep


<small>[ June 18, 2004, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

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Dude...I had a boss 4 years ago want that. He was married with 2 kids. I am married with 2 kids also. Ex-boss tried to get me to pitty him. Pitty didn't work so he used power. if I wanted time off, he let me know that it would cost me a BJ. I got sick over this for many months. I wanted to keep my job, but his power was too much for me. I had to make a choice, leave the job or screw him to keep it. Well I found a new job and then I screwed him...well my lawyer screwed him. The EEOC found him of cause on 2 counts, which ment settle or go to court. He settled fast!

Did you have a child sick during that time? or anyone in your family? Did she need the insurance because of that and the boss knew it. Sometimes certain situations can be involved which led her to be manipulated to have sex with her boss, even for a long duration. You may want to speak to a lawyer if something to that condition took place. Or was this 100% willing?

stuggling...Laura

<small>[ June 18, 2004, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: struggling4years ]</small>

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Pepper, Thanks, what you said, Its right. I am trying as fast as I can to learn the process on MB and the reasons for the A. And NO, none of this s**t is acceptable. And Laura I dont think it started out a "favors" at work. OP is a master at telling her what she wants to hear, (he told her that he would like to have a baby with her and that made her feel all special and all). And has no obligations to her other than that. We have 4 kids all healthy, Thank God. I'm self employed and am looking for another job or other options for health care. (health care for SE is expensive). She has said that she will quit but NOT get another job. Which means that I would have to double my salary or get a 2nd job (to maintain what we have). Which would give her more time alone with him. Her boss is also married w/ kids and I haven't yet said anything to his W or boss...yet. Bottom line is she was 100% willing. She worked hard keeping this a secret from me,other than the changes in behavior. I got lucky and found a letter she sent to him by mistake. She doesn't even use the home puter anymore, The only thing I blame myself for is not acknowledging the signs MUCH earlier. Thx. Brad.

<small>[ June 18, 2004, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: adandydude ]</small>

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a dandy dude,

First, of course sorry you are here, but at the same time glad you found this place. 
As they say, better late then never. (Hard to imagine you dealing with this for soooo long, alone). <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Very encouraging that you are reading and learning all that you can, about A's, relationships and even yourself.  Good move.  Keep doing that!

Next, Yes your W  must get away from OM.
8 years creates an extremely strong bond.
Just process the fact that They can't be friends, not coworkers, not anything ... except apart. ( That is If your M is to both survive and be healthy).

Unfortunately, Their A is still ongoing as we chat here, at least  on some level.
How have you been able to deal with this for so long (her leaving every morning to go be with him)? 
That's a huge snowjob she's pulled on you. (Don't feel bad on that...they all learn to lie and manipulate like pro's)

Just had a few questions to help clarify things,  if you'd be so inclined.

You've written  that your wife had the A with her Boss.
Can you be more specific as to what that business relationship  exactly is. 
Meaning is this a  small business and he the owner/boss OR is this a corporation with him her supervisor  (what is that dynamic).
Without giving the brand name what  Type  of business is this? ie, field?
Is she the secretary, assistant, what?

The reason I ask is because if this is a larger company, it is very likely for you to get HIM to leave, and your wife to still keep her job.
Big Business is very touchy about sexual harassment these days.

I know, you say she was willing. These days, In most cases that is NOT the issue .
The issue is whom has Power and authority (and ultimately) responsibility over a subordinate.
If he in any way had the power of Evaluation, raises &/or promotions, then the Buck stops with him. It usually comes down to an abuse of power charge.
Which he is definitely guilty of.

This is the situation we were in. I let W and her OM supervisor work together for months after D-day. (Huge mistake!!!) As crazy as I got, I almost hate to relate to what your feeling. Those were dark days indeed!
However then her OM got full of himself,  thought he was untouchable. Boy was he wrong.
He was gone within a week of us going to the Human Resources Dept. 
My wife kept her job, with nothing more then a reprimand on her  yearly evaluation.  Yes, it was a very scary and difficult time, but well worth it in the end.
(She ultimately did leave later, due to all the Triggers at the workplace). But that is another story.

To Continue:
In addition, once you do tell his wife, she is NOT going to want him working with your W any more.  Bet on that.  So even if he is the owner (or whatever) and can't be  forced out, his wife will make him fire your wife. His W will insist that either your W goes or he goes.

In that case, your W  will still  be away from him, even if SHE doesn't want to be.
So either way its a  victory for you.
Also you get the benefit of OM  "Turning" on your W. 
Nothing breaks the addiction and fantasy faster then the "lover" putting you on the unemployment line.
Kind of hard to put a "loving"  spin on that one.

And  even in this scenario,  you'll still have a great case against him, as the reason for him firing your W, will be because he was using her for sex.
Now that the sex is over, and his W knows ....she is out the door.  That is illegal.

Any way, If you could fill in that gap of info. it would be appreciated.

I know it may sound like I am being overly legalistic here.
However, I'm just trying to point out that there are options available that can solve both your problems (that being the OM and W being separated permanently & her still having a job).
There is a way for it to happen. It can be done.

Not saying any of this is easy or pleasant. Cause its not. Its scary and hard. But wouldn't doing something to help your M and yourself be better then continuing to stay stuck in the H*ll your in now?
I held off taking action for so long, because I too was scared (as well as listening to my W's bullstuff).  But eventually it was all just too much to take.
Fortunately, in the end things are better then I could have imagined.
Especially considering how I saw them at the time.
Just want you to know your not the only one to go through this sh*t.

Lastly:
You were also given Sound advice ( by Mel. Lane) to NOT  tell your W of your plans to inform   OMW until  After  you actually do it.  This is crucial. 
If you do, Your  W WILL tell OM, who then in turn will tell a story about how you are a jealous husband and a general nut case, and make his wife not believe ANYTHING you have to say. 

Don't give them the opportunity to do this. 
YOU TELL  First   and make him scramble to do "Damage Control".
IF he gets to her first, then you will never be believed. 
As a result, you doing this most unpleasant task (talking to his wife) will all be for naught. We know you don't want that.

The OM already has enough advantages over you.  Do not give him any further edge.

Indeed, the OM is comfortable at this point. Don't tip your hand.

add, (sorry for the acronym),
Whatever your ultimate decisions are, I wish you only success.
Keep coming here, it can help.
Take care

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Top Rope, I read your last post. Sorry to get a reply back sooo late. However to answer your questions posed </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You've written that your wife had the A with her Boss.
Can you be more specific as to what that business relationship exactly is.
Meaning is this a small business and he the owner/boss OR is this a corporation with him her supervisor (what is that dynamic).
Without giving the brand name what Type of business is this? ie, field?
Is she the secretary, assistant, what?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's a small department of a vendor company within a fairly large employer. Just OM and WS as the full time people employed there. They often work opposite days but many times together as needs arise. It is a computer operations Dept. They cover late hours 2pm to 2am 6days a week.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know, you say she was willing. These days, In most cases that is NOT the issue .
The issue is whom has Power and authority (and ultimately) responsibility over a subordinate.
If he in any way had the power of Evaluation, raises &/or promotions, then the Buck stops with him. It usually comes down to an abuse of power charge.
Which he is definitely guilty of.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He MAY? have the power for evaluations. When that time comes, I often have heard the W talk about OM boss regarding her raises so I not sure how much input OM has.
The bottom line is I have much info. against OM. (WMD's as someone put it) to use IF I need to to help get them apart. Both on a personal level and professional. Maybe a good LB??
The other thing I have never stated here is that I know Him and his BS. Not real good friends (even before A) but I know them nonetheless. Any feed back on how that might work to my advantage would be appreciated. I'll check back later Thx.


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