MB worked for me! And believer you know my story. OW hasn't been seen or heard from since I knocked on her door.

HINY

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ September 24, 2004, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Believer, I was just thinking about Brett the other day. Each time I see a classic car drive by, I peek inside to see if there is a hillbilly driving, with one gold molar, an uneven walk (since his fake leg IS shorter than his real one, with the healed broken toe), and butt crack - with a spittoon riding shotgun. But, alas, no Brett. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

MB worked for me. MB, MC, IC, Lexapro, Valium, yoga, pilates, elliptical trainer, friends, family, books, books, more books . . . and did I mention the Lexapro and valium??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think what MB did for me was 1)gave me a plan to follow, which made me feel more powerful and in control, and 2)gave me a place, day or night, to vent, post questions, get feedback from others who were at the same place as me, in recovery, and all other places in between.

Knowledge is power. I used to think that a partner in M completed the other person. Now I believe that each must be individuals, in order to attain deeper love and happiness. Sometimes, love is just not enough, when you have had no good models to build your M from.

Glad to hear you are doing well, Believer. I sure am.

Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sometimes, love is just not enough, when you have had no good models to build your M from </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My wife always talked about how love can conquer anything. I ended up believing it so much that when the time came when she asked that we go to counseling, I told her that our love would fix our problems.

MB couldn't save my marriage because my wife made up her mind that our marriage was over and nothing could save it. It doesn't matter what we do, if the WS doesn't want to save the marriage, nothing will work.

Reading everyones stories and advice on this board has helped me become a much better me. It helps tremendously to read that you aren't the only one going through the crap that an affair causes.

I know because of this board my next relationship will be a much healthier one. So in that sense MB has helped me.

GDF

MB was the information base I needed and used to deal with my daily and hourly pain. It gave me the knowledge to understand what was unfolding right before my eyes. Weekly MC sessions were good but I needed help so many times during the day or night and MB gave me the immediate ability to post my feelings and to obtain an opinion from experienced people who has been there themselves.

I used the learned MB information to influence the MC's advice to my FWW. My MC had a hard time finding fault with my approach (MB approach) to exposing the affair, stopping the affair, establishing NC, and recovering from the affair and that was due to the MB program, books, and the Boards.

My marriage was definately saved because hadn't MB taught me what being in the fog really meant, I would never had tolerated the things my wife was saying and doing and I would have filed for divorce.

Thanks Dr. Harley and the other dedicated posters.

TooSoon

Yes, MB worked for us. I found this website around D-Day of my H's 3rd A. (1st one 1986, 2nd '94-98, 3rd-9 months in 2002) Went to MB weekend in March '03.

I had read HNHN during one separation somewhere between '96 and '98 but H wasn't really very interested in the concepts or filling out questionnaires at the time. Not thinking that successful relationships should require any effort. I did try to be better at meeting needs but didn't really do a great job. I used lots of Dobson's 'Love Must be Tough' ideas, as well as lots of other info I found in books and on the radio...Read and heard lots of interesting things about man/woman relationships.

I had an ah -ha moment when I clearly saw my part problems in our marriage. I started to do some serious work on me. I learned to be more objective and less controlled by my negative emotions.

Around Dec. '02 I found this site and read it all and about plan A and tried to implement some of the concepts to end the A.

I really saw a lightbulb go off when I had my H read some of the earlier pages in Surviving An Affair.

We got some MC which helped my H realize what commitment means in marriage. The MC had us each read 'Three Minute Therapy'. The MC was a Rational Emotive Behavior Therapist.

Some of what I've learned:

Most marriages can be fixed. Most people give up too soon.

Marriages can survive infidelity. Many people initially believe the fogspeak of their unfaithful spouse and take it personally.

We need to look at our own contribution to the
break down in our marriage.

Couples can have a better marriage than pre-A if they can endure the rollercoaster ride process.

Some A's will need to run their courses before the A can end and the infidel can come out of the fog to see the lighthouse and see that their marriage can heal if they choose.

Clear bounderies need to be adhered to so as to prevent further A's or inappropriate contact with the opposite sex.

It is good to make positive changes in ourselves and have a willingness to fill each others EN's.
It is crucial to remember to follow the Four Rules of Protection.

Many FWS's will feel great remorse and shame once they emerge from the fog and will barely believe that they had said, felt, or did some of the stuff they did during the A.

It is all worth the effort.

I guess you can say we're a MB "program in progress".

I plan A'd my butt off in the midst of the separation & made permanent changes to myself to improve my character, my self-esteem, etc. & he noticed it & wanted to get to know the "new" me better. He broke it off w/the OW after deciding he wanted to reconcile & since he moved home in Feb, he hasn't had contact w/her. He doesn't think about her, only me (from what he says) & we are working together to build the M we've always wanted.

I agree w/Heidi. The MB program works for those that WANT it. When only one person wants it and the other refuses to even try, it can't happen.

I have also survived on the book The Five Love Languages and we're learning a lot about how to express love to the other in the way that they comprehend it. The book's amazing & I would highly recommend it to everyone.

Recovery isn't easy & I'm having a hard time right now, but when I think about it, I know we'll get through this & come out victorious & have a healthy, happy M that we've always dreamed about. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. Isn't that the saying?

For all those out there "struggling", maybe this will brighten your dark tunnel.

I've been on this board since Jan/04. I got the ole "I love you but not in love. I SWEAR there's nobody else" speach on 1/06/04.

On 4/20/04 I finally uncovered physical proof of what I knew...Affairs!! One OW he "fell in love" with. This had been going on since Dec/02. Ended July/03 by OW. But H was still "In love" and in contact. The other woman were one night stands.

On 4/20/04 my H finally "saw the light" and wanted to work on our marriage. In the beginning (although he denies) he was doing it to protect OW, cuz he knew I was about to get nasty. We started MC right away

Final N/C happened 7/15/04.

Today is Sept. 23 2004. I have been to hell and back, just like you all. Recovery is going awesome!! My H looks at me with love in his eyes, and is very affectionate. We talk, joke just like before. No, BETTER than before. We have survived yet ANOTHER storm. This has built an intimacy between us.

I give him and I both credit for where we are today. We are both learning to trust each other again, we are finally on the same side of the fence. I am a total believer in Dr. Harley's His needs Her needs book and Love busters. When reading them, I see how I used to act. The harsh needless words I would use, the times of not thinking of what his feelings were. This is where my H is learning to trust me. He's opening up to me more everyday on issues that he would fear to bring up before. Fearful that I would blow up.

I am of course learning to trust him to be faithful. He is earning that by calling me all the time when apart, and spending evenings lieing with me in his arms on the couch. He went out for a few beers with a Army friend tonight. THis is something that would have sent me through the roof before the A(s). Now, it doesn't bother me a bit. He spends quality time with me now. Who am I to tell a grown man he can't go out with a friend???? It's his life. I shall not control him anylonger.

This Sunday 9/26/04 is our 12th anniversary. We are hoping to go camping together, just him and I. This is something I also wouldn't have done prior to A. "Me, the 'PRINCESS', go CAMPING?? Oh, no. 5 star hotel please". Well, this princess is off her throne (although my H says I will always be a princess) The hell I've lived has taught me to take nothing for granted. I want to experience everything and love my H. Happiness is what you make of a situation. I hope all works out because we will definately spend some good quality time together. We are looking into childcare arrangements.

I remember so well back in Jan/Feb/March/April dreading this day. Crying that there will be no more anniversarys. My H wanted a D. But you know what?? I would listen to my heart. My heart told me that a D wasn't right. Fighting for my marriage WAS right. That's what I did. I fought with everything I had in me. THe pieces fell together, and here we are.

Although rocky days may be ahead. Although there are days that doubt still lingers in my head. There are still days (many) that I hear all the terrible things my H said to me in the fog (and he said them all). I look at my handsome H and think "you are who I want". I read my books (HNHN, LOVE BUSTERS, SURVIVING AN AFFAIR, 5 LOVE LANGUAGES).

I now look at my marriage and my parenting as more of a job than a natural instinct. In a job you need to practice and learn to perfection the latest and greatest to keep going. You need to stay on your toes and do your best or you will fail.

I look at parenting and marriage the same. I will continue learning and practicing. Where I am is what I wanted, I will not lose it again.

Hope this helps anyone that's feeling lost. I was hopeless, clueless and lost once too. Read, study, practice.

One more tip::I never got on the blame game wagon again after my H decided to reconcile. I didn't hold the dark cloud over his head everyday. I would come to this board and post my dark cloud's.

Best to you all

Interesting post. I went and read the link you posted.

Your question was, "does the program work?"

My reply is the program works if two people are willing to work the program. When I was a kid my dentist had this card tacked to his ceiling. It said, there is nothing the doctor can do to over come what the patient will not do.

Dr Harley stated in the link you gave that the A & B plans are not foolproof. They are merely tools to help those who feel helpless to take a step in the right direction. The funny thing is I never read the two plans until just now.

I did however read alot of people's posts and sent a NC email. Quite effective. Buster and I are working on our EN's. I learned that he needs to talk. I learned that I'm allowed to set certain boundaries... like don't talk at 2:00 AM.

Marriage Builders is so much more than Plan A & B.

From the posts here, I found the book Surviving Infidelity by Rona Subotinik and Gloria Harris. I got it used from Amazon.com This does not mean it is the book for everyone here, but it has been a God-send to Buster and I. Huge thanks to whoever recommended it.

It would be nice if MB was a perfect plan to repair marriages. It can't be because you are talking about imperfect people. Some people don't have the capacity to give up the A. Some people don't have the capacity to forgive.

MB works for those who are somewhere in the middle.

Thanks all for responding. I didn't realize so many people are doing so well. Guess I'll have to get over to the recovery board more to read about the success stories.

I noticed a number of respondents mentioned that MB principles only work if both partners are willing. Although it is hard to argue with the concept that being nice to your partner is good for your relationship, that is not really the question. That having a support group can be valuable is also unrelated to the question of whether MB principles "work".

Harley said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">According to this definition, if the WS does NOT separate from the lover, then Plan A has not worked. The same is true for Plan B. No matter how much the BS has "grown" Plan A and Plan B have not worked in that case.

A number of people here seem to give MB principles all the credit for marriages that are restored (often temporarily I fear, based on the number of BS's I have seen return here after several years of supposed recovery), and yet are not willing to say they do not work when marriages are not restored, prefering instead to blame the marriage's demise on other factors. You can't have it both ways. It is like giving a group of people a new drug, and if they recover crediting the medicine, but if they die, claiming that it is because they didn't take it correctly.

"It is like giving a group of people a new drug, and if they recover crediting the medicine, but if they die, claiming that it is because they didn't take it correctly."

Nellie, both have to take the drugs, or follow the program for the marriage to survive. If that doesn't happen, the marriage will die. It doesn't work if only one follows the program.

The WS may recognize the truth of Harley's principles many years later when their new marriage fails because the affair partner, who is now their new spouse, fell in love with yet someone else. That doesn't mean Harley's principles are wrong, or that his program won't work if it is followed by both people.

Cherished

Hi believer

MB worked for us.

When I found out, I threw my H from home. I found MB the next day and started reading like mad.

Before MB, I was going into my M without a compass, this is stuff "everyone knows" but I don't know why it has not applied, at least by me.

It helped me identify many things, EN's and LB's and how I was not meeting them or commiting LB's.

It helped me to see my own faults and not blame my H for my "unhappy M".

It took me out of my own insanity, and let me felt understood, and be part of something, when there was so much pain in my life.

It showed me, that it was not the end of my word, and that things would get better. It gave me hope, and tools to get better, strengh and wisdom.

I did 2 plan A's, and 2 plan B's, both not that good.

My H had a mayor role on it too, when he decided to get out of the fog, and commit to build this M again, but I don't think that whitout the knowledge I gained from here (and gave to him), MC, and LOTS of patience, we would stand a chance.

I used to think that love would make the difference. Now I think love, and knowledge does. If you know what is wrong and what it takes to fix it, and commit to it with all your love, you can have a great M.

We are both recovering and IN love again.

TY MB PPL!.

I found MB 4 years ago after buying Dr Harley's Book. I've read all of them and gone thru Plan A an Almost Plan B and then recovery. It worked for us. If there is something to work with, it will work. It makes sense. One you understand about affairs you realize that a great deal of good marriages end unnecessarily. We're happier now than before the A. We have changed our lifestyle a great deal. I am hopeful that these changes will last and that we can be one of those old couples. Recovery is not easy, but WORTH it. Really.

Nellie </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I noticed a number of respondents mentioned that MB principles only work if both partners are willing. Although it is hard to argue with the concept that being nice to your partner is good for your relationship, that is not really the question. That having a support group can be valuable is also unrelated to the question of whether MB principles "work".

Harley said:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

According to this definition, if the WS does NOT separate from the lover, then Plan A has not worked. The same is true for Plan B. No matter how much the BS has "grown" Plan A and Plan B have not worked in that case.

A number of people here seem to give MB principles all the credit for marriages that are restored (often temporarily I fear, based on the number of BS's I have seen return here after several years of supposed recovery), and yet are not willing to say they do not work when marriages are not restored, prefering instead to blame the marriage's demise on other factors. You can't have it both ways. It is like giving a group of people a new drug, and if they recover crediting the medicine, but if they die, claiming that it is because they didn't take it correctly. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">-------------------

My FWW only read a few articles from MB and she didn't like MB. At the time, she was resisting giving up the OM and she didn't buy all the theories of MB. I did buy the theories though. I was desperate and afraid of losing my entire family over my FWW's affair.

What MB did for me was giving me the knowledge, from other who have been there before, of what I was going through. I came to understand what my wife was feeling and how hers feelings were real to her but how the feelings were built on the fantasy within her mind. MB helped me accept the terrible ongoing slams about my M and myself and to accept the words as fog talk. Had I not understood fog talk, I would have given up early on and accepted the fact that she simply didn't love me anymore.

MB by itself does not cure or fix bad marriages where there is no committment from both sides, but it gives the BS and the post fog state Ws information and knowledge to go forward.

I believe in the bottom of my heart if my wife has another affair, I will make her leave the house and I will not fight her or fight for her again. MB worked for her in this case because she was given one more chance as a result of my strong desire to keep this marriage together.

Our marriage engine needed to be rebuilt and it was almost replaced with a new engine. The rebuilt engine is now running fine but it needs to be maintained and tuned on a regular basis.

Hopefully that helps you understand the MB program better. It is not a fix-all drug but the MB system is a proven tool that works.

TooSoon

<small>[ September 26, 2004, 06:20 AM: Message edited by: TooSoonToBeComfortable ]</small>