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so, I just posted to Dewt's I Surrender post...

where I point out that all is really moot...

he wanted a decision, I gave him one...

he has a life....

I need to adjust...

ok....

so, true to my word, I went over to the divorce boards so's not to "gum up" the works over here, now that it is obvious beyond the sahdow of a doubt that there is no marriage building going on here...

I went...

I saw....


I saw that I would have to explain this whole twisted freakshow over and again to these poor unsuspecting people who know nothing....

so I'm just going to post this here nad then maybe those with opinions would like to chime in....

I guess "here" feels familiar, and so much change is going on....

so, as I said, I'm just sitting here, the Shawshank redemption is on in the background, the children are sleeping...and Dewt is out with the lady he met friday night...

here is what I was going to post over on the Divorce board...

It is very strange......

the consequences of our actions do come back at us, you know...many here are the BS, and I bet you wonder about payback...and I think perhaps alot of Karma is indeed had...it is just not seen....

personal; thoughts. anxiety attacks...these are not the things we share .....

no witnesses...


so Dewt (of GQII fame)is dating...social interactions, exchanging of phone numbers....
new e-mail accounts, (I did not snoop...he left the paper with his new address right here, in front of the computer...)...messenger is suddenly activated.....

I know, I know....

I am acknowledging that adjustments are going to occurr....

besides, I'm not sure exactly what I'm feeling about it..so better not to examine it until I have had a chance to experience it...

so....there you go...

I guess the divorce is final.....


it was as soon as I gave him my decision, please !!!!! don't think I am blaming Dewt's dating for the finality of it all....NOT AT ALL...

this post is simply about him moving on and my watching it...

I have a weird eye-view of this...most Ex's don't get to see this stuff...they think about it, imagine it, somethimes, they let it torture tham...but I get to witness it....

but when he asks me to borrow hairspray, I know he's serious....

this whole weekend has been a little strange...


so there ya go...nobody over there on the divorce boards knows the long, insane history of this, and some here do...

...feels like the final chapter should be written with friends....Dylan

<small>[ August 10, 2004, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: soulloss ]</small>

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Dylan,

I'm still not sure what to say to you or Dewt. Seeing how all of this has played out over the past few years, I can understand how tired you both must be. Just know that I am thinking of you both.

(((((HUGS)))))
Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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Hey Dylan,

I'm sorry, I know this is all hard for both of you. I also know that this place hasn't helped the situation at all. It isn't like it was years ago, and not many people really know your situation.

Maybe you should give Emotional Needs a try. It started out being a discussion about ENs, but has ended up being a catchall site. There are quite of few veterans who post there regularly because they don't feel comfortable with GQ or Recovery.

Plus, don't overlook the fact that you now have reliable email service. Maybe you should reestablish your old site and get a chat going. There is also a MB Ladies board with chat.

You have lots of MB friends, we've just scattered!

Love,

Patty

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Hey Mitzi!!!.....

I have kept up on your progress through the years....glad to see that things went so well for you...that happiness, for you, was finally attainable....

yes, this is all quite the mess...quite different than 5 years ago.....

Hey there Pep!

almost forgot about that old site....and the chats we used to have....it might be a good idea...I would have to start a new one.....hmmm

Dewt said this morning that he had read my thread, and I suggested that he may want to think about not reading my threads now....that I may not want him to witness my "adjusting" to all this new "lifestyle" of his...

I don't mean that in a mean way, either, it's just that, he is dating, in real life as well as online, and I would prefer that he no longer read my posts...like his life now, they are private for me....

being the WS, even if you feel you have switched to a BS in the process does not mean that you walk away unfeelingly...I am very aware that my choices have placed us squarely where we are...and to not have emotions about it, whether negative or positive, would be inhuman, and I have not quite managed to become "inhuman" just yet...

Dewt is what he is, and is acting on that...he is a man that has been tortured and tormented since last December, has had his fill, and can now, without guilt, move on and establish a life for himself...thinking he has done everything he can in the time beforehand, to save his marriage...

This does not mean that the WS feels nothing...there are regrets, there are sadnesses, there are hurts...

If I need to pay the price for my decisions, (of course I do...we all do...)then I guess I need to find a safe place to deposit them....

but I had to ask Dewt about whether he was seeing someone, and had to remind him that hiding things was stupid and redundant at this point...that honesty was best, that hiding info and/or girlfriends would be triggers back to his infidelity...yes, even after 5 years, and even after the fact that we are no longer a couple...

triggers are still there, for the both of us, many aspects of things are still there...if either one of us thinks we can "get out of this" without feeling anything about it...well, that would be silly and untrue to most human nature...

so, we quickly discussed the need for truth...that to hide things from me/each other would be deception....since we have the children, we need openess and trust....plus I knew (from 10 yrs experience) that if I didn't ask him if he was seeing someone (it was obvious from his grooming), he probably would not feel comfortable telling me...well, hiding things at this point, would, I feel, be detrimental...so he hemmed and hawed a tiny bit, and came clean...

he met someone on his first night out, and has seen her every night since....

he is going to have a life and I need to adjust to it more quickly than I thought considering the speed with which he is "out there in the world"...

I want to make sure though, that this does not become a situation where I am a live-in babysitter for Dewt's active social life....where he gets his home kept clean, kids supervised, dinner waiting, and the only thing he needs to seek out is SF...(it's funny because in an earlier post, someone warned him to be careful about letting me move in because I would take advantage and he would end up as a live-in babysitter, etc..while I went about my "sin")

we will both have to be careful not to take advantage....

I will have to get a job, and save some 1st and last months rent..

it became apparent to me, yesterday, while watching Dewt clean his room ..

(that was weird....so was his embarassment about the filthy state of the van when his new friends were in it friday night...asking him for years to clean it up brought few results...now, he is embarrassed, so now he is going to do something about it...watching him now make the changes I have wanted to see for so long is comparable to his watching my face alight with emotion for the OW, I suppose....it is difficult to see these changes which Dewt spoke of as being made months and months ago..I suppose to entice me to come back, actually being made now, months after the fact)...

it occurred to me, like a bolt of lightening, that, he is going to want to bring a girl home eventually, he is going to want to wake up in the morning next to whomever he is with, and I'm sure he is going to want it in his own bed...

he is going to want to be able to talk to his friends without going into his room and closing the door....

I know there will be issues, and we will need to adress them...

as long as he doesn't feel the need to hide facts to "spare me", and is open, I think we have a better chance at understanding each other and helping each other through this...

we've helped each other through much in the last 10 years...hell, I even helped him leave me...somebody had to pack his and mini-dewt's bags....

it is all so weird, and I'm certain there will be alot of processing to do on both our sides...

I guess my bottom line is again, I expected something different...I thought we had acknowledged that WE had alot of work to do on US...yes, even divorced..we acknowledged that moving this relationship into a platonic co-parenting one, and talking through our resentments (both of us) was actually going to be some work....as well as adding the kids behaviour to all this..mini-dewts autism testing and school behavioural probs..well, dating for dewt removes alot of other stuff from his mind...I had hoped perhaps for more time for us to calm down, for all of this to be not quite so fresh...and to do the work required on healing this family...

he's out there in the dating world days after insisting that we could still recover this....

when does Dewt's healing take place?!?...I know we all mourn relationships differently...how much will he have to have on his "plate" before it's all too much and he finds himself with residual probs, etc...

I guess I worry....

I will mourn my way, and will let him mourn his...

and hope for the best...and of course, learn to be the "best friend" I really want to be for him....

if and when he falls, and/or meets conflict, or can't handle me living here, in his sights, or whatever, I need to be able to lend a hand, an ear (the one that isn't screaming in infected pain) and maybe get to the stage where he can even borrow a shoulder...

for me, personally, this will require time, patience and adjusting....

for Dewt, it just might mean dating immediatly to loosen the spectre of me...to get me the "hell out of his life" in that emotional way..

I respect his pain, having been there, and have to respect his decisions....even the double standard by which he guides himself ....

I add that soley from the fact that Dewt told me that when I started "going out" and "dating"...he would "freak out".....that is not coming from a place of bitterness...

I need to learn friendship feelings instead of spousal ones...for instance, I now have to "grow up" and overlook the 6am return home from a bar night....or the 45 minute "pop-out" to meet a date and the return after 3hrs....

I can worry, but not as a spouse...

what do we do with emotions and reactions we feel we have no rights to??!?!


these are all changes we have to get used to...

to say that I can adjust to this in the blink of an eye...well, that would be a lie...and as Dewt has stated here many times, rightly so....I am not a good liar...

so no lies...I must aclimatise to this new dynamic...

it might not be easy, but it is a direct consequence of a choice I made...

may god grant me grace....

Dylan

<small>[ August 09, 2004, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: soulloss ]</small>

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Peppermint, you don't by any chance have the address for my old site?...my e-mail got zapped last year..sadly, most of my communications with friends is gone....

sad really, because alot of that was my form of journaling...if you have any of my old e-mails, by the way, I would love it if you could forward them to me....

Nicole, sadly, deleted or lost most of hers to and from me, as well.....

I let my yahoo account go too long, and they held it for me, but the address only...none of the contents...

this makes writing my eventual book a little more difficult...remember the meeting on Oprah idea...LOL...

or maybe we should just join the chat here....make it easier on all of us....technologically challenged as I am...
Dylan

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Hey,

I lost everything to a computer crash many months back, so I don't have the address or anything either.

If you are interested, I will TRY to post a link for the Ladie's Forum and you can try that!

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thank you....I will check it out....

we'll just have to remember everything for Oprah... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

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OPRAH! I remember that plan. It was you, Nicole, Sheryl, and me altogether on Oprah, sharing our stories of friendship made through MB and infidelity. I still think that would be a great show!

I remember most of it, but I would sure love to have all those posts. Have you searched the archives here? There has to be at least some of them around!!!!

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Soulloss, I don't think I've ever posted to you before, but had to smile when I read your thread and saw the reference to ACIM.

I've been a student of it for many years; it's helped keep me sane! Peace to you!

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Pep...LOL..yup...add lostva in there and you had the "core" that were going to bombard poor Oprah with our stories about internet friendships and support groups...

I would love to find some of those...but were they not in the time of the great "board-collapse", and gone forever, according to Steve Harley?....

well, since I assume I will have alot of time on my hands, I should do an archive search....

those were free-spirited and fun threads...kind of similar to our pool party threads...

hey there CSue...

good to know I made you smile.....it has been my "quote" for many years....I will change it when my journey into darkness has ended... for now, it is still long and cruel...and yes, I am still deeply into it...

I found this from one of Orchids posts....


Suddenly Single? The 5 Stages of Grief

Death of a spouse or breakup of a marriage or long-term relationship can trigger similar responses in a person. Each person mourns a loss differently. However, there are 5 common stages of grief a person goes through when mourning the loss of a relationship.
You may not experience these stages in one fluid order. You may go through some of the stages more than once. Sometimes an event can trigger you to experience one of these stages again. For instance, cleaning out the basement and finding an old shirt of your deceased spouse or hearing your ex-partner is to remarry might cause reoccurrence of certain stages. The five stages of grief are:

1.Denial – The "No, not me" stage.
This stage is filled with disbelief and denial. If your partner has died you still expect him to walk through the door. If your partner has asked for a break-up you think that she will change her mind.

2.Anger/Resentment – The "Why me?" stage.
Anger at the situation, your partner and others are common. You are angry with the other person for causing the situation and for causing you pain. You might feel anger at your deceased partner for dying. You may feel anger at your partner for asking for a divorce and breaking up the family.

3. Bargaining – The "If I do this, you’ll do that" stage.
You try to negotiate to change the situation. If you’ve lost a spouse to death you might bargain with God, "I’ll be a better person if you’d just bring him back". You might approach your partner who is asking for the break-up and say "If you’ll stay I’ll change".

4. Depression- The "Its really happened" stage.
You realize the situation isn’t going to change. The death or break-up happened and there is nothing to bring the other person back. Acknowledgement of the situation often bring depression. This could be a quiet, withdrawn time as you soak in the situation.

5. Acceptance – The "This is what happened" stage.
Though you haven’t forgotten what happened you are able to begin to move forward.


I think they may apply, even if the disolution of the relationship was your decision...so....I'll be in here...adjusting....and working on "me"...

Dylan

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another good one I found....

will take the time to really absorb this one...


too many feelings, too many issues, too much hurt...

There are five steps in making a decision like divorce--just as there are five steps to dealing with grief.

1. Accepting the fact that this is going to really, really, REALLY hurt.

2. Accepting the fact that you are going to lose some of the things that are precious to you now.

3. Realizing that it's going to hurt, and knowing that there is going to be loss, you decide to move ahead anyway.

4. About half-way through, you second-guess yourself and wander in the Valley of Indecision.

5. Deciding to move forward with your decision and learning to adapt to the new way of life.

Envision this a little like a person who has cut their right arm and the wound gets gangrene. The person knows that eventually they will either have to cut off their right arm or the gangrene will kill them. They have to go through the five steps!

First they have to emotionally adjust to the fact that cutting off their arm is going to really, really, REALLY hurt--physically, mentally, and emotionally.

Next, they have to accept that they are going to lose their right arm and everything that their right arm can do. They will never have their arm again. They will never, ever again be able to put their arms around someone...or throw a baseball...or bowl...or write a letter to their gramma...or embroider. Their right arm is precious to them, and they have to accept that there is going to be a loss.

Next, they make the decision--the arm HAS to come off. They tell the doctor and schedule the surgery and start sewing their shirts.

Oh-oh! Then they enter the Valley of Indecision and wander around awhile. They wonder: "Am I making the biggest mistake of my life? What if this goes away? What if I could KEEP my arm? What will my family think? My friends think I should try homeopathic remedies, but I just don't believe in it. What if they're right? What if people are disappointed I gave up on my arm?"

Some people get stuck here, in the Valley of Indecision, for quite a while. Meanwhile, it's not like the gangrene stops while they decide. It's still poisoning their system and progressing. In fact, if they stay stuck here too long, it could eventually threaten their life!

Finally, one day, they embrace it: they are going to one-armed. The surgery is finished, and they miss their right arm. There are some regrets and some loss, but they gradually move on and adjust. They open a store for left-handed people. They invent a new prosthetic arm. They realize that ONE arm is enough to hug someone. And they are ALIVE, and life is what counts.

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so...this is going to be alot harder than I thought....but then again, isn't most everything...

harder than we thought, I mean...

time to take the bitterness, wrestle it to the ground, exorcise the demons, and emerge whole and healed....

need a plan...need to focus on my son...putting my "dominoes" into place, as it were...

school starts soon, so will mini-dewt's testing for autism, as well as the family counseling that occurs with the psycho-social evaluation of a child....

my aim is to be there for my son...and to get him the best help we can...to have him be as healed and as whole as he can be, as well...

I need an income...

to be being given an "allowance" (for food and the kids' and I's daily needs) and left feeling like I am Dewt's responsibility because the parameters of what I thought I was moving into have changed and because he feels "bad", or "guilty", or whatever word you'd like to put in there...it's a little much for me...and probably will shortly feel like the proverbial albatross around poor Dewt's neck.....

His new friend has mentioned to him that she may need a manager-type for her retail shop...

he made a disclaimer before telling me of the offer, as in ..."I probably would dismiss the offer, considering where it came from..."

the whole situation is insane, so why would an offer of employment from Dewt's new friend be too bizarre to believe?!?!

school will start, and I will not turn my back on anything that might be a viable option....but yes. it certainly would be weird to be working there and my boss is having a relationship with my Ex....

he is worried about the effects of this on me...

I need income...I need a job....

I have nothing here...

even Dewt said to me that he feels badly..because for me, this is a dead-end small town...much as smallville, ontario was...no future for me here...a future for him... yes...his mom's family is here, he has a good job, and now is setting up the "foundations" for his life...

almost feels like I was brought here under false pretences and am now left to deal with all the parameters that have been moved around....

nothing is as we discussed it....the truths from which we made our decisions no longer hold true...

I did not have much, but I did leave everything behind...because I believed we could co-parent, I believed in what he said, I believed in the boundries laid out....I believed we would still be a "team"...focussing on the mini...because that is how Dewt portrayed it....

things change....that is the one constant in life...

I need to help my son, then I need to help myself...

and I need to learn how to move on...

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I also know that this place hasn't helped the situation at all. It isn't like it was years ago, and not many people really know your situation.

this type of stuff really irks me...
truth is that the nature of this board and the fact that NO ONE here KNOWS everything about anyone...
doesn't negate the reality that people can help and assist...even in spite of not knowing EVERYTHING in the past..

infact I would argue that people that don't know EVERYTHING may offer a more objective pathways than those that want to protect from past issues...

soul-loss...
the truth is that people can and do survive HORRIFIC episodes in their lives without being perpetual victims to the pain and hurt that occurred in their past...

I have such a hard time with your need to find yourself...

it's such a nebulous statement to begin with...
and such a nebulous pursuit....

that one can go around for years saying I need to discover and find myself...and miss the part that it is in each and every day actions and interactions that we discover and define and even find ourselves.....

not some quest or adventure....
but day to day interactions.....


things change....that is the one constant in life...

people change also soul-loss...but rarely by constantly focusing on the past...but looking towards today....

I really encourage you to stop focusing so much on the negative in your past...even inspite of what it is/was...because the more you stay focused on it...then the more you are still suffering from it...

look at what you gain and what identification you gain by being tied so strongly to it...
and see where it is holding you back.....


ARK

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Double Quote here! LOL

Soulloss wrote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I also know that this place hasn't helped the situation at all. It isn't like it was years ago, and not many people really know your situation.

Ark wrote:

this type of stuff really irks me...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ditto Arks comment to this! May be that the people here are not the same......but apparently we are doing something right! BECAUSE there are a lot of M's being saved! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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I need to find a way to lay down my own boundries.....and to apply, and then stick to them...

enough capitulating....

enough "caving-in"...

enough establishing the "rules" and then having them disrespected or broken within days of establishing them...

all of our patterns are re-emerging within this new dynamic...we need to open our eyes, see it and change it...

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great.....

now through my posting, I have lent the impression that Dewt is some drunken slut out on a binge every weekend...

sigh....

I can't win for losing...

although, to be honest...radically so, in Harley terms....in the past week, I have wished on more than one occasion to be on a drunken slut binge myself....

not literally, you understand...just might be nice to be able to "drown" my sorrows and pain...either in drink or another's companionship....

simple enough.....jealousy that he has it in himself to drown out his pain and sorrow....

but the choices I've made lead down a painful path, but from that pain comes growth and learning...and hopefully, an end to the repetitive patterns in my life...

but I still don't want my postings misunderstood, nor do I want to then have those postings come back to introduce bitterness or resentment or anger on his part directed at me....

honesty is important.....

so is explaining things clearly so no harsh judgments take place....unecessary harsh judgments.....they just drive him further into the land of doing things that are not in his best interests....

in order to live here for now, I almost have to plan A...no disrespectful judgments and no harsh outbursts....

here, on MB and also in real life...more importantly, in real life...

he can't be confronted with my pain..it's not fair to him.....he has done nothing "wrong"....


I made my bed......now I get to sleep in it...


and sometimes, sleeping in a new bed takes a little adjusting...


see.......it's all about adjusting....


Dylan

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My gawd!!! I stop by the board for the first time in months and months and whose post is at the top???

Dylan, all I can say is that I'm so very, very sorry. I wasn't aware that things had gone so steeply downhill. This causes me great pain and sadness as you and Dewt were there for me when I needed it.

I've gotta run now, but will check back in. If you want your old board info(both of them), I've got 'em at home.

Much love and platonic hugs to you...
DeWayne

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I am trying to work through my personal pain ....

I stated that I am "dumping it" here, because I have no real outlet to in real life..I need to process the past and aspects of it that I have not.....

not wallow...but see, acknowledge, and learn from...

if I learn where and what cause "reacting" and "bitterness" and feelings of "martyrdom", then , with causes identified, I need not fall in those traps again...

just for the record, for both Ark and Atruheart, I did not make the comment about this place not being the same or helpful anymore.....


I understand how this comment would irk....

I think perhaps it was mentioned in reference to Dewt and I...not the site or the help offered itself...

Dewt himself has stated that he does not do well with the 2x4 aspect he feels that he received here.... he feels he was harshly judged on his "stumbles"...and that perhaps, if he had not felt so maligned, he would not have felt like overturning his own apple cart quite so very forcefully....

I apologize if anything in this thread offends, upsets or antagonizes...

but this is where (and it's the only place I have right now) I am putting it all...all the hurt, all the pain, all the goals, all the positive and negative.....all the truths from within me....all the situations that I am going through...regardless of how I or anyone else comes across....

I need honesty...from me, from those around me...I will get nowhere by lying to myself, or just reacting, getting angry, feeling put upon, etc...

I can experience these, but can no longer be a slave to them....hence, dump it here, and move forward...


I am explaining this very badly and paraphrasing

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oops double post

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: soulloss ]</small>

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Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
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