Hi, I just posted for first time in Plan A/B, guess I should have posted here for immediate responses. Have worked very hard up till now and dont want to do something I will regret! Please advise!!

For your navigational ease:

Sabot's other post.

If she has moved out of state, I think I would stay in Plan A longer, and let the affair fizzle out.

Hi Sabot,

My suggestion is to start prepping for a Plan B.It's time to try and get your WH off that proverbial fence by cutting off contact with YOU.Just because the OW is in another state or even in another country(like my WH's homewrecker) doesn't guarantee she will stop contacting your WH and vice versa.It hasn't in my case.Nor in your's either.

It sounds as though you have done a good Plan A to the best of your ability but now is the time to pull the plug on your WH getting his fix from both women.YOU have this choice.It will also help you get stronger.You are not giving up or giving in but rather letting your WH know that you will not be a part of this sick and twisted scenario anymore.It's time for him to grow up and make a decision like a man.Even kids have to make choices and they do it everyday.It's a tough one but he brought these circumstances on himself and now he has to deal with it.

O

<small>[ June 29, 2004, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Believer, Octobergirl, Turtlehead, thanks so much, I have read such positive things about all of you!

Believer, a part of me thinks staying in plan A is the right thing, that it will fizzle, except that it has been 5 mths and she is still hanging on! How long do I give it? Should I email her tell her I will expose her affair with my husband to her employer and family if she doesnt stop? I have been fighting with this one for awhile now!!

Octobergirl, I agree with you also, and told him yesterday when I found the cd that I was not going to be a part of this triangle and he had to make a choice, that if this continues he needs to pack his things and leave that I wasnt ready for that before but am now! (I lied, I dont want him to leave) He just said what do you want me to do. Then last night acts like nothing happened! Do I need to leave to show him I mean business if he wont?? Do you think I should contact OW? Jeez, this has taken up so much of my life! And by reading here, dont know if I can be angry or if I should act understanding towards him???

Hi again Sabot,

If you have not exposed the A to all of those involved such as work and family,that should have been done at the get go but it's not too late.Tell all in one day,get it over with.If your WH doesn't work with the OW anymore,then telling the OW's employer at this point would not help your case.It would only help if they were still working together.I would tell her parents if you have access.Sometimes,not always,they can put pressure on her/him to stop the bad behavior by not supporting her/him in it.

Next,whatever you do,DON'T give ultimatums.Don't say "Choose me or her" or "I'm leaving" or anything like that.The idea behind Plan B is to let your WH know that you love him but can no longer be put in this hurtful position he has placed upon you both and so it's a love letter of sorts, that you would be willing to discuss making your marriage a better one if he ends contact with the OP.Read up on What is Plan A/B here in the MB concepts ok? We also should have a thread of Plan B letter suggestions lying around here somehwere. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ok,so let's recap:

1)Expose A at workplace only if WH and OW are still currently working together.

2)Expose A to OW's family if you have access to them(i.e. phone number).

3)Review and begin PBL(Plan B letter) drafts.Read up on concepts.Part of Plan B is also for the OW to read at the end.If you have SAA,read Dr.Harley's example.

4) Begin to make arrangements for WH to leave and live with someone else(he's the one that is having an A).Don't YOU leave.I don't remember if you have kids or not.You will need to make arrangements for pick up and drop off if you do have kids.Sometimes an intermediary is best.

5) Don't LB.Keep your cool at all times as much as possible.Remember to leave WH with a memory or how dignified,calm and reasonable you were when you cut off your supply of you(Plan B).He has to remember a safe,calm,loving place to come back to if he is going to,ok?

So far so good?

O

<small>[ June 30, 2004, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Thanks Octobergirl,

We dont have kids, he has 2 older daughters. The OW never worked with H. She left here when her job ended and H told her he was coming home to try and make marraige work. He tried to end contact at that time but she and he continued again. H says she makes him laugh and he wants to be happy! That was a ball breaker! She works out of state but continues to call H at work only and send him love letters and stuff to work! H just tells me not to stress about it! How can I not? One minute he is loving and attentive and the next says he is stuck on high center and feels like we are just roomates!! What does that translate to? I told him to leave and he said he cant make a choice because hes too overwhelmed at work!! Thats another good response dont you think? When I tried to leave, he did not want me to, but still refuses NC, other than that he is trying to do everything right and stating I'm here arent I! Can he be that confused?

I don't think your WH is confused in as much as he just doesn't WANT to make a decision.He can't and why should he? He has all your attention at home and the OW sitting on the sidelines relying on e-mails and phone calls as her "relationship". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Geeze.

Again,don't YOU move out,HE has to go.He is the one having an A and should be the one to go and figure himself out or whatever he wants but you have to end the sick scenario by a Plan B.He WILL not and CANNOT be in a committed realtionship with you as long as the OW is dangling little bits of attention in front of him,keeping him away just enough to put the mariage in a holding pattern.He has no reason to change unless you up the ante by putting a stop to letting him run over your marriage back and forth with his indecision.

Ignore WH's remark about not stressing over what you are going through.It's just another fogged statement by an adulterer and doesn't help.Also,the excuse about not being able to make a decison about you and he due to work obligations is a bunch of ....well you know.Ignore that too.Him being there in the home is NOT the same as working on the marriage,give me a break.Please read up on Plan B before your WH loses all respect for you,ok? Enough is enough.

O

Hi, Sabot, Just following along on your thread, and I'm sorry that you are going through this but we are all here for you. You know, it amazes me that you cannot get a no contact agreement in your situation, especially since the OW doesn't even live nearby anymore. Sounds to me like your husband is hanging onto something, and he needs to realize that you can't proceed to the next step until he breaks emotionally from the OW.

I will give you my situation in a nutshell. My H had a PA with an employee for two years before I found out about it. By the time that someone called and 'informed' me, my H was desperate to break from the OW. I was saved the trauma of withdrawal, and I thank God for that. My husband was not able to have no contact with the OW, because they had to work together at least two days a week. He did refuse to talk to her beyond work, he wouldn't take her calls, and when they did work together he kept it completely on a professional level. It infuriated her, she tried everything to lure him back, but he was able to fend her off.

We looked at her as the enemy. It's the approach that worked for us and I know that it is nonconventional in MB standards, but it worked for us. When your husband can look at the OW and any other woman as a threat to his marriage, then you will make it.

He needs someone to be accountable to besides you. He needs to confide this to a friend, your pastor, and a therapist. HE needs to do this, the fewer people you personally let into the loop the better. Don't keep this all to yourself, but make sure that your husband knows who you intend to tell this to. You need to be in agreement about how many people know this. For you to just go out and inform the world could be perceived as a love buster, it could backfire on you.

In conclusion, your husband is trapped in the fog and he has no hope of getting out of the fog as long as he continues an emotional affair with this woman. They may not be having sex, but they are still having an affair. If he doesn't realize this, someone needs to help him.

Take care, you are in my prayers.

Oh Octobergirl, I know you are so right about the respect thing and everything you say! My confusion is when do I stop Plan Aing? It seems that he is trying to get closer to me again at times. When I found out, he was ready to "move on" as he said. He left for 1 week and of course went to her, and I couldnt stand it, I am very strong but had panic attacks! I kept telling him to come home and he did, that was end of jan. Said if he had anymore pressure on him he would explode. I have to tell you also, he started this affair after I admitted to him that I had one, that was 2 yrs ago. He said he didnt think I cared if he was there or not. So I have done everything to make things right on my end of responsibility and he says he has no hard feelings anymore about it. I have plan A'd for 5 mths and at times it seems to work, he says I have been so sweet. I am afraid if he leaves I will fall apart again. And I have told him he can go with my blessing so why wont he if thats what he wants? I dont ask him if he is talking to her anymore, last time he said yes and I said why, he said because I want to. Says he does not disrespect me but what do you call carrying a cd she sent secretly to his job that she made for him with love songs on it and where she wrote in big black marker, I love you, S. in his car! Seems pretty disrespectful to me! And he just blew it off!

Thanks tere38 for your support, I have been lost for 6 mths now about what to do. H says he will talk to someone because he hasnt talked to anyone about this. Told me 3 weeks ago he would but never went through with it. When I asked him about 2 wks ago if he did he said no, dont know who to talk to. Asked me if I would get him someone. I dont know who to get for him. My MIL and FIL know and he is a deacon for the church and they gave me our pastors phone number and said he does marraige counseling but I have been hesitant to approach him for this. Should I call him and ask for help?

Octobergirl, ARRGGGHHH, H just called me to see how my day was going, he NEVER calls during day! Just wanted to chit chat. This is what so confuses me!! The wishy washiness, what a maytag man! Is this just guilt or trying to keep me hanging on or what the .... over? What should I think? I just went to the christian bookstore and bought 3 more books, damn, I feel like a scholar here! Forgot my cell phone in restroom, he called office, then cell x 2. So now what he shows a little interest and I'm supposed to feel some relief I guess!! I bought torn asunder, what to do when the one you love wants to leave, and Love must be tough! Have you read any of these?

Sabot, your pastor would be an excellent place to start. If I hadn't talked to my pastor first when I found out, I might have made some huge mistakes. My pastor's advice was for me to love my husband and try to heal our marriage. We had conferences with both my pastor and his wife for several months immediately following discovery, and we still check in with them on occasion as they are still concerned with how we are doing.

Why did he call you in the middle of the day? If you have started laying down the law about no contact, then I would bet he is trying to get you to soften up some. Sounds like he is still in the fog and wants to keep you in the dark about details. Go with your gut, don't let him cloud your judgement. If he is not taking any steps to completely cut this woman off, then he is leaving you no choice.

We are all here for you, and your marriage can be saved, but your husband HAS to do his part. Start with your pastor, he will put you on the right path. I truly doubt that he hasn't dealt with this before.

Sabot,

Bottom line here is this: your WH is still in contact with OW.If he was over her or he really wanted to save your marriage then he would END it,NC.Like the other poster said,it's even more difficult to support a long distance A but WS's don't get it.They still are hooked.My WH is still hooked by the homewrecker who lives in another country for Pete's sake.

Despite all the calls and discussions about his attempts to save the mariage,you are still at square one.IMO your WH is just checking up on you to see if you're still there in the periphery.And,you are.That's why he calls you at odd hours and tells you things he feels you may want to hear.It's a half hearted attempt,if that.

You cannot go into a marriage recovery after Infidelity without a 100% committment to do so.This is too big a trauma to get over without both the husband and wife giving it their all.

So,Plan B is still my suggestion at this point.As for the books,I haven't read the ones you listed except I did read a bit of Torn Asunder in the bookstore.I have read plenty of other's since this began for me.

Lastly,remember: Marriage counseling is a waste of time and money if there is still contact with the OP.It's like an alcoholic saying he is going to start AA but have a drink now and then while he reads the steps. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> NO CONTACT is a must for you are your WH to get beyond the aftermath of Infidelity.

You're not in contact with the OM from *your transgression now are you? Make him understand the importance.

O

Ok, heres update, OW called while we were watching firework display! I asked H who that was, he said, you dont want to know, I said why is she calling? He said to say happy 4th! Then H pulled me close to him and kept hugging me rest of evening and kissing me? Guilt! I guess!! I didnt say a word, next morning, phone rang again and this time I BLEW! You all would say major LB, but I didnt care! I asked him for her number, and he dialed it for me. She answered and I asked her what she needed? She said he hadnt called like he said he would and she was worried about him! I told her he was MY H and I would be the one to take care of him and for her to stop calling MY H! Told her that if she didnt that I would inform her employer, her family and everyone of her sick twisted relationship with MY H. Of course she started defending herself, (not him which surprised me) and started telling me that H was the one calling her and that I didnt know she drove here and he met her 3 weeks ago at a motel! I then confirmed with H it was true and I told him to pack his sh.. and get the hell out of my house! He acted stunned by all this, said he was sorry and didnt want to leave! I told him and her on phone that SHE could have him! That they were both liars and sick and deserved each other!! I told H, this is obviously what you wanted so get out!! He said this is not what he wanted! That he didnt have any feelings about anything anymore! H said do I have a choice? I said, if you stay, now you have ultimatums! #1 You go to doctor and get some AD's if you are depressed. #2 You get counseling! #3 No Contact with her at all!! H said thats what I want if you will help me!! That was day before yest. Yesterday he came home from work and nothing was discussed, we were both exhausted from no sleep. Today I asked him if he talked to her, he said you know I did. He said he told her he did not want to hear from her and she wouldnt be hearing from him! Thats all he said, he was at work at the time. Anyway, there it is and I dont know what to do next?? Help!! Want to go right direction!! What now?? He acted like he was mad at me, but said he wasnt!

Sabot,

Two words for you:

CAKE EATER

Will you pleeease get into a Plan B now? Read up on it and stop the madness.We will help you.Also,I know you were upset but ultimatums are not part of any plan here.It never works,at least not that I know of and it makes you look like a raving lunatic.Not a good mental picture for your WH to remember if and when he decides to return to the marriage.

If you want help and you are here at MB you need to stick to the plan of action.Otherwise you are floudering and nothing will change.So,what's it gonna be? Hmmmm?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

O

Ok, I hear ya, but I thought that these are the correct steps to MB:
1) Plan A to stop affair (plan A'd my butt off)
2) Plan B when affair continues and youve done a good plan A but not working (Told H to leave because I would no longer be part of triangle while he was having affair. H does not want to end M.
3) H informed OW he would have NO Contact!

Is this not the goal set up in MB? Stop Affair, NC, work on M?
If so, my question is How do I proceed after promise of NC? What can I expect now?

You just got through telling us that your WH talked to OW on the cell this past weekend right?

Was a NC letter ever sent? Has he made the necessary changes to prevent contact(i.e change e-mail and cell phone numbers)Has he given you FULL access to all modes of communication? Last we left it a few days ago,your WH was wishy washy on just what he needs to do to end contact AND he is wishy washy on even doing it.

It's one thing to say,"Ok I am done with you" or "You will never hear from me again" and MEAN it by actions.Words are only that during an A,words.ACTIONS speak louder than words right? Follow that golden rule.So far,based on what you mentioned,I see no evidnece that suggests your WH is actually serious about ending the A.We all know how easliy our WS's go right back to the A when they are trying to stop their bad behvior.Just like an addict does.And no doubt,he may get upset that he even has to try doing this.It's going to hurt.

Help your WH do what is necessary to stop the A.First and foremost is that NC letter and then you both have to get busy in counseling,reading and preventing that homewrecker from contacting your WH.If she cannot reach him,that's half the battle.The other half is HIM.If he slips up again,Plan B time.

O