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Myad and my children are gone to visit family. I had to stay behind due to a prior commitment with my company – though not in total, I have regained most of what I lost professionally due to his A.

I can also make the announcement here that in the past few weeks I have regain most of the trust I held in him before d-day and even found some trust that I nave had in him. Taa-daa! I thought that that would never happen.

I have always loved him, and am back to thanking God every night for him, and how fortunate I am to have him in my life – his absence is hard, for a variety of reasons, but the biggest is that he is the sunshine in my life, the desert at the end of my day. I place my head on his and hear his heart beat and know I am home.

And finally, once again, after 5 to 7 years of absence, when he is near me, laying next to me, with or without his arms around me, I feel enveloped by him – it is a feeling that I longed for as we were growing steadily apart.

But something has also happened that threatens me and my recovery in a very big way.

It is guilt – for my marriage to xh. I wrote about it in another thread, but in my inability to sleep because Myad is not here (I’m back to sleeping peacefully and deeply with him next to me) I thought I’d pull it out to it’s own.

There are some here on MB who have said that my relationship with Myad began as an affair -- even though my x-husband quite literally “beat me” out of the relationship, that he was the one who stalled the divorce for almost 2 years, that we had been in MC and IC for almost the entire length of the marriage trying to save it, (that fact alone gives me some peace because I feel I do qualify for Dr. Phil’s “Earning your way out of marriage”).

I was prepared to leave years before I did and the only thing that kept me there was finding out I was pregnant with our 2nd child. I still can travel back to that phone call at work, when I found out I was pregnant – I was happy to be pregnant on one hand, but felt doomed on the other (several times he had me on the floor during pregnancy with #2 child, kicking my back) Even our minister was glad when I left him, the final marriage counselor we had gone to (at his insistence) cheered me on instead of telling me to go back to him (I think he was dumbfounded at that session, because I can’t remember him getting angry).

My x does blame Myad for our marriage ending. True his was in the circle of friends waiting to help when I decided it was time to leave, true he gave me a safe place to stay, and also true I probably had an EA going with him (very easy to do when your own husband beats you for crying because he views it as weak. I was so miserable that to cry I would often wake up in the middle of the night, go to the living room, bury my head in a pillow and cry – as long as xh didn’t hear me, I was “safe” – one day, while at work, it all became too much for me and I turned to Myad, as we were working on the computers, buried my head in his shoulder and cried, and cried. For his part he was shocked and unsure what to do, except to let me cry. )

Beating was an often occurrence, he beat me once and pulled down a bookcase on top of me all because I didn’t want pizza that night. He’d beat me because I didn’t want to have sex with him – hard to feel anything for a person, closes, safety, desire, connectedness, etc. when he beats you. I couldn’t even go to work (I was the breadwinner as he either had no job or a part time job) without being threatened – if he couldn’t find something he would call and I’d have to rush right home. Trying to go to school and complete my degree was another nightmare – he beat me before finals and then told our minister that I deserved it. I could go on

He also used my vows against me .. he abuse was because he was ill and I promised “in sickness and in health” – It should have been easy for me to kick him out, but I cried as I packed up dishes for him.


Myad did say the words that I finally heard. “You make your choice. Either you cut your losses and end your marriage or make a decision to stay and quite complaining about the abuse.” Funny, as I think about it now, though many people knew, the only person I told the full extent to was Myad.

Xh still blames Myad for our marriage ending. XH and I can now hold mostly normal telephone conversations. He recently asserted that I was always out until xx am in the morning with Myad when xh and I were married, that there was an affair. His statement ticked me off, because if that had been the case xh would have killed me – he beat me one day when he thought (no proof) that I was having an affair with the next door neighbor. The windows were open and the next door neighbor he was accusing (falsely) heard me being beaten and heard why. (Great hero that next door neighbor was, actually all three of the guys over there -- none of them ran to our front door to help me or to set the record straight.)

Xh- delayed our divorce, much of that time was used to try to control and bully me. Most of the abuse complaints I swore out on him were during this time. I started divorce proceedings at 3.5 years of marriage and they weren’t final until close to five years of marriage. During that time I was dating Myad while still married to xh, so it was technically an affair, and yes, if I was having and EA with Myad (which I probably was) .. it was an affair.

This knowledge, affirmation, now haunts me. Even though his violence (which won’t own to this day, he denies, even told our D that I was the violent one in the relationship – bruises, police reports and witnesses beg to differ) drove me out of the marriage, I am now struck with guilt over the technicality of the affair and the pain I must have caused him.

That guilt can be overwhelming and because of his inability to take responsibility about his violence, etc. (he’s still violent) and the real possibility that making amends may do me harm - I now, with Myad’s A#2, am racked with guilt over the pain I caused another human being – with no way to atone.

I has become a very big stumbling block for me and my personal recovery over Myad’s A#2. In contrast to my “take no responsibility for my own actions” XH, Myad stood up and has not only taken responsibility but grown tremendously as a person .

I love being with him, have fun with him now – can actually say that we had our “lost” time, but are now back with each other, and trust him in many ways now, more than I may be willing to admit – more than I did before… I love him so much and thank God for him everyday.

My full recovery may not come and sometimes that guilt is so strong that I have to fight for presence of mind. Sometimes, especially now with Myad gone, I am not sure how to handle it – it can be overwhelming and oppressive.

I can be found at times wondering if I shouldn't just leave this marriage to make up for what I've done -- but then I remember that 5 more people will be hurt. Sometimes the self distructive part of me gets to fun free in my thoughts for just a moment -- to be recaptured a minute later.

So those of you BSs whose WS has left, moved on and in with OP, you can take heart and find some peace here. Sometimes a WS does take heart and take stock and live with pain over what they’ve done. And sometimes that pain is crushing.

Way2

<small>[ August 17, 2004, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

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Your "exit" affair very possibly saved your life and the lives of your children.

Your first husband is clearly mentally ill and to feel guilt for leaving him, by whatever means it took to get you out of there serves no purpose whatsoever, it is purely masochistic.

You did something that alot of women are unable to do, and that is to leave an abuser who is threatening your life, and that of your children.
I applaud you for what you did, and if it took an affair to get you away from him, then thank God for that affair.

Obviously he didn't suffer enough at the hands of your affair, or he would be rependent of the pain he inflicted on you, which he is not.

You did something that in my opinion deserves applause, you got away from him. Be grateful and move on. Seek council if you must, and don't let the ghost of all those years ago, beat you up now. You don't deserve it.

Bless you,
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Way2,

I've read your thread (and this my 1st time reading anything you or Myad have written).

I've been there (where you were in your 1st marriage). I had a "marriageless divorce" - I mean, I never married him, but we had 2 children and never made it to the alter (Thank God). I divorced myself from the "situation".

I read (and interallized ) your pain. I used to "feel" guilt over never "trying to work things out with the father of my children - b/c they "deserved" their father. I now, see that I don't owe him anything - he hit me - he cursed me - he took my very spirit from me - he made my inability to trust (anyone) amplified - he never "loved" me. I was with him for 3.5 years too. I have prayed over the years (just alittle over 20), if I had done the right thing - God does answer prayers. (I just read your thread and I got *validation*).

I once read an article that describe the life of a battered woamn of that of a hostage. It went on to say so many things about the way your "captor" (your XH) rules everything about your life - pizza for dinner - your ability to do your job - the not knowing if "this" or "that" will trigger another beating. I too had I situation where no one came to my "defense" - it truly amazed me, that so many people listened and watched as I got the tar kicked out of me and the manager asked so nicely "Can you take this outside - We're getting ready to serve dinner?". They let him lead me out the door - to who knows what!!!! I had only applied a freash coat of lipstick at a friend's wedding - He was convinced I was having an A with the groom's bestman.

I know my H's EA has hurt my M. I know *WE* have so much too work on in our M. But, I know my H - would not, could not ever hurt me the way my X did. I too have to "trust" again - it was hard enough to do in the first place. But, I will - b/c I feel safe with my H (I feel at "home" with my H). My H is truly the first person I have ever been loved by and loved so much.

I'm sorry if this thread rambled on a bit .... 20 years in a nutshell ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ).

Hang in there!!! BUILD your M.

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After being up into the early hours of the morning I slept when I saw the first light of daybreak.

Weaver -

Thank you. I had always felt that Myad was my knight in shining armor. In IC after Myad's A#2 I told my counselor that during my marriage to xh I had one recurring dream, it was of a knight come to rescue me and take me away from the mess and the pain of the marriage. In the dream I would always look for the face of my knight and he never had one, under his helmet it was blank and black. I had this dream almost every night for months, maybe even a year or two.

Then one night in the dream when I went to look at the face of my knight, it was Myad's face. There after it was always Myad's face. This dream was always so clear -- my IC found this significant, she ask if I have ever told him about the dreams ... I had.

My EA started with Myad the day I turned to him and just cried. He held me, not knowing what else to do. We had just been casual friends prior to that day.. I actually always thought he and XXXX would be good together.

I have always thanked God that he was there ... but as of late I am finding it hard to reconcil that doing something so wrong was what was intended. Something like Judas betraying Jesus, without which there would be no Easter.

I guess this was an exit affair. XH did feel the whole BS 9 yards, I'm sure -- I used to be able to put it all in a nice little box but now it's all so muddied ...

Getting out was the right thing to do -- but done the wrong way? Last year here on MB (maybe even 1.5 years ago) several people said that critized the timing of my relationship with Myad .. back then I wouldn't even admit it was an A (EA/PA at some point it did get physical while I was still married to xh)... but it has haunted me ever since, and been the fuel to question whether I should stay in this marriage.

It was wrong, as is the mantra here on MB, there is no excuse for an A. I know in life there are so many gray areaa .. good things that have come out of bad and wrong situations -- but how do I reconcil this now?

Brown -

Wow! thanks .. you gave me insight as to why my trust favor in people has been so low.

Thank you

way2

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Way2,

I wrote you on the other thread. My H punched me when we were arguing about this woman from work whom he said kept calling her and it would be rude of him to hang up. I was home one week from a five day stay in the hospital for surgery which included a hysterectomy. I had a catheter bag, was on Perkaset, and Cipro. The punch broke my ulna in seven pieces, requiring three surgeries and arm in a cast or splint up past the elbow for 4 months. When the A was exposed, it was incomparably worse than the broken arm, even under those circumstances.

That is my story which leads to my perspective. What you did to your xH, whether he beat you or not, was inexcusable. Your actions were your responsibility. You needed to divorce him, not have an affair.

That said, what your H has done to you is inexcusable and in no way was the way your own relationship started a justification for what he did to you.

Don't compound the pain of what your H has done to you by looking to the past. And don't think we BSs smirk when we hear that story. I would not want to wish on Sophia what she did to me with my H. Never. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, not Sophia, not you, not Ted Bundy...

Take care of yourself.

Cherished

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Way2
as a BH who is right now up most nights, I work in the welfare area with victims of DV and I can assure you that you have nothing to feel guilty about.
I deal with a lot similar issues, did you know 30% of my clients are men?? Yes, women also attack men, though sadly it is most often the other way round.
You probably saved the life of your child and yourself by leaving, by confiding in Myad at that time. My experience indicates that your possible EA interest most likely enabled you to get out alive and at the least in one piece. Both you and the children.
That you feel compassion still for the Xh even after all you experienced demonstrates that you are a good and kind person.
You have happiness now and are moving on, dont let the tragedy of the past cause any more pain, live for today and the future.

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dO not SACRIFICE the marriage you have now, because it was started before your first marriage was finished. That would be insane!

Go to your clergy, ask him to say a prayer with you asking God for forgiveness and also ask God to bless your current marriage. If you don't have a church then call one that you think you would like and ask the minister if you could meet with him for some council.

Please don't let what happened in your past effect your future and your marriage, that would be the biggest sin of all.

You did not cause your current problems by seeking safety and shelter from another man before you were divorced. You did what you needed to do to survive. Maybe that was God's way of saving you, how do you know it wasn't. The only forgiveness you need is from God and yourself, and you already have God's forgiveness, all you have to do is ask.

Don't you dare let yourself or anyone else beat you up for what you perceive to be a past sin. I personally think what ever it takes for a woman to get away from an abuser is a blessing.


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Cherished

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And don't think we BSs smirk when we hear that story </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know good and well there are BSs here who will enjoy the pain I'm in. It is something some look forward to when they hear that the WS and the OP will have trouble down the road and that these relationships don't last (my relationship with Myad has already lasted 3 times longer than my relationship to xh).

Even he was giddy when he asked in a phone call a few weeks ago if Myad and I were still arguing alot -- he reported that D once said we argued every day. I responded that we USED TO but we have been to marriage counseling, done the work and have grown and maybe have one argument every three months now. (Then I called D and asked here not to discuss my marriage with her bio-dad)

Can I ask you a question? Was that the only time your h abused you? Or was it years of physical and emotional abuse?

aussie2 and weaver
Your posts combined had me in tears. In Recovery, where this thread also is I said that maybe I am allergic to happiness.

For 14 years your words (and FH and others on In Recovey) were exactly how I framed and dealt with the situtation. But now that doesn't seem enough.

There are so many variables now .. what I am truly repentant about, what I am not sorry about at all, etc. ... there may be no absolution.

way2

<small>[ August 13, 2004, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

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way2 --

Years of physical and emotional abuse. The most serious was when he pushed down on my forehead so hard (1/3/98) that I still have a lump. That was in front of our 2 and 4 year old children. There were also chokings, his pushing me down when I was 7 months pregnant with our now 8 year old, a broken windshield, a pounded in door, being pushed down, being thrown against a wall, being spanked (possible first memory of our now 5 year old), so many times being sworn at that I woudl estimate maybe 2,000 times being told "F... you",...I got used to it. The broken arm was 12/17/01. The broken arm didn't phase me at all. I was so concerned about the possible affair that it just plain didn't matter. I would estimate 50 incidents of physical abuse towards me.

Why did I stay? I accepted blame. I was too controlling and demanding. I wasn't a good wife. When he started talking about Sophia, he blamed Sophia -- "She's calling me, and it would be rude of me to hang up."

I got so upset that my H got me into therapy. He never faced his own abuse of me. He told me last week that "the veil started to lift" when he broke my arm. It was four months later that I called Harley's show, he told me to call OWH, and OWH then got the truth out of OW.

I have now gone to about 70 sessions of IC, and I would summarize what I learn this way: "I am 100% responsible for my behavior, and Tom is 100% responsible for his. Neither Sophia nor I are responsible for Tom choosing to have an affair."

You are responsible for having an affair with xH. If you were trying to deal with abuse, that was a very poor way, indeed. You needed to call the police and divorce him, not get involved with another man.

Your H is responsible for his affairs. You are in no way responsible.

Maybe there are BSs out there who think you had it coming to you. Maybe. BSs know the pain caused by an affair. I think most, if not all, would not want anyone to go through that pain...I am writing you because I don't want you to take on the guilt of your H having an affair.

Cherished

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am writing you because I don't want you to take on the guilt of your H having an affair.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not .. never really have. The guilt I am talking about is the guilt from having an A with Myad while married to xh ... all Myad's A did was open up this box of issues I had thought I had long sinced closed.

The responsibility for that A is mine (unlike your H my xh has never woken up) -- but because of how my close realtionship and then marriage to Myad started, I am now so filled with guilt that I don't know if I can get out.

How does one make ammends? Give up that which I cherish because it was ill gotten?

way2

<small>[ August 13, 2004, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

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Listen, Way2:

My WW just Divorced me LAST WEEK for the OM. I'm in such pain over her betrayal I can hardly think. But know this, what you did was different and should not be judged as betrayal! Your ex lost every right to expect anything but an exit from you.
My xW's OM thinks he's a knight. I should send him your story.

I grew up with the spectre of physical abuse adultery and incest. Your escape was a Godsend for you and your children.

For you to then have to deal with an A in your second M is tragic, but Myad woke up to what he has in you. A queeen. A QUEEN, who whose compassion runs so deep, whose forgiveness is so strong, that she is reaching--farther than we could--for the humanity of the inhumane.

Bless you lady. Lose the guilt. It ill befits a woman of your grace.

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Way2 is that email addy still valid on your page? KB

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Way2 --
I'm sorry that I didn't understand. Look at the story of David and Bathsheba in the Bible. Dave remained married to her.

Going back, yes, you may have divorced xH and then developed a relationship with your H. Can't go back.

What you did was wrong, but that does not mean you are meant to carry that guilt with you and have it destroy the rest of your life.

I feel for you. One husband hurt you physically and the other betrayed you. You don't deserve either the physical abuse or the betrayal. Not ever. No matter what you did.

My sister told me, "Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself." You need to forgive yourself for what you did so long ago. It is never justified to have an affair, but that does not mean you need to torture yourself with sins of the past. You are in a new life now with your H. Work on that. Don't dwell on mistakes of the past.

Cherished

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yes my email addres is way21981@yahoo.com

dleightonc
Thank you -- I was surprised to see you respond to me .. your post also brought me to tears .. thank you.

I wish I could just zap the guilt away.

Cherished
You know as long as Myad grew from this and became better, it wasn't a loss -- I have gained more too (my trust is even greater now than before his A#2) ... before we grew apart I always viewed us on a journey, that was best done, and we were our best traveling together... we lost that when we drifted apart ... those feelings are back again.

My biggest triumph, for the kind of person I view myself, would be and is not to stay stuck in the mess of his A, but to live beyond that.

But I also hold higher expecations for myself than I hold for others. This was one reason I could not forgive myself for over 10 years for having an A after I was sexually assaulted in the ER .. Myad never deserved that.

But Myad forgave me... I wronged xh too-- but forgiveness won't come from there. And if he says he will, it will not be sincere. It will only add fuel to the "I blame everyone else for the wrongs in my life" fire.

There can be no amends made

way2

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Way2 --
There can be no amends made. That is very true. You need to let it rest....

I have looked back and wondered -- what if I did call the woman's husband earlier? what if we didn't have a fourth child? what if that child was a boy instead of a third girl? what if?

What ifs? are about the past and rob me of the present. Take care of yourself...

Cherished

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Way2, you have (warning, long!) mail. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> KB

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KB -- you have mail too

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Cherished and All -

I don't have "what ifs" in this regard. Only facts, and loose ends .. things that need resolution.

Another email (not KBs) asked me why I was listening to only one side .. the side that said I'm guilty and not the said that says there was no marriage due to xh actions (even ForeverHers {in recovery} surprised me and is on the side of the latter .. I expect him to be kicking my rear, he is, but in a different direction)

My response is that I really don't know. Maybe self flagellation -- a belief that if I beat myself up enough about this I will emmerge clean -- sort of like wearing the hair shirts of old.

I really don't know.

way2

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You know I just had a wave of emotion flow through me ... maybe all of this, what brought me to MB, the miserable life I had been living 5 years before Myad's A ... maybe in all of this I have gotten what I have deserved.

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Here is my update .. there isn't much of one.

I emailed Myad that I was having some trouble with an issue that i was trying to resolve in MB. He has lurked here before, reading my posts and giving me assistance when he can.

I am still struggling. Some moments I am okay, this is a past wrong -- the whole situation was wrong, that I've learned from.

But then I ask myself about the "mistake" of marrying Myad -- was it? I know how totally wrecked I was in my relationship with xh.

My sister and bil even sent the cops to help me out twice .. I responded by being angry with her. He did a wonderful job terrorizing me.

One day on the way home from somewhere I was driving (I had a muscle car which I loved) he said something and I got upset, stopped the car and got out to walk. He told me to get back into the car or he would wreck the car (it was the only vehicle we had) I got back in, this time in the passengere seat, he told me to get on the floor -- he had this look (my son sometimes get's it when he get angry and I have to fight to keep my presence {this is OS not xh})

I complied -- he drove crazy, scaring me, I couldn't see out I was on the floor, he said things about wrecking the car and killing us both, what he would do if I did xyz or what he would do if I didn't do abc ... he finally pulled up to our house .. his friend was there waiting for us... scared and humiliated I pulled myself from the floor infront of both of them and went inside.

That's the first time I've ever written that day out. My head is swimming and I'm in tears just thinking about and writing about it.

Why did I stay? I didn't want to fail, I didn't want to walk out on someone who was sick... my vows meant something to me, and he knew it -- and he used it..

I told some of my story once to a retired Cleveland police officer while we were waiting for a train .. he asked me where in my vows did it say I was to be used as a punching bag.

I can look back and say "Yes I should have ended it at such and such a time." but I can allow appreciate and understand the stockholm syndrome -- battered wives syndrome ... I was there...

So how do I weigh this .. I had an EA --- a bad thing that resulted in a marriage to a man who I love and makes me happy .. good thing

Even through all the pain of the As, and the growth both of us have been through I wouldn't trade Myad for xh, and would never go back to xh.

I just am trying to get to a place of peace and resolution over this.

way2

<small>[ August 16, 2004, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

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Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
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