Why are there so many couples going through divorce right now? Why are there so many BS's and WS's? Why is it that we learn how "Married" folks should act way after we say our "I do's"?

I have an idea... and it's truly My Opinion only.

I have a nephew whose in his mid-20's and is engaged to be married next year. His fiance is also in her mid-20's. Both are college educated and pretty smart people. I look at them and I'm almost reminded of myself at a much earlier age. They are so "in-love" with each other. They vacation together, shop together, "live together" and basically seem like a happy couple. She also has her friends with whom she gets together with every so often and he has his friends as well. I think about them in 10, 20 years and wonder which 50% of the statistics they would fall into. What makes a marriage have sustaining power?

My nephews fiance is a very well put together young lady. She's very attractive and articulate. She is also planning the wedding of the century. There is not one detail that is being left to chance. Everything from the smallest detail, on up to the actual vows are being planned for "HER" day to be the most perfect of days. This wedding will have been 2 yrs in the making by the time the actual day arrives.

My nephew is probably one of the best young men i know. And i'm not saying this because I'm biased (honestly). He is tall, dark and extremely handsome (he is an easy ringer for the actor Tyrese-if any of you are familiar with him). He graduated from high school with honors, graduated from college on the deans list. Landed a job in his chosen field. And has never given any one a moment to worry about him. He is laid back, generous and extremely thoughtful.

A couple of months ago, they happy couple were over at our house and I asked how the "Wedding" plans were coming along. Without hestitation, the bride-to-be, launched ino her entire wedding details. Going over everything that had been planned up until that point. Her eyes lit up and she became excited with every detail she went over. She wants everythhing to be perfect for that day... She's made preparation for everything, including the weather (should it rain). She wanted nothing left to chance.

I listened intently to her as she went into each detail, knodding and uh huh'n when appropriate. Even at some points offering up little suggestions. When she finally finished with everything, I asked her a simple question. "How much planning have you put into the "Marriage" thusfar?". She seriously didn't know what I meant. So I rephrased the question. "Have you guys talked to someone about pre-marrital" counseling?". Oh.. Yeah, she said, I spoke to some in XXX state and they said we could do a class for $600". I asked if she and my nephew had a church home, she said no and that they only visited a few churches, but didn't join one as of yet, but that it was on her "TO-DO" list.

My thought is that people pour sooooo much time and attention into planning the "WEDDING", and the "MARRIAGE" itself is a mere afterthought. I made a simply suggestion to my nephews fiance that while the wedding day itself is definitely something that should be given as much attention as one could afford, but however, the marriage deserves it more. She really didn't want to hear what I was saying, but said she would look more into the marriage counseling things as time went on.

Anyone else think that people plan the wedding, with little thought to the marriage?

I would have to agree that women put alot more importance on the wedding that I think is healthy. But it is supposed to be the only time this happens and it is a symbol of union forever so I can see why such a big deal is made of the wedding.
I know when I got married my wife wanted a bigger wedding then we could afford, and look what happened to us. Not to say that has anything to do with our problems, but wedding are a rite of passage to woman it seems.

I don't think your source for the divorce rate is accurate. I read that the divorce rate is closer to 30% in the United States, not 50%. There was a year where there was a ratio of divorces was 50% of new marriages, but that is not a 50% divorce rate because the totals of dvs one year cannot be compared to marriages that same year. So do not fret too much, if memory serves there is a closer to 70% chance your nephew will remain married.

But I think you brought up very valid points to them that they need to address before worrying about a one day wedding.

Feelin,

I think you should gift the couple with matching copies of His Needs Her Needs and suggest that they read them. As a male, I will say that I stand in aw of the WEDDING PLANNING and the focus on it.

It is indeed a spectacle, but as you describe it and accurately I must admit, it makes the issue of who is standing next to her during this seem almost irrelevant. Doesn't it?

There is some good news in the stats though. Actually first marriages don't fail at 50%. The latest number I heard was somewhere between 35-40%. Please note that second marriage (of which there are more than ever) fail at rates approaching 70% and third marriages higher. Thus you get the 50% of ALL marriages fail.

Now I know this news just warms you heart as it does mine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I have three children none of which are married yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> But, I think your observation about the preparation is really really true, especially since kids do NOT get as much instruction on marriage as in times past.

I am speculating here, but I think more time was spent talking to girls about marriage and boys about marriage 50, 100, more years ago, because marriage was a matter of pure survival. There was no splitting the "estate" no one had one. There was only splitting wood. There was no "alimony" because no one really had money, they simply bartered their skills for those of others.

Today, women don't need to get married to have children, it is accepted. Men don't need to get married to have sex, it is accepted. Hence it seems to me that getting married is viewes by many as "advanced" going steady.

I will say that I since in the articles I read that there is coming an increased awareness of how important marriage is to children. How important it is to the health of people. And that there really is no such things as "we left each other as friends", someone always gets very very hurt and scared.

I agree your concern about what appears to be a misplaced emphasis is very correct. I married in my 30's and my W and I had agreed on just about every aspect of marriage: work, children, houses, religion, etc. Before I asked her to marry. It was a very nice wedding, and I will say I stayed out of it as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I mastered the ever faithful response: Yes, Dear! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It worked well.

I think you post will lead to some very interesting responses, but I suspect most will agree with you as you are after all on a marriage building site. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

Ok.. after doing some digging, i've found the 50% statistic is a little skewed... according to one source it says about 20-30% of all marriages.. and interesting enough, they say that more christain (including born again christians) get divorced than non-christians...

Well, I might have been wrong on that statistic, but here's one that i know is 100% correct.

100% divorces started in marriage :-)

FG,

Don't fret about the stats, no matter what they are, your point is well taken and surely worth consideration. The real problem with statistics is that when they are used in a the newspaper and such, the basis for the statistics are never given, nor is the means by which the data was collected.

Usually, it is collect in such a manner as to support the collectors theory or hypothesis.

But, you point and observation do merit serious consideration. I think about it with my kids.

God Bless,

JL

I don't know. Not all marriages are destined for trouble, infidelity or divorce. Although the statistics are alarming, I know far more couples that DO have stable, healthy marriages that not.

People change...that's obvious.... your nephew has just as much a chance at a lifetime being happily married to his new bride-to be as he does with the M ending in divorce and becoming a statistic.

I'm not sure Pre-Marriage counseling or picking a church home guarantees the M success. I'm quite surprised myself to see how many pastors, ministers and clergymen enter into A. I only know THAT from these boards.

Just like everything else ...pray for them...wish them a lifetime of happiness...and leave it in God's hands.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

"In America, divorce used to be difficult to obtain and, usually, impossible without good reason: adultery, abandonment, abuse, alcoholism. In 1880, according to the historian Robert L. Griswold, one marriage in 21-fewer than 5 percent-ended in divorce. Over time, there have been peaks and valleys in the divorce rate, such as the period immediately following World War II, when returning soldiers found things rather different from how they had left them, or were themselves tremendously changed by war. "But beginning in the mid-1960s," writes Griswold, the divorce rate "again began to rise dramatically, fueled by ever-higher marital expectations, a vast expansion of wives moving into the work force, the rebirth of feminism, and the adoption of 'no fault' divorce (that is, divorce granted without the need to establish wrongdoing by either party) in almost every state." Griswold continues, "The last factor, although hailed as a progressive step that would end the fraud, collusion, and acrimony that accompanied the adversarial system of divorce, has had disastrous consequences for women and children.'"

[Powell, D. (2003) Divorce-on-Demand: Forget about Gay Marriage- What About the State of Regular Marriage? National Review, v55 i20. Retrieved June 9, 2004 from Expanded Academic ASAP.]

"Marriages are most susceptible to divorce in the early years of marriage. After 5 years, approximately10 % of marriages are expected to end in divorce - another 10 % (or 20 % cumulatively) are divorced by about the tenth year after marriage. However, the 30% level is not reached until about the 18th year after marriage while the 40% level is only approached by the 50th year after marriage."

Rose M. Kreider and Jason M. Fields, "Number, Timing, and Duration of
Marriages and Divorces: 1996", U.S. Census Bureau Current Population Reports, February 2002, p. 18.

"In 1994, 4.6 of every 1,000 Americans divorced. ... Currently, divorce laws in almost every state give greater legal rights to spouses who want to end the marriage than to spouses who want to try to work out their marital problems. According to FRC's 1995 Family Issues Survey, 55 percent of the American public want to see these laws modified to offer greater protection to spouses interested in saving the marriage. "

Quoted from the Family Research Council's State-by-state divorce rates 1994

FG,

I really do agree with you that Wedding's are such a monumental occasion for women and it's grandeur is perpetuated all over the place from numerous magazines(i.e. Brides) to the media,even from the time we are little girls(fairytales).Have you ever actually picked up a Bride's magazine? It's like 2 inches thick! Chock full of ad's reviewing everything: rings,dresses,china,invitations,honeymoon spots,cars,lingerie,you name it.

Also those ridiculous shows like The Bachelor and such really do a disservice to marriage itself.People enter into relationships frivilously and I think when the masses read about someone like Jennifer Lopez,who I think is the poster child for how NOT to enter into a relationship,some/many think well I can do it too or that it is the norm.

I have said before that in order to help stem the tide of Infidelity,we have to start teaching/educating our children exactly what it means to be married instead of this false sense of romance and security.Like Frank Pittman says,"Marriage isn't supposed to make you happy,it's supposed to make you married".

We,as couples,expect too much out of our spouses and not enough of ourselves.We want to be MADE happy instead of creating that within.We are taught to want and need it all at the expense of anything and anyone who gets in our way.We are taught that if we are not happy 100% of the time then there is something wrong and we need to go and get whatever it is that makes us happy right now.We deserve to be happy all the time,didn't you know that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Nothing is worth working for anymore.It should all come to us on a big silver platter.

I know now that both my daughters are going to get some books and a listing of this website from Dr.Harley before they get married.Just to start.

O

I have come to believe that "no fault divorce" has been a cultural train-wreck.

Let's all write our congresspersons!

Change this law.

Pep

Jennifer Lopez,who I think is the poster child for how NOT to enter into a relationship,

Let's not forget good old Mickey Rooney (8)
Liz Taylor (8 or 9) Billy Bob Thornton (4 or 5)Homewrecker Julia Roberts (2 ... but much engaged)

Pep (1)

Yep.

-Lisa Marie Presley(3)
-Nicholas Cage(just married his third)
-Zsa Zsa Gabor(I lost count past 8)lol
-Lana Turner(6-7?)
-Joan Collins and Liza Minelli and so on.

I think what is just as damaging as these people who are married one day and then 3 months later are divorced? Hello? People hop right from one marriage into the next relationship without any time to heal from the last.Talk about rebound. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> And Jennifer....ugh.She barely gets out of her relationship with fiance Ben Affleck and dives right into marriage with Marc Anthony whose ink on the divorce papers was hardly even dried yet.And,they are already in trouble.Serves her right.She needs to back off and take a break and just be herself a while.

Folks,

Can you say "Pre-Nup" ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The claim is that Liz Taylor married every man she slept with. I guess that is honorable. I guess it means when she found another man she wanted to sleep with she divorced the current H. Although I think she sort of messed up when filming Cleopatra,if memory serves me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

JL

Pep, Oct:

Those people aren't "spouses", they're "hobbyists." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Don't forget squeaky li'l Britney Spears. I'm "blessed" that my kids aren't that s2pid or thoughtless.

I think the no-fault DV idea is more financially- than compassion-driven. Well, obviously it is.

You don't need 2 be religious 2 be pro-marriage, either.

-ol' 2long

<small>[ August 26, 2004, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

2ble

<small>[ August 26, 2004, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

I'm not sure about doing away with the no-fault divorce.. and i know that just because u have alittle trainig or education on what "married" is supposed to mean won't make your marriage 100% because as someone said.. people change all the time.

I think it would be kind of the same thing as a college education. I know people that spend years in years in college obtaining a certain amount of education in a certain field, only to do something entirely different or nothing at all with the education. But I also know that most sucessful people have some type of college education... Does it make them smarter than a non college educated person? Not necessarily.... hopefully better prepared... but not necesarily smarter.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FeelinGuilty:
<strong> I'm not sure about doing away with the no-fault divorce.. and i know that just because u have alittle trainig or education on what "married" is supposed to mean won't make your marriage 100% because as someone said.. people change all the time.

I think it would be kind of the same thing as a college education. I know people that spend years in years in college obtaining a certain amount of education in a certain field, only to do something entirely different or nothing at all with the education. But I also know that most sucessful people have some type of college education... Does it make them smarter than a non college educated person? Not necessarily.... hopefully better prepared... but not necesarily smarter. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could not agree more. I think in the past people used to get “marriage education” by watching the marriages around them – parent’s, family etc.

Today most of the people I know grew up watching incredibly dysfuctional marriages. NONE of my friends (and I’m in my 30’s) has a good example of a solid quality marriage in their lives.

So IMO the only way to counteract this cycle is education. That’s part of the reason I’m here. I need to learn, more than what I’ve been taught about marriage. I want to be better prepared than my parents were.

Have to add...

This is the main reason I haven't pursued my "dream career". I love weddings and can honestly and humbly say that I have a talent for planning and executing wonderful events. I've planned and assisted in numerous weddings for friends and family. Everyone says that this is the business I should be in.

But I can't. Because I can't seperate the event from the meaning. And I know, in this day and age, with so many people marrying for the wrong reasons to the wrong persons that I would be quickly out of business. You can't hold people to your morals and standards when you're in business - not if you expect to stay in business.

This way - planning the occasional event or wedding for close friends and family - I get to be selective about the couples I work with. I am not composed enough to hold my tounge when the bride is caught sleeping with the best man etc.

I have had a love affair with weddings since I was a child. I love everything about them - and I love everything about planning them. But my enjoyment would be severely tarnished if I had to do it for a couple I didn't have confidence in. And unfortunately these days it can be readily apparent which couple is more likely to make it or make it to divorce.