My posts are sporadic over the last few days. I'm in Plan A and have seen/heard/felt a big difference since exposing A to OM's mother. I still haven't exposed to WW's work as I'm following the advice of "those who know" - use WW's work as last resort.

Today I went to see a lawyer about the legality of a separation agreement in California. The conversation went well beyond the 30 minute consultation and I was delayed picking up DD from a friends house. WW called my cell several times but I left it in the car. I guess on purpose because I didn't want to interupt the "lawyer clock". WW says she was worried, left work and picked up DD. I called her cell and told her I was delayed. She asked what happened. I told her I was at an appointment and all the way home I contemplated making up some other excuse. Earlier in this process, I told myself I will never lie and have nothing but complete honesty. So I told WW where I was. The reaction was mixed. I could see concern, anger and confusion. I was told earlier by an experienced MBr to expect that. I was prepared. WW said "I guess it's over now". No LB's. Just explained that I needed to find out about the legalities of a separation agreement because I don't know or trust the OM and I was protecting us." Without going too far with details, I didn't LB during the entire 2 hour conversation. I did tell WW that I wasn't going to pay a dime for the other apartment or anything associated with it. I didn't tell her anything about Plan B or what may ultimately come. There's my dilemma. WW gave me the credit card, check book and said "I'll open a separate account tomorrow. You can have my name removed from all joint accounts." I told her that isn't what I wanted and that I trust her to no end but I just don't trust OM. Trying the reverse fog babble. WW said "nope, that's what you said and you won't have to pay a dime for anything associated with the apartment. I'll get a second job if I have to".

Minutes later WW's getting dressed and said "I'm going to look for furniture." That took about 1 1/2 hours to actually leave. I could tell her mind/heart were scattered and she just left a few minutes ago.

My concern is that I may have taken away one of the EN's (financial support) before I went dark. Does it seem that way? I'm maintaining "using my head vice my heart" and it seems to be working but the sinking feeling in my heart makes me question myself and the MB plan. I know it works because everything I've read/applied was written somewhere on the MB site. Can someone provide either a 2X4 or clarity so my hands will quit shaking.

I did tell WW before she left (in a non-LB fashion) that DD and I will be going to the movies and asked if WW wanted to go with us. Didn't take me up on the offer.

Another thank you in advance.

Lost,

While I probably wouldn't have pulled the financial aspects out at this point, you don't get a 2x4. You seem to have handled conversations well. If you don't want to pull support from her at this point, tell her this tomorrow. If she plays the same game, then let her know that you'll respect her wishes.

Thanks K. That makes sense. Funny she's only been gone 30 minutes and as I was reading your post, she called. She wanted to know if DD was up from her nap and WW said "I'll be home in about 30 minutes. I'm just over at Jermomes furniture store looking for cheap furniture based on my budget." I just said okay and I'll see you in a bit. I thought about talking to her about money, but taking your advice, I figure she's still "way in the fog" and may offer to return the financial support tomorrow once WW's gotten some sleep.

A side note. WW runs marathons and will be running one on the East coast in a couple of weeks. Initially WW said she wasn't going because of money (this was when WW found out apartments in southern California are not cheap) but I reinforced to her that I would ensure she went (financially speaking). I think I may have an opportunity to offer back my support tomorrow.

Is that baiting? or should I let it ride and not bring up supporting because I don't want to set boundaries and then break them.

LS,

The BS actually should want the WS to spend all the $$ the WS (not the family) can afford on the A. Lack of $$ is one of the things that brings the A down quicker than anything. re: $$ has no feelings. You either have it or don't...... can't hide that in the fog. Oh but the WS try but #s don't lie. So use that to your advantage.

The fact that she mentions she has to go buy cheap furniture shows she is already hurting. If I were you, I'd wonder out loud why her 'new friend' can't help her out in this dept.... I mean really..... she is leaving your family for someone who gives her less? Boy that sure doesn't make sense.

The point I used was if the WS was going to have the A, why does the BS and family have to suffer $$ wise? I told the WS in my case, why should we have to suffer $$ wise? Already suffering emotionally, mentally, spiritually, etc.... and the OW claimed she was 'richer than me"..... heck go use up her $$ to pay your bills.

Ow was ready with the checkbook, til they heard my figures $$$$$$.$$ LOL!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey if you can't keep them apart, then mush them together..... not very MB like, I know but it worked for me. Just gotta be prepared that they may like that for a while. However, when the WS gets on a spending spree it is hard for them to stop. You control your $$ spout, don't let them tap into what is yours.

BTW, tell her you didn't realize her taste in furniture changed to particle board. LOL!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

<small>[ August 21, 2004, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Orchid....Funny I beginning to feel like that's what I want them to do. Get on with the A so it can get over quicker. I still have alot of hope that a WW (42) and OM (24) doesn't have much of anything in common. Work and body parts. That's about it. It pains me though. I'm getting pretty good at not showing hurt when around WW but then when I'm either driving or on the patio - BAM! The hole in my chest widens and I almost suck in the entire yard!

Once WW came back from "shopping" she was obviously still angry about the other conversation. A couple of things that I haven't seen yet. No eye contact, obvious disdain. DD and I played on the floor and WW just sat in the chair fuming. I kept Plan Aing. Made WW tea. Just sat it there and she didn't touch it. Brought WW something to eat earlier. Still sitting on the counter. Not alot of words spoken. Still new at this and the topper was when WW decided to go to bed. I told DD to lets go tuck Mommy in. Good with DD. We told ourselves early in this process that we would try and not let DD see any of this. Although I know eventually that'll wear out and DD will see what's going on. Very astute little girl and that possibility hurts/angers me....After DD left the room, WW said "if anything happens to me, take care of DD". I told her nothing is going to happen to you and I'm sorry we're going through this. WW said "it's all my fault so I deserve whatever happens". First time I've heard that and it struck a cord. In my head, I'm saying "fog babble, fog babble" but in my heart it concerns me. I don't think she'll do anything to herself and I certainly know it's one of the scenarios from SAA regarding guilt.

Guess I'm getting another view of the roller coaster ride and trying to adjust as it goes.

Thanks for listening.

If you're "lurking", it's worth the effort to log in. There are alot of folks who are willing to listen and have a heck of alot of good advice to help ease the pain.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lostsailor:
<strong> ......After DD left the room, WW said "if anything happens to me, take care of DD". I told her nothing is going to happen to you and I'm sorry we're going through this. WW said "it's all my fault so I deserve whatever happens". First time I've heard that and it struck a cord. In my head, I'm saying "fog babble, fog babble" but in my heart it concerns me. I don't think she'll do anything to herself and I certainly know it's one of the scenarios from SAA regarding guilt.

Guess I'm getting another view of the roller coaster ride and trying to adjust as it goes.

Thanks for listening.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LS,

What your W said isn't fog babble. Not the part stated above. What it is, is her attempt to get you to take the blame and relieve herself of it. Crazy but very likely. Nothing she will ever admit to either. So asking her to verify won't work. Just watch and see.

What t/d.... .continue to be a good H and dad. The better you get, the more frustatrated the WS will get. Remember the WS get frustrated, not your W. Let the Ws get as frustrated as they need. You step back and watch. They will stumble all over themselves and at the same time able to trip up the BS in a NY minute. Learn how NOT to be stumbled.

The point here is if the WS aplogizes, accept their apology and don't water it down.

Fog babble is a bit different. Please read my thread below.

L.

Meant to add something about OM's mother. I called her the other day and she is still angry with her son. She and her new husband are both A survivors. I kept the conversation sorta generic because I don't want to lose an ally by expressing my true feelings about her son. Just wanted to make sure she wasn't lied to again and to firm up her support. I'm hoping the pressure on OM increases considering he lives with his mother and is running around with my DD's mother who happens to be my wife!!! Better to vent here than do something stupid!

I could use some advice on exposing at work. If/when WW moves out, I'm going to give just a little time for the comfort level to raise and then I plan on going dark and exposing at work. I want WW to see the ugliness of this A for awhile and then I want to expedite the demise with exposure at work. I know the anger will be fast and furious but I'll prepare for that storm.

Any "this worked well for me" ideas about exposing at work? I know exposure worked because it was fast/furious with the first one.

Thanks and God Bless. BTW Orchid, I'm not sure but I don't think they have seat cushions for milk crates!.......hmmm, humor about this. Wouldn't have thought that possible two weeks ago.

Catch me up again, LS.... why their work? Do they work together? Will their respective professions be affect by it?

DLeightonic's friend sent an e-mail to OM's work. Cymanca notified OM's employer. Not all reactted the same but all did put a damper on the A. In both cases, the WS w acted as if that iced the D cake. It really didn't, just another threat but the Ws' sure do threaten a lot.

I used to get hurt when the WS threatened me. Later I learned to just roll with the punches and in some cases, I was able to throw those hurtful phrases right back at the WS.

L.

Orchid...Essentially, WW "floats" around from store to store. She is one of the Regional Office Assitant who carries quite a bit of pull. OM works in one of the stores. Not quite a cashier but not in management either. Sorta a "key person". WW has been working same company for 25 years and has developed a reputation as the "go to" and "one who gets things done" for the region.

My thought is sort of two fold. I want to expose this A only to the entities that can affect the eventual outcome. I want to start with OM's Manager but funny enough before WW admitted the A, she was telling me how this particular Manager was "spreading rumors" about WW. I had no idea what truth was there. She quickly let her boss know that "yup, that store is full of gossipy people". A pre-emptive strike now that I know the truth.

I plan on using the anonymous letter type of exposure to get the ball rolling. Something to get the HR folks interested. I thinking of the "employee who works with OM and this is going on". Of course, as of last week, WW now works with the HR 3 days a week. It's complicated but WW now goes down to the Regional Office 3 days and 2 days travels to stores. I have ample folks to expose the affair to but I don't want to ruin WW's career.

Funny as I type I think I know the response's I'll get. Anonymous letter! WW and OM can easily deny it to anyone and that'll be the end. I wonder if I should do a face to face with OM's Manager and hope for OM's sake he isn't at work when I do.

Any ideas?