All.

Sorry I have been off line. I have been extending the illusion to RAP that I have been fishing all day, but what I did was drive the 12 hrs back home.

She was really emotionally upset. I caught the tail end of her and Pep on my thread late last night and made the choice to come home.

So I left 3DS with Grandpa and drove home.

Showed up at her door about 9:30 pm. Called her on the cell phone while standing outside the door and said I really wish I could give her a hug. She started talking back and I rang the bell. She said "Hold on, someone's at the door." and of course it was me.

She was happy to see me. Then I hit her with a big love buster.

Before I came home I wrangled the OM down and put the fear of NCW in him. He won't be contacting her anymore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Figured best option was to tell him. If I told OMW, RAP would have to deal with the shame. NOT her wimping out, if we told OMW, OM would definately spin this as if RAP were some loony, adoring nutcase. We have a gossipy neighborhood. RAP is going through enough from herself and from me to be the cannon fodder for the boorish gossips that live around us. OM does put family first, RAP was "additional recreation." He agreed to no contact for fear of his wife finding out. I even witnessed to him a bit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RAP and I have been talking for about 6 hours now, helping her deal with pain. It has been a nice evening, considering. It is finally over for her and she is really fogged. I am trying to be strong. RAP also understands how close to the edge her last choice has taken the M. Promised she will not try to contact OM. OM is so scared that I don't think he would answer the phone.

Strong feelings in the R were really one way, RAP for OM. Please be understanding to her. She feels really bad for some of her last posts and feels like some of you misunderstood her. I have read them since I got home and kind of think so too. She was a wreck with guilt and shame over her weakness. This OM really had a spell on her. She IS very honest with me.

OM is a smooth operator. This is the BIGGEST reason that RAP has been hesitant talking to OMW. It is pretty valid. OM takes EXCELLENT care of his wife and kids. Almost like he works EXTRA HARD in other areas to make up for what he is doing. We aren't really sure that OMW doesn't know already and just accepts his behavior because of what she gets out of him. Stranger things have happened.

I know that OMW needs to know. I know he is risking her health, etc. But it would NOT be good for RAPs health to have to deal with OMW. I am not sure of HER stability if she knew. I seem to be the only stable one right now. At this point, I cannot worry about someone else's house until MY house is in order. May be callous, but it is what I have to do.

NCWalker home with RAP. She is safe.

NC, you didn't LB.

You just did darn good.

Jenny

Dear NC & RAP,

I just logged back on and can’t express how am feeling right now.

As KiwiJ put it “You did just darn good”

That sums it up.

Am in tears because things you said are so true for me, that I feel ‘desperate’ about it.

if we told OMW, OM would definately spin this as if RAP were some loony, adoring nutcase. We have a gossipy neighborhood

It would be the same for me. OMW doesn’t know either. I think things have already been spun that I am someone who ‘had a crush’ on OM. H agrees with you. He knows things would be spun as ME WHO STARTED this and that I was the cause of his downfall in ministry.

H and I keep arguing about this because I still care for OM and am in the fog, and H gets cross that I can’t see Om for what he is.

This OM really had a spell on her.

My H is saying the same to me but I am not listening well at the moment.

OM is a smooth operator. This is the BIGGEST reason that RAP has been hesitant talking to OMW. It is pretty valid. OM takes EXCELLENT care of his wife and kids. Almost like he works EXTRA HARD in other areas to make up for what he is doing. We aren't really sure that OMW doesn't know already and just accepts his behavior because of what she gets out of him. Stranger things have happened.

It seems that you have spoken prophetically into my situation. My H says OM is ‘working off a debt’ to his wife because of ‘past things’… H says exactly like you…my OM is working EXTRA HARD in other areas to make up for what he is doing.

O God. I think I have lost the plot in my life. I can see the truth and reality but my heart wont accept it.

The difficulty with me accepting it, is because for 16 months I had such attentive, loving kind and fun and passion with OM including loving texts, that I simply cant seem to accept that ‘he was just being all things to all men’ in order to get what he needed. H keeps telling me that. I keep refusing to believe it.

What hope do I have then?

But it would NOT be good for RAPs health to have to deal with OMW. I am not sure of HER stability if she knew. I seem to be the only stable one right now. At this point, I cannot worry about someone else's house until MY house is in order. May be callous, but it is what I have to do.

H says the same for me and would agree with you.

Am struggling today. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />


Much much much love to you both.

RAP….Thank God.

You are where you belong… With a man who loves and cares for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Kas

Way to go NC.

Love to you both, I have been following both of your stories and I say congrats........

Now the real work CAN BEGIN.

3 cheers to you both!

NcW,
Knight in shining armor. The hero. Just what Rap needed. I'm impressed.

Rap - embrace the love that your H is giving you, loose yourself in it. Wrap up in his arms and let this man love, he is your true mate, your soul mate. You just have to let him be.

Look how much he loves you, would OM come thru for you like this, would OM with stand this much for you, would OM fight for you, like your H has.

Let him love you Rap.

{{{{hugs}}}}

for you both,
KY

Hey all!

Just what I was thinking....sounds like a love scene out of a movie! I can honestly say, though, I'm not surprised <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Try as we might, we are so limited here in what we can do...there comes a time to leave it in God's hands. That's what I did yesterday...and look at what HE can do! Amazing!

Be happy!

Julie

So I left 3DS with Grandpa and drove home.

Showed up at her door about 9:30 pm. Called her on the cell phone while standing outside the door and said I really wish I could give her a hug. She started talking back and I rang the bell. She said "Hold on, someone's at the door." and of course it was me.

I LOVE you for doing this!!!

Honestly, your decision is so loving..... I'm sure RAP will recover with your help.

EXCELLENT!

Before I came home I wrangled the OM down and put the fear of NCW in him. He won't be contacting her anymore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

I love this also!

Brave and true to your role as the man of the house.

Protect your woman from the enemy at the gate.

EXCELLENT!


I know that OMW needs to know. I know he is risking her health, etc. But it would NOT be good for RAPs health to have to deal with OMW. I am not sure of HER stability if she knew. I seem to be the only stable one right now. At this point, I cannot worry about someone else's house until MY house is in order. May be callous, but it is what I have to do.

I think what you have done shows EXCELLENT judgement.

NCWalker home with RAP. She is safe.


<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Thank God.

<small>[ July 07, 2004, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Yikes! You completely fooled me. I thought you were fishing!

Where is RAP now? Will she post?

Nc walker,

IT is clear that your heart and priorities are in the right place.
To continue to support your W, is touching, and Oh so right.

However, IMO you are still defending making a poor choice for your M's recovery.
That is in refusing to tell OMW.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that OMW needs to know. I know he is risking her health, etc. But it would NOT be good for RAPs health to have to deal with OMW. I am not sure of HER stability if she knew. I seem to be the only stable one right now. At this point, I cannot worry about someone else's house until MY house is in order. May be callous, but it is what I have to do.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please hear this: Your main reason in Exposer is not for the OMW......it is For Your Wife!

Please believe me when I share with you that your battle is not with the OM.
No, its really not.
Unfortunately, YOUR battle/challenge is with the emotions and feelings that your W associates with the OM. Your challenge is to overcome and break the "fantasy" and illusion of the A.

Until you accomplish that goal, RAP will continue to break down and go back, because she is addicted.

As far as OM goes, Leave him out of it.
By confronting OM only, you have wasted a Huge Opportunity.

Indeed, If you would just tell OMW she would at the very least put heat on him to stop seeing/ talking to someone she sees as an easy "homewrecker".

The true Value to OMW knowing is that SHE will force OM to LB on your W.
She will FORCE him to show his True self and True colors.
His Real intentions towards your W will be shown...... to RAP .
As a result, she'll be FORCED to face and accept this.
This will do MORE to end her fantasy and bring her sanity back to you, then a year of talks and discussions with you.

When the OM turns his back on a WW, and shows her that she really does mean nothing (other then a good time), this is like a bucket of ice water in a WW face.
It also permits all the "good" feelings to be released.
She can stop pining away for OM (as she knows he doesn't and never did want her). Not the way she wants him to.

The problem is that right now, RAP is there with you physically, but that's it.
She is still emotionally and mentally waiting for him.

Yes, she will have some will power for a short time, as she just got her last "Fix" of OM a few days ago. So the guilt is over powering the "addiction".
However, Make no mistake that the further you get away from Sat., the more she will "obsess" and eventually make contact with him.

A question for you.
Did this OM already know that YOU knew about him?
If he did then he still had NO Problem coming to YOUR house to be with your W only a few days ago. He is just going to wait till the storm blows over and then wait until your WW contacts him. He knows the drill. He knows she will come back.
You need to understand this fact as he does.

Force HIM to end things with your W. Make him show her who he really is.

I realize you Think you are doing this to protect your W. That quality is admirable. It truly is.
But by NOT telling OMW you are in actuality, Prolonging your W's suffering (and thereby your own as well).
The best thing that can happen to RAP is to get the OM to totally turn his back on her, while telling her that she never meant anything to him (other then the obvious).

Will this cause her pain. Yes, but it will be quick & powerful, and then she can begin the slow process of healing herself.
Right now your STILL currently fighting the addiction.
Its obvious by both her actions and her posts here, that she is LOOSING that battle.

Lets be honest here. YOU already know in your heart that your going to Have to talk to OMW at some point.
Why? Because you know that there will be SOME type of contact at some point , and as you are a man of your word and will also feel like you have no other option.....you will go and tell her.
So why not just get to your recovery that much quicker and NOT go through any extra pain or drama?

And it doesn't even matter if he is smooth or the OMW doesn't believe you.
It will be enough that she insists he NEVER sees or talks to your (in her mind) "crazy" loony wife again.
If he is covering his A*S (most likely) and lies.....your wife will get to hear and know about the lies.
She will get to know that this OM DENIES any and everything she is holding onto as soooooo "special".
POOF, the fantasy is gone and most importantly is broken forever.

Do I appear adamant on this point? Good, cause I am.
I just don't want for the 2 of you to make the same mistakes I made, when it is not necessary for you to do so.
Keeping my W's A a secret, while they continued contact was the Biggest Mistake I made in this whole sordid process. Now I wish I had exposed the very 1st day I found out.
Please learn from someone else's mistakes & choose NOT to repeat them.

Forcing my W's OM to show his true colors and having him basically "turn" on my wife (trying to cover his own A*S of course) did more to break his hold on her then ALL the MC, IC, antidepressants, books and even my love and support ... COMBINED .

It was what got her to see things as they truly are , not How she wants them to be.
His lies Then, opened her Eyes WIDE to ALL the lies he'd been spouting for years.
She saw through the disguise to his true character. Of course it hurt her, but it was oh so necessary.

It's also the one thing that permitted her to free her self from him and make a true healing possible.
Her feeling used is awful, but her being in denial was much worse.

Your W NEEDS for you to do this for her.
She needs your help in this as she can't do it for herself.
She is incapable of breaking this on her own. Of course You see that.
She needs the pain of the OM's rejection, in order for her to begin to heal. Not pleasant, but necessary.
Otherwise, she is going to hold onto the fantasy (no matter how insane) forever.

You've already witnessed that all the rational talking to her, has little if NO effect.
Your support cannot break this, the good people here cannot "talk" her out of this............but her seeing the OM for whom he truly is ... CAN!

MAKE him SHOW her. Make him reveal himself.
For her own sake, if not for yours.

I know you don't want her a permanent hostage to some guy you think is scum.
So break his hold over her, by making HIM do the work for you.

YOU Tell his W (maybe even his work) and he lies and tells stories and brings the whole house of cards down. All you do is light the fuse and watch as your W (your real W) begins to come back to you.

Remember if only done before, there would have been no relapse this weekend.
Don't kid yourself that this wasn't preplanned by RAP to send her family away to arrange a "get together".
Agreed that can't be changed now. But what can be changed is to correct the mistake of NOT exposing.

Your recovery will not begin, UNTIL the A ends.
In RAP's heart and mind it is not over.
You have the power to end it, will you?
Even if not instant, IT WILL Be the begining of the end!

Right now you are in a nightmare.
Tell the OMW and have your wife wake up from her dream.
In the end, she will thank you for saving her....from herself.

All right enough from me.

Continue to take care of her.
Your mountain is steep, but if ascended together......what a view!

Wishing you only success in your struggle.
Take care

NCW/RAP: Congratulations! It NOW sounds like you can both work on this.

And no, telling the OM wasn't a love buster. It's what was needed to force closure and help with NC. When the time is right, you will know what you have to do regarding OMW. RAP will too. That will take care of itself, but you have much work ahead. Work on yourselves.

Best Wishes you guys. But remember it will not be all roses, there will be twists and turns, ups and downs...and you will need each other to get through it. Keep us posted, as you have time of course <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RH

NCW,

I know RAP doesn't appreciate this right now, but now matter how this works out she will KNOW that you were willing to go the extra mile (miles <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) to give her another chance.

You have done well, NCW. You really have.

God Bless,

JL

I'm still worried about RAP. Are you letting her post? Or she does not want to?

NC, good job coming home, incomplete job confronting OM and believing you've taken care of THAT problem. He is NOT your problem, never has been, RAP is.

Top Rope's EXCELLENT post should be on Notable Threads IMO. He as BS and I as FWS are telling you the same thing but I'm afraid it's falling on deaf ears. Unfortunately, the inevitable consequences of not following proven advice will not be so easy for you to ignore.

As an extremely sneaky FWS I can tell you that where there is a will, there is a way. If RAP wants to be with OM, she WILL no matter what he's said, no matter how crappy he treated her, no matter if he even wants to or not. I don't care WHAT she tells you, it's NOT over, not for her.

Actually, what OM thinks is pretty darn incidental to the whole thing because of RAP's mindset. Until you do the one thing GUARANTEED to end the OM's fantasy presence in RAP's mind, she will continue to desire contact if only to convince him one last time that she really is as wonderful as he made her feel in the begining. She is obsessed with what he thinks of her now.

The impression I had of reading her weekend posts is that things did not go as well on Saturday as she had hoped. The posts are deleted but the words "how OM was treating her SINCE Saturday" were used.

You need to ask what she was talking about. OM mostly likely had sex with her and then just blew her off. Was she calling and getting more brushoff? If the closure was as lousy as it sounded, it bodes trouble given her state of mind regarding him.

My husband and I have both been strongly afffected by your threads. We've been trying to figure out why it is so particularly disturbing to both of us. I should be able to relate to where RAP is at having been a WS myself, yet I end up feeling frustrated. So much emphasis on "feelings" and "intentions" and NO apparent effort on her part to move out of the "life" of the affair.

As for you NCW: *** YOU'VE GOT THE GUN SOLDIER, NOW PULL THE TRIGGER. COMPLETE THE MISSION.***

Sorry to be so blunt, I KNOW it's an awful situation. WAT's excellent Affair Exposure 101 thread has been bumped up (GQ), read it NCW until you have it down.

In a nutshell:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by top rope:
<strong> [QUOTE]Your recovery will not begin, UNTIL the A ends.
In RAP's heart and mind it is not over.
You have the power to end it, will you?
Even if not instant, IT WILL Be the begining of the end!

Right now you are in a nightmare.
Tell the OMW and have your wife wake up from her dream.
In the end, she will thank you for saving her....from herself. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please reconsider your decision, NCW it is a vital part of the recovery process that you seem to feel you can skip. What makes you think your situation is ANY different than anyone else's situation?

We do care for you both and hope for a fulfilling recovery but you must do what is necessary in order to recover at all. Best, KB

P.S. H requested I delete the friend's wife's name out of my previous post to you but I think you got the message right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Top rope,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> His Real intentions towards your W will be shown...... to RAP .
As a result, she'll be FORCED to face and accept this.
This will do MORE to end her fantasy and bring her sanity back to you, then a year of talks and discussions with you.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have made some very good points in your whole post, and I understand what you are saying. I made my decision to handle it this way for a number of reasons.
1) This union between RAP and OM was not replacement affair, it was additional.
2) She KNOWS how he thinks of her, just as an alcoholic knows drinking is bad. She WANTS in her head to break the addiction, heart is what takes time. So I don’t feel she needed the lesson that OM is a scumbag.
3) Based on phone conversations I was having with her (you all only saw her posts, did not hear what I was hearing and do not know her as well as I do) I decided involving OMW at this point would have been worse.

Kind of like breaking a heroin addiction. Cold turkey does not always work. Some times you have to plateau down. What I mean by this is physical piece is now gone, emotional will be next. Both at the same time (result of telling OMW) would have taken both away.

In this case, the physical has now stopped which prevents HUGE issues such as risk of pregnancy or STD. All in all, a big step forward.

She still has a strong emotional bond to the guy that was never reciprocated. I mean he cared in his own way, but was not bonded. That of course hurts me and more often than not I bash RAP instead of Plan A (I have my own problems, which I am also painfully learning about).

She would have reacted very poorly if I took the OMW route, IMHO. So I did what I could. Saved her body first, now we can work on the soul.

Believer,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm still worried about RAP. Are you letting her post? Or she does not want to?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">C’mon believer. You were becoming one of my FAVORITE posters and lost some ground with this one. I didn’t FORCE her to go, probably when I SHOULD have. Why would I FORCE her not to post?

She is not posting primarily because of the recent bashing she took. The board does not feel safe to her right now. She was in an emotional state, put her true feelings out there, and didn’t get a lot of understanding.

I don’t mean to hang BV up for the wolves, but BV has been pretty much saying the same thing as RAP. RAP did get a lot of support, but some big 2x4s as well. Of which I am partly responsible because of the pain I conveyed in my posts. BVs husband is not posting, so you don’t see her “dark side” from another point of view like you do with RAP and I.

And I know what you are saying: She didn’t have to post and she didn’t have to read the responses. That is true. She posts for very much the same reasons I do. It helps HER. Sorry to be selfish, but at this point in my life I am NOT posting to help any of you. Sometimes I do post something helpful, but truth be told, I am working on my OWN feelings when I do it to help ME. I am GLAD if someone benefits from it, but that is not why I am doing it. (See my comment about getting my own house in order). That’s why RAP is here, too. At least I think so.

She is not posting because she is emotionally beaten down, more from the weekend than from the board. Maybe she deserved some of it, maybe not, but it is what it is and she just doesn’t want to right now.

She’ll be back when she feels like it again. She was very touched by all the love, support, and concern.

Anyway. She REALLY misses the 3DS right now. So we are packing up the “RAPMobile” and heading back down to Grandpa’s. (OFFLINE from both of us for at least a few days) She has a lot of courage. Grandpa knows now and she is willing (even wanting) to go. She DOES know what she has done is wrong. Frankly, I probably didn’t help with her decision when she stayed. Quite the contrary. One of my FAVORITES from good old Ben Franklin is:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Where sense is wanting, everything is wanting.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THAT’S what really happened. On both our parts. If it were easy, why would Dr. Harley be able to make a living at it?

NCWalker

Especially to BV - RAP told me to say: Hang in there, she is ready to bring out the 4x4s if you don’t hold up your end of the bargain.

NCW...

Here is a Men's Christian book you may be interested in ... someday, when you have more spare time for reading...

"Wild at Heart" .... by John Eldredge

Good luck on your trip.

Pep

NC -

Sorry to be asking about her. You did surprise her and I think that was good. And of course my fondest desire is for your marriage to be good, no not good, but better than before.

Unfortunately I have become very attached (as have many of us) to RAP. And it is fine if she does not feel like posting. Tell her we love her very much, and miss her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Believer,

I am getting a little tired of this. I just posted to BVs thread and saw yours there. I can see the dots connecting in your head.

Don't go there. There are things that you just DON'T DO. That is one of them.

I am now actually going to WAKE RAP UP AND MAKE HER POST. It was a long night. She has been sleeping all day. And she is not posting primarily because people have been JUMPING TOO CONCLUSIONS JUST LIKE YOU.

Let me ask you this.

How are you going to KNOW it is her anyway? Doesn't it stand to reason that I just MIGHT know her logon? HA HA HA Sinister, evil, laugh. Yeah, right.

I do appreciate the concern. SHE IS FINE. She plays up the ANGER because she is VERY SENSITIVE TO IT. Not because I am angry all the time. I am learning myself how I inappropriately handle anger. This much pain is a learning process. But it is NOT like you think. She will do something wrong and I will internalize it. Usually, I just get terse and snappy. From her background, she sees this as anger. From mine, it is normal life. Sometimes, she will do something very inconsequential and it will make me angry, but it is because of the STORED anger I have.

Her biggest gripe about my anger is probably more becaues it confuses the hell out of her. That is MY problem because I handle it wrong.

She and I can get pretty "active" in our yelling matches, but I suffer quite a bit from her, too. She gives as good as it gets. We love hard and fight hard, but it has been more of the latter for a while now.

Tell you what, post your phone number and I will have her CALL you.

NCWalker

believer,

Hi. I am sorry to worry you. We were up until about 5:00a.m. I have been exhausted.

It was just a difficult day today in general. Very painful.

I took a mild sedative, and I have been out for the past couple hours.

Please don't worry. This is the worst thing I think I have ever gone through(yes, of my own making).

Love,

Pam

Believer.....

I have to voice a different opinion...

I think RAP does NOT "need" to post here on MB for any reason other than to make YOU comfortable.

I don't think posting here is in any way benificial to HER. Not at this time.

But, that's my opinion....

I think she needs medical attention, a real life professional, not board member input.

The woman threatened suicide.... she needs mental health services....

I don't think she has been helped much by posting here on MB ...

The board environment with a particular group of WW / OW posting to each other how much they miss OM is DESTRUCTIVE to these women and it should STOP..... in my opinion.

She is losing her ability to think rationally .... and posting to us will not be benificial for HER .... in my opinion. Even if it would make YOU feel better. It may harm her.

I wish her the very best... and I don't think posting to us represents the very best for RAP at this time.... she needs real help.

Pep

Very Well Done.