Board.....Even after WW C with Steve H and even after I C w/ Steve H my WW asked me if I would be mad if she went out with OM.

I was set up. We were talking on the cell after picking up DD from school. Very jovial. Asked about how my C went and told me a little about her C. I had just finished mine an hour ago and agreed to another two weeks of Plan Aing and then recontact Steve H.

Emotional bomb dropped. WW asked me that question. I told her that you are free and I'm just trying to digest what you told me last Saturday about calling it off. WW said "we're just going out as friends, I haven't decided yet and I'm trying to be honest with you". "I'm not taking him to the apartment, I'll be home tonight".

Bullsh**! I think she's using the current situation as a means to further her R with OM.

I'm twisted. I want so much to go meet with OM and inform him of certain things....like my foot!

My emotions are raging right now. Even after all the sound advice and my understanding of where I need to be - Plan A. I don't see this changing unless I knock her off the fence starting the minute she goes out.

I know I'm not in a typical situation but all of my gas just dropped out of my tank.....

Any advice.....LS

Why the HELL did you tell her she was free for fricks sake ?

The only reply should have been " What do YOU think is best for our M recovery ?".

Lost Sailor,

Plan A has nothing to do with what your WW requested. That is an outrageous request and goes against what is in your sig line about WW going NC. You permit this act of pure insanity and you give her the implicit authority to do carte blanche. Whats next"Can I have sex with OM if I ask you nicely?"

I told her when she originally "moved out" that I can't hold her here and she's free to make her own decisions. I borrowed the term "sparrow" from GrayCloud and during that conversation, I told her "she's my sparrow and if she flies away and comes back....." You know the sappy line.

Hell Bob, she's has yet to even mention marital recovery. I also was so caught off guard that I didn't know what else to say. I didn't want to tell her "hell no, you stay here and deal with us" albeit I wanted to......LS

OK, sailor, I just happened to be here when this post came in.

Beam her up!!

What a bizarre question to ask you. This defines her level of intoxication. If it wasn't so serious, it would be funny.

I suggest this answer: "Of course it would hurt me for you to go "out" with OM. Why wouldn't it?"

Note I didn't use the word "angry."

Can you change the locks while she's gone?

Seriously, aother variation of the answer could be: "Of course it would hurt me for you to go "out" with OM. Why wouldn't it? If you choose to do this, don't come back." Then ask her for her keys to your house. When she refuses, ask her what she would do if the roles were reversed. You won't get a rational answer, but it'll feel good asking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm with you sailor. She's insane.

I think you need to get her off the fence - even if it's in the direction of OM. She needs to get a full does of him and feel the resultant consequence of NOT having full access to your daughter.

WAT

Um, um, um (I'm speechless)

I am not sure what I would do. Since she had a talk with Harley and now wants to go out w/ OM......

is this a plan B moment?!

I'm clueless.

Send Steve an e-mail directing him to this thread. He may give you an emergency reply. Ask him - "What the heck happened?" (in their session)

LS My FWW has yet to mention M recovery !!!!! But in her many actions she SUPPORTS IT !

You giving her permission to contact...well I can't imagine what that does to the dynamics of the affair and relationships in your sitch.My FWW demanded that I allow her to see OM in a platonic sense at tourneys.
I told her that the loss of the pre-a platonic freindship with OM was a price of rebuilding our M and that I could not sponsor her in that. She hates it, but hasn't done it yet.

LS, I think this was a por move, but you can recover from it. Set boundaries: say that ant activity involving OM is not supportive of your M and so you cannot ever sponsor it. yoru WW must know that any contact is persued in the full knowledge that you disapprove, that GOD disapporves and that it is counter productive to your M. IMO of course, I am not an old wise head here.

{{{{LS}}}} we all screw up dude, don't sweat it.

Cy....I agree 100%. I asked her about her statement of NC last Saturday.....a very evasive answer "we're just going out as friends". Completely outrageous and hits me dead in the face with it.....

WAT.....I plan on using the hurt line (also said by Steve H because WW can't debate how I feel). I think the housekey is another fine statement. It'll cause an argument but I think it'll be a preface for what I feel is coming real, real soon - probably tomorrow! Plan B!!!

Usually I'm calm by now but this one still has my blood pressure up......She'll be here in about an hour.

While I'm at a loss to help, I will throw out this question:

Ask yourself why would she ask you? If she really wanted to be with him and work on a recovery with him, she could easily lie to you and not tell you who she was going out with.

I know it is hard, and I don't have the answer, but try to put yourself in her shoes and ask yourself why would she tell you she was going to see him and why would she ask?

Is she trying to build up trust with you? Albeit too much too soon?

Again, I have no answers, but maybe these questions can help.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I told her that you are free and I'm just trying to digest what you told me last Saturday about calling it off. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lostsailor - I'll spare you the torrent of thoughts that I have regarding this. Instead, let simply ask you a question. Do YOU believe that spouses are "free" to do whatever they want regardless of how it impacts their spouse?

Was your answer and "honest" answer or a "don't rock the boat answer" in an effort to be a mindreader of your wife's mind?

Here's another question. Have you spent any time on deciding what YOUR boundaries are with respect to a married person, like yourself or your wife, "dating" someone else other than their spouse and what the consequences would be if those boundaries were violated?

Admittedly I do not know your story and am a bit confused about the reference to "her apartment" and the "she'll be home tonight." Is she at home or are you separated?

Lost Sailor,

MY blood pressure went through the roof when I read your post. I can not imagine what is going through your mind right now. I would leave if possible and avoid any contact with her for today. Make her responsible for your child and go see a movie or get some exercise.

Just remember it is not a show of strength to show anger. Neither is it weakness to tell her in no uncertain terms how perverse her request is.

You are definitely in my prayers right now!!

Sent email to Steve H. Not sure if he'll get it considering the time difference.....

TDVA....Good questions and those are a couple of questions that came to mind about 10 minutes ago. WW actually said "I'm trying to be honest with you. I could have lied and said I was going out with girl friends".

I understand the attempt to rebuild....but what? Trust? Trusting that I'll stand by and let her go out with this guy all the while I'm taking care of DD and going about my normal business.

It's also very clear through words and expressions that it hurts me. WW knows it.

I certainly appreciate your response but I can't get my head around the "building trust with me" part. That may be exactly what she's doing, but is it to build a trust that I will enable the affair and continue to allow her to stomp all over our marriage? Thoughts?

CY....There's another good idea. Strength...I like that. It'll help reinforce the boundaries. Thanks for the prayers as I'm feeling the need for one....Even after 30 minutes here.

ForeverHers......

Do YOU believe that spouses are "free" to do whatever they want regardless of how it impacts their spouse? No. When I told her this a couple weeks ago, I believe your second question is the answer. Probably a moment of insanity on my part but I felt that since I can't tie her to a couch, etc....

Was your answer and "honest" answer or a "don't rock the boat answer" in an effort to be a mindreader of your wife's mind? After thinking about that one, it was certainly a "don't rock the boat" answer during my Plan Aing. Obvious mistake.

WW has leased an apartment 1.5 miles from our home. Here every morning at 0630, stays until DD goes to sleep (normally leaves at 10:00 p.m.). Been here more than there which I think is where my false sense of coming home is.

Hmmm. Don't know. Maybe trust is too strong a word. She is at least acknowledging that it is important to tell you what she is doing. A small improvement over keeping the A a secret.

My WW typically says or does something at least once a day.

Reread the three stages of marriage. The good news is your WW is back from Withdrawl and is now in Conflict with you.

She initiated a Conflict over her meeting OM. Again, trying to look at the glass as half full.

At this point all I can do is look at my WW's behavior and try to find a small but meaningful positive. Each day with a positive is one more day hopefully closer to recovery

LS and everyone,

Isn't this all FOGBABBLE?? And do we use logic to argue with fogbabble?? AND THIS IS WACKY FOGBABBLE. "MY HOVERCRAFT IS FULL OF EELS"

My WW, just after Dday, asked me if I wasn't just a little happy for her that she was getting her ENs met with the OM?? WTF!!!

Knock that lady off fence and take the cake from the cake eater! Plan B could be the answer...you are sure not in Plan A, according to the definition, that's for sure!!

k

Also reread the Giver and the Taker. Your reaction was your Giver coming out in full force. The key is to ignore the instincts of both.

I find if I pause 1-2 seconds before I answer my WW I can fight the urges of the Giver and the Taker.

"my WW asked me if I would be mad if she went out with OM."

"Would you be mad if I went out tonight and shot up with heroin?"

Imagine she had asked that instead~~~~~

WHAT would your response have been?

Use the situation to apply some loving boundaries....

"Let me be clear~~~ You are asking my permission to do something I consider to be hurtful, reckless, inconsiderate, immoral, and wrong in every way a wife should behave. You are asking me if I will be mad if you behave in such a way....

Do not worry about making me angry. I will lose respect for you if you continue to make such poor choices. Does that answer your question?"

I think that is a loving boundary.

Pep

<small>[ September 17, 2004, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

LS,
Did she come home? I'm beyond concerned about you.
I haven't been on MB that long, but this is one of the foggiest statements I've heard a WS make...it' as if she has no concept that she's violating her M. You are not a doormat. Enforce those boundaries, I agree with WAT...if she leaves IMHO so be it. Sometmes the fence must be kicked...no yelling, no cursing...but enforce your boundaries.

I'll be waiting for your update friend.

<small>[ September 17, 2004, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

I Love This Board and folks on the other side of my computer screen!!! I'm calm now....probably because DD and friend are behind me watching Home On The Range. WW is at her apartment.

Here's how today/tonight went down:

WW came home 15 min early. I had enough time to read several responses. Shut the computer down and Cymanca came to mind . Leave. I went to the back field and started moving wood chips for DD's playground.

WW came to the field and was upbeat and full of communication. I didn't show anger, just engaging small talk. WW shifted to affection. Hugs me. Sighs. Talks about her C with SH. Affection and talking continued.

About an hour after arriving, WW asked me "what are you and the girls (DD/DD's friend) going to have for dinner". WAT came to mind immediately .

I said "me and the girls?, what are you going to eat?" WW said "he said we'd probably get mexican food". WAT's perfect response that I used..."If you go out with OM, don't come home tonight".

Immediate mood shift. WW said "I thought you said I was free". Pure Bob came to mind .....touche' Bob. That "free" statement came back to bite me in the a$$. I passed up any response.

WW went into the 1000yd stare coupled with lip-biting (an obvious sign that WW is now confused). I went back to working on the playground. I finished, sat down and WW comes out. We really didn't say anything (1000yd stare continued). I couldn't pass up the opportunity when my Beagle came up and I said "you keep running out the back fence and you'll get lost". WW said "yeah, you'll lose her then". My response...."seems to be the trend here".

Went to shower. Told DD and friend to get ready for Chuck E Cheese. Time to take the girls out and escape the drama. Wierd moment...WW takes my clothes and offers to iron them. I let her.

WW told me "if I decide not to go out, I'll join you guys there". My response "If you don't go with us, don't come". As we were leaving, WW hugged me again. I said "see you in the morning" and left. WW slowly walked in the house.

Guess who showed up at Chuck E Cheese's about 30 minutes later.....yup, WW did.

Now the fogbabble starts. Can't relay all of it, but the biggest point was how WW determined this is all her fault and she has to figure out what to do. Babbled about my exposing to his mother, and blah, blah, blah. I tried my best to not lose control and LB all over the place. I didn't but I certainly tossed many points that I feel needed to be said. Comments like "OM should be glad I haven't exposed to the company". WW said "I know you will tell everyone to get your point across". Couldn't deny it, but I also didn't let her know that she was right about that.

Fast forward to here at the house. More babble from WW. TDVA came to mind . I paused for a couple of seconds before speaking - it helped. WW's babble was not derogatory or insulting, just babble (I think I'm staying at the apartment all the time now, except I'll still be here in the mornings and stay until DD goes to sleep....We should go to North Carolina for Thanksgiving.....Huh?) Krusht came to mind . So I tossed out "yeah, my boat is full of water and I can't get these fish out of it". WW turned her head like a puppy hearing a new sound. I wasn't mean, just tossed it out there with conviction. That reverse fogbabble is something else! Helped me laugh inside.

A little later WW left and went to her apartment. Not before asking if she can leave her blouse here for tomorrow's trip to Los Angeles. Sadly, my DD barely acknowledged WW's departure. This was the first time WW left before DD went to sleep. DD was preoccupied with playing. WW made comment about DD not even paying attention that I was leaving. I didn't say anything, just gave the "I don't know" shrug/eyebrow raise. Inside I felt sorry for WW. WW left and here I am.

All in all, it was a heck of a ride from the ole' infidelity roller coaster.

Why did I write all of this? Because WW's actions are no where close to her words. One statement "if you go, don't come home" changed the entire scenario.

WW did not go with OM. WW did come to us (DD and I). Needless to say, I'm working on my Plan B letter once I post this as I still believe the fence needs to be kicked right out from underneath her. I can't take/accept many more drama filled days like this.

Thank you to all! I'm now re-evaluating my boundaries as suggested by FM and ensuring WW knows what they are. I've pretty much committed Pep's response to memory in case this type of question comes up again. I'm going to do a Graycloud "gut check" tonight and see where I'm at.

Once again, the advice worked wonders and the beauty of this board is I was able to put together many responses and use a little from each.

Sidenote: The reason I bolded the names was to show any newcomers/lurkers who happen to read this, the large number of folks who have experience, knowledge and overall damn good advice! All of which helped a Lost Sailor steer the course today.......

.......LS