When I found out about my wifes PA, it was the cell records that exposed it to me.
Well this morning I was lokking at cell records and the same routine is there except this time with a OM from her past.
She has called this OM 11 times in a three week period and one of the calls was 71 mins long. This is exactly a carbon copy of how I discovered her first affair. I think I really need some advice on how I should approach her on this.
I want to control my anger but I am getting very upset and fearing the worse. I want to request off work early so I can go approache her about this!

Oh no, I thought you were doing so well. But it could be something innocent. I can't believe that she would be dumb enough to use cell phone again, especially since that is how you caught her before.

Eric N.,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(from Jelly thread) Just looked at cell phone records,,, I do that when they come in as a reassurance measure.

There is a # on there I recognize its a guy who works for her uncle,,, its on there 11 times and one of the calls is 71 mins at 8:00 am this is not good.
She has had a past sexual relationship with this man before I was in the picture.

I am not going to call her from work about this,,,,Damn this was the last thing I needed to see.
Ok I need to make plans for kids to go to sitter tonite,, this is not going to be pretty. I just cannot believe this. After all the crap we have been through,, what in the hell is she doing?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My first comment:
WHY is this not going to be pretty? Do you mean that this is going to be a big fight tonight? So what you are saying is right now you are PLANNING on having a big fight with the wife? You could be missing an opportunity to SHOW her that Eric N. is the best man on the block. More on this later.

My second comment:
Have you considered this possible outcome, or did your recent turn of good events rule out the possibility in your mind of this happening again? Have you expected the best, but planned for the worst? The BIGGEST point to this is WHERE is Eric N’s threshold? Where is your point of no return? Does your wife understand where this is? Mine does. If my wife develops a friendship with a male without my knowledge, or will not end one I feel inappropriate, it will be over between the two of us. If my wife speaks to her OM again, it will be over between the two of us. It is clear to her where MY threshold is. If she WANTED to end our marriage, she would know EXACTLY what to do. If YOUR threshold is not defined, it is a mushy, grey area and not a distinct line. The issue is too serious for it NOT to be a distinct line. What that carries with it is this – if your boundaries are not CRYSTAL CLEAR to her, you can’t really hold her responsible for coming close to them.

My advice on your current situation:
What do you KNOW at this point? You know 2 things.

1) There are frequent calls to a prior boyfriend, one of them 71 minutes long. AND ONLY THAT. You do not know what was discussed. Maybe the old boyfriend is married, but wanted to see if your wife is open to a fling. So he calls. Then she says, sorry, Eric and I are now committed to each other. He says wish me and my wife were like that, then she witnesses to him for an hour. She may not think it was important for you to know this.

2) The odds of the two of you getting into a fight are very high, because of how this piece of information makes you feel (justifiably so).

If your goal is a happy marriage, there is only one course of action here. Get more information and avoid the fight.

I would take the kids to a movie tonight. Give her some space. But I would also leave her a copy of the bill and a card or note or letter. Explain to her how this makes you feel. The issue is mistrust, so that is a negative issue. Keep it ALL ON YOU even though you may not feel that way.

I would write something like:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear wife,

I saw this the other day and I am a little too weak to handle this right now. I feel very scared and threatened by it. We have made great strides lately and I love you too much to jeopardize it for a fight over what is probably nothing. I did not want to surprise you with all this, because it would be wrong of me. I would like to talk to you about this, but because I am so afraid of what it means it will be hard for me. Please try to understand, I know this time has been difficult for you. How about letting me know when you would be comfortable talking about it?

Eric N.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See? All the negative statements are YOU. All the positive ones are about the TWO OF YOU. Does this give her time to cook up a story? Yes. But you will be able to tell. You could also ask her if YOU could call him. If she says “I was just helping him with an issue,” YOU could call him and ask if there is anything else YOUR FAMILY can do to help him out. This would let him know YOU are aware of it and if there is something there, it may die off. Tell her you don’t mind her giving this guy advice, but it would be more appropriate if the two of you were sitting next to each other while she was on the phone. What could be so private between her and another male that she shouldn’t be able to share it with you? If it is that private, she should not be doing it. Explain this to her. The important thing is that if you AMBUSH her with this information, it will put her on the defensive and that will not support your end goal – a stronger marriage.

BUT – she does owe you an explanation if you feel it is required. It MAY have to come to a fight. The onus is on you to “Seek peace and pursue it.” PSA 34:14. You need to find out how long she wants to wait to talk about it, give her the time, but hold her to the deadline. My guess is that she will want to talk about it right when you get back from the movie. It will give her time for her actions to sink in.

In the movie, don’t you think about her actions or possible explanations, you work out where your threshold is. Suppose this is truly an honest mistake. It does not necessarily make it right for you. Where are your boundaries? What are Eric N’s show stoppers? Are you SURE you know what they are? Save THAT conversation for a later time, after this blows over.

I will pray for you,

NCWalker

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But it could be something innocent </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Something innocent yes, but inappropriate for where you are in R.

Think first Eric, you need honesty from her, you need truth, not lies, so approach her in fashion that will best get you an honest response.

It doesn't look good, but yet, why would she use a form of communication that she is aware is so easily traceable to form another A????

She needs to fix what is wrong with herself so this behavior doesn't cont. Low self esteem, people pleasing, self worth issues, what ever it may be.

She needs to communicate honestly to you what she needs from you. So she is not seeking it else where from some other man.

Are you in MC??? Has she had IC??

Time for a POJA, on opposite sex friendships.

Good luck Eric.

KY

NCW,,,
You ask about boundaries and thresholds,,,
During our recovery we have talked about everything. Especially how I now felt about conversations with other men, much less a past lover,,, and that was a wishful scenario on him calling her for a fling or to see how she was doing,, I am afraid to say all of these calls are outgoing to him,, just like the last time,, yes even the 71 min call,,,,, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> she called him.

Yes he is married his wife is a very jeolous person I have talked to this guy,, we used to ride dirt bikes together,,, he has worked for my uncle in law for 15 yrs. NCW this just is not good,,,,,lets look at the facts,,, she called him at 8:00am on his cell phone she talked to him for 71 minutes not to mention an additional 10 outgoing calls to him. PLEASE tell me what possible logic there is to her actions. I am now watching the clock for quitting time,, I am tempted to call him first. I think the best case scenario is she was having multiple affairs and did not confess this one,, but if she is trying to end it then why the repeatitive phone calls.
Man that feeling in my gut,,, the butterflies turning my stomach.... I am trying to think of what her response will be. I just cannot see her telling me anything else except the same thing she told me about the last OM,,,,HE IS JUST A FRIEND HE IS NICE TO TALK TO!!!!!!!!!!1111111 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I know that is what I am going to get. Yes this shocked the hell outta me....you know the crap I put her through after I found out about her affair,,,, you know the effort she has made to keep me by her side,,, all of this was my only assurance that I was not committed to a philandering wife. This is a bullet through my heart. I am fighting back tears... I cant go through this crap again,,, it is going to be hard to folow your advice though deep down I know it is wise,,, but the rage is building and I dont know how I will keep myself from unleashing it on her. I am fighting the urge to take off early and get a few beers in me,,,Man I am lost,,,, what in the hell have I got in to.
I would love to think there is some explanation but the facts make this cold and hard.

KY,,,, I think from your words you also know this is not good,,, I feel you are preparing me for the worst but also trying to make sure I dont do something stupid... for that I thank you..

Let me ask this,,, if I get honesty say she confesses another affair...which I think she will not because I have assured her repeatedly I cannot suffer another affair. She has said I will never have to,,, I know whatever excuse she gives me I will not believe,,, I have allready accepted she has been screwing him,,,, I just dont think I can handle it.... is my wife a philanderer,, is she incapable of being faithful??????????????????????????????

I also have these images of a bunch of MBers thinking here is a guy who was trying to give me advice on recovery when he himself hasnt dealt with his own cheating wife!!!!!!!!!!

Eric -

No beer, please. You know that will not help. This whole thing does not make any sense. She has been committed to restoring the marriage. She knows that the phone is how you caught her before.

So calling this man is just crazy. If she wanted to restart an affair, she could have just gotten a prepaid phone card, and you would never have found out.

You need to calm down and think about this. She could be trying to sabotage your recovery because she feels guilty. Or there could be some mental health issues. It just doesn't add up.

Believer,,
Your right it just doesnt add up,,, why would she,,we have spent all of our time together since DDay,,,, I mean I really cannot find a gap in our time together where she could be seeing him,, unless its at her buisness,, she is there alone alot during the day. Have they had a past affair and still reflect over the phone about it,,,, I mean I am spinning out,,,,I know I shouldnt drink,,,It will only provoke me to act out of anger,,,,, I will confront this sober,,, its just a temptation.

Eric -

I have watched you change over the time you have been here. You are helping others and giving great advice. You should be proud.

Now what are we gonna do about this wife of yours? You will have to be the strong one, the leader in this. Her pattern is just so different than the usual WS. When they get caught, and are continuing betrayal, they get sneakier, and get better at covering their tracks. That is why I don't think this is what it is.

You need to settle WAAAAAYY down, and have a calm, loving discussion of this.

Wife just called,,,,,,,

asked if I was eating lunch with her today,,, we have been meeting for lunch everyday since her affair. She has my youngest son with her the 3 yr old. I know I have to keep cool,, if I decline she will know something is not right. I definately do not want to discuss this over lunch.

Believer,,, I know this is not textbook for a FWW but please if you can give me some reason for these cell calls,,,, I am so mad,,, I want to send a copy of this bill to his wife,,,, she has allways been insecure about him. If he has in fact been screwing my wife then I will do just that and let her deal with him.

I am talking to a close buddy here at work,,, he is also saying its not good but do not panic.

How do I respond when she tell me it was just talk they are friends!!!! I think that is when I am going to blow up?

Eric -

Step up to the plate and calm down. You are making yourself crazy. That is normal for a BS so early in recovery.

It cannot be an affair. It has to be something else. I would discuss it at lunch. You can't stay in such pain.

It should go like this:

E: Hi 3 yr old. How ya doing? (talk to child)

FWW: How are things going?

E: Not too well, hon.

FWW: What is wrong?

E: I saw the phone bill, and am wondering what this means for our relationship?

FWW: Oh, I just called him to see how he is doing. We are just friends. I told him how well my marriage is doing.

E: Hon, that is not going to work for me. I know I am probably extra sensitive right now, but we need to come to an agreement on this.

FWW: But we are just friends!

E: I believe you, but this is not going to work for me.

FWW: Blah, blah, blah.

E: You are right, but this doesn't work for me.

And on and on and on.

Eric,

Sorry I have been gone. Had things come up at work.

Look.

You have to show control. That is what it means to be a MAN. Of COURSE don't be walked on.

"Grid off" the scenario.

1) You can talk to her about this with ANGER in control.
2) You can talk to her about this with ERIC in control.

A) This is NOT an affair.
B) This IS an affair.

Make a 2 x 2 grid with 1 and 2 on top, and A and B on the side.

You can only CHOOSE between 1 and 2. You can only REACT to A and B, got it?

So your boundary tells you that if it is B, the affair, then it is over. Fair enough. It will be over if you are 1-ANGRY or 2-ERIC.

Bad things happen on row B, so put an X in both those boxes.

What if it is A? If it's A (no affair) and you choose 1-ANGER, what does that do to your marriage? Could be bad. So A1 gets and X too. But if you choose 2-ERIC, all is good. That gets a star, the only possible good outcome.

--1|2
A|X|*
B|X|X

Should look like that. The choice is, there is no choice. You must choose ERIC in control, not ANGER in control. Choosing ERIC in control has only this as the worst case - there was an affair (B) and you SHOULD have been angry. But it will still be over. That choice only deals with HOW it ends, not THAT it ends.

NCW

I had lunch,,, believer I did not get your post till I got back,,,

I pretty much kept quite,,, ate a few bites but ofcorse my mind is shuffling now images of her with this guy.
She knows I am dwelling,, she asked Are you having flashbacks? I said yes she said is thereanything I can do,,,I said not this time,,,and that threw her for a loop,, she kept prying,, I said I do not wish to talk about it right now,,, she kept prying,,,, all I said was have you been totally honest with me,, she said yes,,, I said have you stuck to your commitment in regars to confiding in other men,,, she said yes,,, I said,,,,"LB" I strongly urge you to be honest with me,,, she said "I am". I ended the conversation by saying "I want you to think about the questions I just asked you and by the end of the day I want some honesty" She got a little defensive and said "Fine Eric but I have not lied to you" I pretty much went quiet.
I have got a major headache thinking about this,, just like I did before,,, the damn visions are working overtime in my head,, and also seeing her lie to my face at lunch has got me repulsed.
The only thing I keep saying is The old saying is true,,, about a beautiful wife... Look at pretty women,,, but if you want monogomy marry an unattractive one.

Maybe she just cant say no,,, when a man wants in her pants,,, hell I dont know,, I need some tylenol.

NCW,,,

I know your right,,, but it is so hard to keep cool,,,, what if she says its not an affair. I guess because she claimed the first was not an affair and it was,,, that now I know I will not accept anything except an affair.
I am just now really feeling the full lack of trust I still have for my wife. Damn I hate affairs,,,, as God as my witness I will do everything in my power to never be the OM.

Married women will become to me what kryptonite is to Superman.
I pretty much bet we are through,,, and I know this is going to hurt me for a long time,,,, but one positive I have learned is that I never want to be The OM, the WS, or The BS.

God bless all of the FWW,s who have re committed to their husbands and stayed true to their committment. Its one thing to break someones heart with a first offense but to lead them back into a false form of security and then drive the nail into the coughin,,,that is just cold and diaboliquely cruel!

Eric, I have a theory that I share with my parents (meaning daycare parents)

To get honest information out of your children, don't teach them how to lie. Don't set them up to fail you because you are smarter than them and have more knowledge.

EX. Mom knows Johnny took a cookie, the evidence is there, the chair by the jar, the crumbs leading to his room and on his face.

Mom -Johnny, did you take the cookies from the cookie jar?

J - NO (knowing he is going to get in trouble)

The way I do it with my children, I have an 8 year old who seriously has never lied to me, really and truly.

Me, DS I see you took a cookie, I would appreciate you asking me before hand in the future. We will be having dinner soon, I don't want you filling up on cookies. Now take care of the chair, clean up the crumbs and wipe your face.

S, okay Mama, I'm sorry, I will clean up the mess and ask next time for permission.

No reason to lie, it is all out there.

Don't set her up to fail you, you know she hasn't kept to her word. Don't give her the opportunity to lie to you, it just angers you, and makes her out to be a liar.

Present your case, show her respect, even in her wrong doings, you might get further this way.

{{{eric}}}

I'm pulling for you. I'm saying a prayer that this is all no big deal. I'm hoping you can figure this out and have a great weekend.

Jelly

Eric,

If I was next to you right now I'd give you a big thump.

Could have been worse. Seemed as if you were just baiting, and not angry.

OK. So she lied about talking to this guy. You still don't know anything because she has no idea what you are talking about.

(BTW, I went through this EXACT scenario with RAP and I unfortunately chose the ANGRY route over peace. It hurt MUCH more than it helped. And at the end of the day, I felt bad for being angry, so STOP IT. I'm not blowing sunshine up your butt, I'm serious about this.)

Leave her the bill tonight, then YOU LEAVE with the kids. That will make her feel safe that YOU are not doing anything inappropriate and keep you from drinking. A win-win.

Let her know that it is hard for you. THEN GET OUT OF THERE. Her first instinct when she sees the bill will be to throw up all the defenses and be ready to unload on you with threats, curses, the whole shmeer.

If you tell me she won't react that way, then you are a liar. OF COURSE the defenses are going to go up, because she will be scared of you, expecting you to explode. So what is served by staying around? NOTHING except scaring your kids. Tell me I'm wrong.

Take the kids to get pizza, or to a movie, or whatever. You get to calm down, she gets to see that you are really trying. She gets time for the "caught in the act adrenaline rush" to work out of her system.

BOTH of you will be calmer. PROGRESS can then be made. AND you will FINALLY get some information. Information that matters MUCH MORE than what actually happened.

If she has had time for her defenses to come down and she hits you with both guns when you get back, you will see where her heart is at. But if she is teary and repentent, you will also see where her heart is at. FINALLY you will have some information.

Got it? - NCW

Jelly,,
I have read NOT JUST FRIENDS I saw that exact analogy in that book. (the cookie example)

So I should have said I see your calling Anthony could you please tell me why you are calling him.

hey that actually felt good to say that,, Maybe when I come through the door I can still present it that way... and as for the reason,,, I have allready said "Please God tell me I am wrong" over and over.

I am an [censored] HOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111
maybe that is the true reason why my wife cheats.

NCW,,,,
Man to tell you the truth i AM SCARED!
I am scared to death of full confrontation on this.
I dont want to hear another confession,,, no matter how I get it.

I am to afraid to hear the truth.
Maybe an apology to her for lunch and just forget I ever looked at that phone log.

If I hear the crushing truth,, it is going to be to much I know it.

My whole life revolves around my family and it just does not work without her.

Sorry I am pretty emotional,, the tears just unleashed I really cannot talk about this anymore.

You may be an [censored]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But at least you know it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

First step getting to be where you want to be is knowing where you are. You need a start AND an end to plot a course.

And no. That's not why your wife is cheating.

Every day you decide - today I am going to take the hard road and better myself or I am going to take the easy road and coast. (You can't coast uphill long.) She has been picking the latter over the former. THAT's why she is cheating.

Nothing to do with you.

NCW

Eric,

First piece of wisdom from you today yet.

"Sorry I am pretty emotional,, the tears just unleashed I really cannot talk about this anymore."

It is OK to feel your feelings. Would you make an important decision drunk? How about go on a job interview drunk? No. Being drunk is really not being in control.

Right now, you are drunk. Let 'em flow. Heck, enjoy them if you want. Just don't make that important decision right now.

Where sense is wanting, everything is wanting.

You're young yet. So is she. You guys have the rest of your lives ahead of you. Hopefully together. But if not, you will still find happiness.

Hashing out this issue in your current state will NOT help in EITHER case.

Don't beat yourself up either, YOU STILL ARE LISTENING. When I was your age I would have been off the computer LONG ago and letting my wife have it over this.

Calm down. Face her IN CONTROL. Let us know what happens. We will help in the next steps, no matter what they are.

NCW