She feels so bad about the A, thinks of herself as such a bad person and what she has done to me, that she can't make love with me right now. Please give it time...

WHAT THE HECK?!?!

She is the one that had the A!! WHAT ABOUT MY ENs?(I whined)

OM lived (or lives, maybe he is still alive...hope not) in another city and would fly in for a day every month or so. She would meet him at some Best Western by the airport while I was at work and lay with him from maybe 9:00 or 10:00 am till, say 4:00 or 5:00? Then rush home before me. (I refer to these as their SEX HOLIDAYS)

Anyway, Dday was memorial, 05/31/2004 (Memorial day to our "out of USA" friends). NC was established the same day, W is VERY remorseful, and says she never thinks about it or OM anymore.
Totally wants to move on...and not discuss. (Plus her mother is dying of cancer..alot of stress and sadness)

Its now been 3 1/2 months and there has been MINIMAL sex (3 quick times) One of them Dday plus 1.

Everything is going smooth now. Affection, endearments, happiness, etc. But no making love. It is totally up to her to let me know when she is ready. This was established in MC and also....when I make a move and am rebuffed, I start sobbing uncontrolably...just kidding.

$h1t, I tear up when she says "I love you"!

I think, yeah right, sure you do. But I think she does,... GOD I HOPE SHE DOES!!!

THIS INFIDELITY CRAP IS VERY CONFUSING!!!

She is also on LEXPRO A/D. Lack of libido there?

So my question, to the female wanderers is:

Did you or do you feel this way? You feel so bad about what you did, and you feel so bad about yourself, that you cannot bring yourself to make love to your husband????

Or do/did you urgently want to fill you BS's love bank with deposits of SF.

Please respond with vigor!! This may tell me where my W's head is at present.

Thanks to all for your time and attention to this.

k

krusht - Quit whining - 3 times is better than I have been doing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But seriously, it could be the lexapro. Or it could be that she is disgusted with her behavior, and avoids sex.

What does she say when you ask her about it?

Believer,

She says "She feels so bad about the A, thinks of herself as such a bad person and what she has done to me, that she can't make love with me right now. Please give it time..."

So I should discuss this further with her?..and when does this become "begging"? Don't get me wrong...I can beg with the best of them.

Sorry, its late and I am fading fast. W is up in LA with her MOM. I go up the weekend to be close. Its a sad, $h1tty thing with her Mom.

G'night Believer, and thanks.

k

SSRIs have a well knows side effect of reduced libido. In my own case cipramil rendered 'artificial' all physical sensations, so sex was a no-no.

Perhaps thats a part of your WS challenge ?

But, forgive me for a small 2x4, and if I may say as a "non old head", it sounds like you are almost pestering or demanding SF as a RIGHT from your WS. Even without the supercharged atmosphere of a recovery from an A, a very ill MIL and A-Ds , sex , as I see it, is the ultimate POJA.

I'd say your WS had a lot on her plate right now without you 'whining about your SF ENs being met' (your words).

If she hadn't had an A would you be pestering her for SF with her on A-Ds and her mum so ill ?

It may seem to your WS that you are demanding that she give back to you what she gave to him as some kind of reckoning.

Only you know your relationship, but when MY mom was dying, I didn't feel a whole lot like sex either, and I didn't have the extra stress your WW has.

Incidentally my FWW's M is also dying of cancer. Crap huh ?

All blessings Krusht mate.

Bob,

You are sooo becoming an "OLD HEAD" mate. And I do appreciate your 2x4s concerning my whining.

I did lay out all the reasons, didn't I, and still did my whining.

Must let you know that I HAVE NOT been pestering!
Hoping and praying, yes, but not pestering. Letting her make the move.

Just whining here on the board.

Bob, must let you know how happy I am for the progress with the M and your W.

Karate still seems to be the devil.

Gnight, and thanks mucho for the post.

k

Krusht, I feel bad about my nerf 2x4 after your kind words ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> * blush * S'true we're sailing a bit f clear water for a while. I haven't put away the storm stuff yet though...

I understand. I vent all kinds o' poop on here that I would never ever say in life. I mistook your worlds for you begging WW like Bart & Lisa begged Homer to take them to duff world ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Tell U what, if you support her thru this mess in her life , you'll have her heart for ever IMO. No OM would or could help carry her trouble. Thats why we husbands are better than OMs. They only commit for BETTER, we're there for LIFE. God smiles when we do this stuff, I am sure of it.

Blessings upon all of you.
Hard times in your house too, friend.

Dear Krusht,

I dunno what your W's EN are... but I do know that almost any human being responds to tender care. I'd rub her back. Or massage her feet, or her head. Make it clear that you're not "coming on to her", that you are simply doing it to comfort her.

It might make her more comfortable around you physically.

If you think you're no good at massage... then take up a course somewhere... preferably with your W.

An excellent way to practice the right sort of pressure needed for massage (not too much & too little, that is) is your own hand. Try massaging that in different ways so you'll know what your "patient" means when they say "a little harder" or "not so hard" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> !!

<small>[ September 17, 2004, 03:49 AM: Message edited by: brownhair ]</small>

brownhair, another vote for that. With my wife and I being pretty sporty over th years we have always massaged each others aching bits, but not so much these past few years....hmmm

Now it has become appropriate to in recovery I have begun this again. Massaging feet, aching muscles and shoulders carefully avoiding "naughty" areas.

Its beautifully intimate without being overtly sexual and can be lovely for giver and receiver.
* ahem * although it has on occasion led to rip-roaring SF * ahem *

Krusht,,,

I would have to speculate here but all of your wifes burdens are definately a factor.

As for my wife, the roles were reversed,, she attempted SF all the time,, I was the withdrawing partner. Even counselor said wife was trying to make it up to me by the constant pressure of SF.

Granted she did not have all of the extra stress your wife is experiencing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by krusht:
<strong> She feels so bad about the A, thinks of herself as such a bad person and what she has done to me, that she can't make love with me right now. Please give it time...

WHAT THE HECK?!?!

k </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As a FWW, I would guess that there are a variety of things going on. Lexapro can DEFINITELY cause a lack of libido. Wellbutrin (I believe) has been shown to have less side effect on a person's sexual drive. If things don't improve in time that may be something she could consider trying. Having her mother dying is perhaps one of the ultimate stressors, and combined with her guilt and remorse over the A- well I can easily see that as causing a lack of desire.

One other thought- after dday, I felt so DIRTY- so disgusted with myself that the entire idea of sex with ANYONE became repugnant. I'm not sure how to better explain that. And it may not be what your wife is going through at all- but I thought I'd throw it out there. The good news is that I did get over it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hang in there. You are going through so much...my prayers are with you.

Obviously, attentiveness on both your parts is in order.

As bob said, this is a most inopportune time for her in general, with her mom and the ADs. You may have to temper your demands.

My WW went through all of that guilt/remorse too, and was not interested in rebuilding intimacy with me. However, after a year or so, I started to wonder if she was really doing anything to overcome that. Ours was a pathetic love life pre-A, so unfortunately we really didn't have anything to "go back to". She was very low drive for years, but quite lusty with OM in her A. I'd hoped that we might've been able to use the A to launch a new intimate relationship.

The key is to communicate. You have to tell her that this is important to, but that she is too, and you have to "bridge" to her point of view. Show empathy for her, support.

But - BUT! This is a two way street. At some point she is going to have to take control, and make an effort to overcome these factors. This is obviously something in which she can make up to you for the A. My WW made the mistake of thinking that her desire for SF with me would somehow magically appear, and did not need any active, conscious input from her. She also failed to acknowledge how much it hurt me, not only the A, but the fact that she simply did not see rebuilding as worthwhile.

Also, she'd shut down whenever I did try to bring it up. I tried all sorts of ways and approaches, and in principle she was very committed to openness, honesty, and sharing of needs, but when the rubber hit the road, she'd bail. So, I would suggest strongly that you bring this up, patiently, persistently, and make a genuine effort to bridge to her.

K, I suggest you read, Men are From Mars (duh) and Woman are from Venus (the normal planet) in the Bedroom.

I sure hope you are not begging and pleading, and whining to your W. Nothing attractive about that.

If EN are being met then SF for you will be much easier. When my love bank is full, I desire my H. It just works that way with woman.

Understand how LEXPRO does affect the libido. Don't just hear it, but understand that this is a real factor.

Your W has a handful right now. We are not like men. When men are stressed they want SF as a relief, woman want to relieve their stress, and then have SF.

When I am stressed it is very hard for me to engage in SF, too much on my mind, and for woman we need full attention on the task at hand when it is SF. You men are distracted by anything remotely shiny, so it is easy for you, to drop everything and go at it.

TLC, space and time. I'm guessing she just is not articulating her situation very well. It could be the guilt, but I'm sure there is more to it than that.

I am a FWW, there is lots of guilt, take your breathe away and suffocate you guilt. Maybe she still cares for OM, and feels she doesn't want to be intimate because of that, many factors come to play with a woman and SF.

You are a man you want to fix it. Stop trying so hard to fix it, be patient. You don't fix a sexual problem, by having sex. It took my H 10 years to figure that out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

KY

KYELLOW4,

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin about!! Good post!

I listened to Men from Mars, Woman from Venus and I understand the diff. (books on tape, I drive an hour each way to work)

Begging and pleading yes, but NO whining...JUST KIDDING!! I have been the perfect gentleman, no complaining, whining or begging.

I...ummm..oh!....Sorry, was distracted by something shiny over there! LOL

And I love the "you don't fix a sexual problem by having sex"!! Very sobering and to the point.

Why haven't I heard that one before?

Thank you for the frank and candid response.

I have vented and whined my fair share and do feel much better.

EDITED to;
KY, I just reread your post and saw the Men from Mars/Women from Venus...IN THE BEDROOM!! I have not heard/read that yet..will buy it today. Thanks again.

k

<small>[ September 17, 2004, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: krusht ]</small>

FWW here. Yes the Lexapro and the situation with her mom are making things worse. But there are so many feelings of guilt and self loathing that a truly sorry WS goes through after d-day. If you add to that the fact that sometimes the BS is more attentive than they have ever been because they have just came very close to losing the person they love, it just gets all mixed up and confusing. She is still trying to find her way through the fog. Be patient, but don't quit being attentive. My H literally pulled me throught he fog because he was constantly touching me. Just a hand or a kiss etc. It eventually brought me through and physically our R is better than ever. It only took a month for me, but my PA was only one day (6 months of EA first). That could be the difference. The good thing is that once she gets throught he fog, she will probably start to focus all her recovery efforts on you. That's where I am now.

Good luck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why haven't I heard that one before?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm guessing this has been said many times in your presence, but there might have been a drop of rain sparkling in the sun, or maybe some shiny keys in somebody's hand, a coin on the ground, or maybe an adolescent with braces smiling from afar, and the shiny objects are much louder than the human voice.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
KY

I am really new here but looks like you are getting some really good advice. It sounds like she is going through a lot. That feels funny your the BS and she is "going through a lot." Life is never fair.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You don't fix a sexual problem, by having sex. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Remember this one because it is very very true. WW and I learned this one the hard way. My W encouraged me to SF with her even though this problem existed and now resents me for it all. Not blaming it all on her but our combined problems (mainly communication)let it get out of control. Should have stopped and got help 3+years ago. What I am suggesting is that communication is golden. If she wasn't communicating you could have the added problem of lurking resentment and the development of a sexual aversion. This problem has almost totally destroyed my M. You Do Not want her to develop an aversion to SF with you.

Good Luck

C.

I am a FWW. Your wife and I are going through the same thing. I am also taking Lexapro and without consulting my MD tried to stop taking it- did see difference in my sex drive but with that said I also seen a huge difference in my depression- needless to say I am taking the Lexapro again..just for awhile...
Anyway, there is sooo MUCH anger, pain, sadness, remorse and just feeling like S**t for whatI have done. I know that the times we have been together I usually cry after- not for the OM but beccause I realize what I have done- I will never be able to take back what I have done and have to live with that nasty feeling the rest of my life. I am crying now and have this nauseated feeling just thinking of the lies, lies, lies and what I have also caused OMW and family.
I try not to pull away from my husband when he wants to because i know this is a need for him and I want to make him happy but it is emotionally hard at times.....
22

Forgiven22,

Thanks so much for your response. Your byline said Dday was Dec 03...is it getting better and less stressful? Is your H totally into reconciliation?

You must be very kind and loving to feel such empathy and pain for those around you. Hope your H can see past the A and realize what a gem he has.

k

Yes and No. Our recovery has had setbacks for several reasons. One reaseon was NC not being established and OMW just finding out recently. My H has had a difficult time with me as he puts it "not letting go" of my guilt. I have cried alot and been depressed- a mix of withdraw and hating myself for what I have done. I guess I don't feel worthy of his love after what I have done and when he shows affection I cry and pull away. He says he has forgiven me and I truly feel he has but I can't imagine the hurt I have caused.
It has been a tough road and there are days when I wonder if we will make it- feelings creep in, memories, thoughts and seem to "take over" and ruin the day. It has been 9 months since I told him the whole story and we are making it but we have had setbacks. We are in MC and I in IC. I pray each month gets better and soon I will look back with years behind us and still be with my husband.
By the way, thanks for the compliment- I don't feel like a jewel!
22

Harrumph.

Remember the whole reclaiming issues? Some times, you do overcome sex problems by having sex. Somethings I believe the fws would be content to never engage upon. I personally feel anyone submitting their spouse to this sort of thing is way out of line. I understand if both agree to abstain for a time, but, if one of the members is ready, then an agreement has to be reached.

As much as the fws may loathe the idea, if the bs is ready to engage, guess what, it's time to pony up. Putting the bs in the spot of completely humilaited by it all, and then strip away sf to boot...it's asking for a divorice or a revenge affair. It just provides too easy of an opening for Satan. Protect the marriage in all fashions, including sex.