I was thinking after reading some posts this morning and of corse my own past situation ..

THE general things that accure more offten then not .

The OP if they mean so much and they are the solo mate BLAH BLAH BLAH and the WS is leaving , niserable and hates or not in LOVE with S anymore ...

THEN WHY DOESN'T THE WS TAKE THEM TO MEET THE FAMILY RIGHT AWAY ? OR THE FREINDS ? OR THE KIDS ?

Why does the OP settle for all the excuses ?

Whats the big deal , you want a D so lets be open with every thing ?

I know in my situation it was the thing that helped me to deal with OW .

I calmly asked her , if you are so IT then why is he hiding you ? I mean if I know about you now , why is he not taking you all over ?

Why are ya in the closet? Why if he LOVES ya so much aren't you meeting the GANG ?

Just thought I would chat this one up a bit .

Maybe I should post it at TOW LOL ?

I understand there are different kinds of OP , some are M themselves, so they keep it unser wraps ...

But in some cases here , the OP have spoken to BS and knows they know or they even live with WS ...

So why does the WS not go for it all ? and why does the OP deal with this ?

3

Hey 3iac!

Believe it or not, I think I can answer that!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why does the OP settle for all the excuses ?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...Because with every addiction, it's filled with lies, and more "importantly", fooling oneself into a false security.

With any addiction, it's an escape.

With this in mind, logically in an illogical mind, why in the world would a WS want to face the truth and face what they are escaping from?!?!

I'm not necessarily saying that a WS escapes form their BS's, BUT, something in that M, that BS, triggered them into "needing" to escape. Whether it be M problems or something deeper, their BS is a trigger. (edit: If it's not a M problem, then it's probably due to the fact that they just can't "accept" that the BS loves them "unconditionally." Something tells them that they aren't "supposed" to be loved.)

I'm pretty sure you were just venting. However, I'm pretty sure this is an answer to your question.

<small>[ September 27, 2004, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

PS...Like I said, this is just one answer to this question. Another one I thought of, regarding a WH? The "Knight in Shining Armour" complex. Add that to the addictiveness/sickness, and it spells big trouble.

PPS...This is why I think--well, from the stories on MB, we know--why, when there is true reconciliation and true MB, that the M is stronger than ever from before: the WS has finally faced the triggers/demons/et al and realizes that this person, this BS, is the one person that hung through it all and could always turn to. All of the energy from trying to stay addictive and "safe" is then truned to "work" and the love of the BS.

Just my two sense.

I hope you are doing well. Keep going, 3iac...one day at a time!

NO NO NO silly I am not venting NOT LITTLE OLD ME !LOL

No seriously , its not as much about he WS that I am talking of .

Its the OP . I mean I am not convinced , or well say belive in this HOLE FOG we speek of (no one 2x4 me )

NOT all parties can be fogged , lets face it .
or can they?

I am not going to hide the fact nor did I ever that OW and her FOG (HEAD UP HER BUTT STATE) was to blame for this as well .

YES my H choice but like ever MURDEER they accomplise is guilty as well . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

OK waiting more replys if any .

3isa - Never posted to you before, but I LOVE your sense of humor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You want to know what I really think? I think it simply boils down to this - people who have affairs are just so self-centered that they don't think of anything other than their needs that are currently getting met. An affair, by it's very nature, is all about short-term or instant gratification and nothing more. Each affairee is getting whatever short-term need met during the affair and nothing penetrates their selfishness.

They are like the perpetual college kids that drag college out for as long as possible so they never have to get a real job and "prove" themselves, yet can still maintain that they are achieving their goal of getting a degree. An affair is the same - the affairees never have to "prove" that they really love each other when it is a secret only to them and they can delude their selfish minds into believing that they are "true" soul-mates. It is truly amazing what deeply self-centered people can convince themselves of.

They are like the perpetual college kids that drag college out for as long as possible so they never have to get a real job and "prove" themselves, yet can still maintain that they are achieving their goal of getting a degree.


Love that one . And met alot of people like that .(can't say many that I've liked either) LOL

Getting into the mind of a particular OP may be the thing I guess I can never do , as most of them are to closed minded to have the conversation . They feel your judgeing them ..

Maybe I would but I do not think so.

IN my situation , I just always found in boggling and I think that some other BS had to feel this way as well ...

I mean they come at the BW/BS with all the your M was over long ago , he is in live with me , your so mean , you don't understand him , ect...CRAP

That I find it funny they don't see the writing on the wall ..

For my H when asked this , he said, he never took her anywhere to meet anyone or anything like that becasue he always knew it was well WRONG ,,, and that he could never see himself not with ME in the long run .

YES that hurt as well cause I felt like he took for granted that I will take him back no matter how long or what ever ...

He truely was feared when I confronted OW and all family in saying I am not fighting or upset to have H back I just want the trueth in the open and HIM to move forward with his decion .

And OW knowing this that it was out of the bag and I would sign D if asked ,,, why in gods name did she still settle for his excuses ?????

This women did not want an "A" she wanted M, kids, family the hole thing .... MY kids ...

So why would she stay fro as long as she did after knowing that ?

Is it there fear of wow now if I push he will walk and W will win ???

What kind of person settles for the "crumbs"

Why not just say buddy when your D look me up ... SEE YA .

LIKE I said maybe there is no one answer who knows , but it seems there are alot of BS dealing with this type (if you will ) OP .

Its funny on TOW they can't see why we don't kick them to the curb ,,, but they do not either and it ain't even there H/W.

Got to LOL

The OP *IS* the WS (wayward Spouse or Wayward Single.) If single, The "WS" is that much more malicious and inhuman at the same time.

LINY, either my head still hurts from the hurtin my BROWNS took by the BIG BLUE yesterday or I really am a unintellegent BS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I lost you man ! are you saying you used the WS instead of the OP for the initails ???

Sorry I am loosing it and its my own thread ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

LINY, either my head still hurts from the hurtin my BROWNS took by the BIG BLUE yesterday or I really am a unintellegent BS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I lost you man ! are you saying you used the WS instead of the OP for the initails ???

Sorry I am loosing it and its my own thread ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hi 3,

For me,my dear departed(mentally)WH knows that his family will never welcome the homewrecker into the family.They even told him so.That is why he doesn't dare "bring her around".No one wants to hear a thing about her.I also told the homewrecker that she isn't welcome....3 times.Does it matter? Nope.Why? Because my WH is with all his cronies right now and the homewreckers parents who all support his abhorrent behavior(homewreckers parents are the product of adultery and see nothing wrong with all of this).

That is the ONLY way he can survive with this person.She will never get to meet his sister(she hates the homewrecker),never get to meet his neice or parents or spend family time at holidays.Not to mention that I am doing all that I can humanly do to keep that trash away from my kids.

The homewrecker will now have to deal with a relatively "poor" man who has to drive 7.5 hours each way every other weekend to see his kids,without HER.Hmmm.Makes for a nice future doesn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Not to mention she can deal with his roving eyes and flirtations with other women.And,I wonder who will do his laundry.

You know,this person really has no idea what is in store,neither does WH.They haven't had to live with each other...yet.So,I have no idea if the homewrecker has received any truth from my WH or not but from my calls to her,she got an earful.Whether or not she believes me is her problem.

They both are still spending their vacation on Fantasy Island but that is about to drastically change very soon.She is willing to have this pathetic relationship because that is all she can get.Her last boyfriend cheated on her for four years and dumped her,according to WH.I don't understand how she can be hurt in that way and then go around and do it to another woman.No wait,it's because she is a selfish, misguided, amoral user.She obviously does not abide by the golden rule of 'do unto to other's as you would have them do unto you'.Maybe she wants to be cheated on again.

Sorry if this was harsh.It just makes me mad.

O

<small>[ September 27, 2004, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

they see the big picture the WAY they want to see it...

just like BS see a remorseful WS the WAY they want to see it..

the way we picture most things in our brains...is rarely how it is..

and human nature and instinct calls us to avoid or block out all that is painful...
and that gray matter between our ears is a master conflict avoider...

it's elementary
and primal...

ARK

Very good question. In time I hope to ask my FWW the very same question with examples form our own life.

Oct.& Ark

Good to here from ya ... yep OCT, I guess they only want to make sense of what they want .

Its amazing that if your WH keeps in touch with family with out her ,, will she eventually see that as a BETRAYAL to her ? OR will he stay away from them because they will not except OW ??

Intersting and still boggles the mind .

Why do people choose to live like this ?

I see your point ARK ,, but that still is in that theory of the HEAD UP YOUR BUTT (FOG) ...

At some point reality has to hit ,,, I don't know why I am just thinking the OP who gets involved (SOP) with WS who truely thought they are with someone who is D or separated would then wake up when they are made aware of the situation ...

I see what your saying about the "WAY " things are veiwed ,, no dought everyone of us VEIW differently ....

BUT wow ,, theres alot more OP out there with there hed in the sand ,,, then they think ...

BUT like I said, before they think BS is the one in LALA LAND .. GO figure !

<small>[ September 27, 2004, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: 3isacrowd ]</small>

Hi 3!

Great post. I don't think I've ever posted to you before, but have read several of your posts. In fact, you said something once that I thought would make a great bumper sticker. I'll have to go back and find it. LOL

Just had to respond to this...

I heard from the OW about 3 months after the A ended. My H called her on d-day and told her I found out about their A. Told OW to never call or email him again. That he was getting rid of her phone numbers/email address and would never contact her again.

She tried calling for a while and H hung up on her every time.

When I notified OW's H about the A, I heard from OW. She kept telling me that I had no idea of the feelings the she and my H had for each other. That I could continue living in my dream world but I had no idea of the feelings they had for each other.

Really?

Hmmmmm.

H went NC on d-day on his own. I didn't know he had done this until after the fact. Neither of us even knew about MB or NC.

H hung up on her several times when she tried calling him after d-day.

Oh, yeah, I see those feelings that OW was talking about. They are all over the place! LOL

Do you think she was in her own little dream world?

Take care.

sss

3,

You were one of the fortunate ones that didn't have to deal with your FWS bringing ow around family, friends, or kids.

I was not so lucky. My FWS went public the day after he moved out. ow showed up at the gig, and went out with FWS with 'friends'. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

My H never introduced her to family, too far away. But they did hang out in public with some of our friends and band members that I thought stood for our marriage. Guess you find out who your friends really are in these circumstances.

It wasn't easy for them however, because we did have friends that refused to have her around them. They really stood up for me. She was not alloweded to go to any of his blues gigs, but I was welcome. My daughter and sons hated her and no way would they tolerate her around them.

At least you were spared some of the choices that I had to make. Let me say that there are certain people that are not part of our lives anymore due to this. FWS lost some friends. Other people I have to deal with because they are business associates, but I no longer hang out with any of them. I am polite if I see them.

Count yourself fortunate that you did not have to deal with that kind of humiliation, and did not have to cut people from you life as a result of FWS fog. Glad your H had the sense to keep ow away from his real life, so to speak.

I for one, will never recover from that kind of treatment. I have forgiven FWS, and FWS friends, but they are not my friends. My FWS is wonderful these days, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> but there are consequences for bringing the op around in public, and then going back to your spouse. Let me just say that our social life has changed a lot.

So count your blessings, 3, and all the rest of you BS's whose spouse would not bring op into their friends and families lives.

Love to all,

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Remember that almost the whole premise of the actions of the affair are not based on reality...

the whole secrecy thing creates false senses and false environments...

the two affairees expend a great amount of energy keeping reality at bay when together.....and a great amount of energy on the easy stuff..

even the "mind blowing sex" is the easy part...
sex is easy
it feels good...
teenagers understand this perfectly.....

it's the real stuff that is avoided...

look at how many WS and OP...lay down with eachother for sex...
yet you read post after post about how they are afraid to ask the WS this question or that...

when you step back and really look at that aspect of an affair...it smacks of total self disrespect...

I pray I am never confused enough that I am more comfortable having sex with someone of whom I am AFRAID to ask a question
or have a conversation about this or that....

the irony of sleeping with someone of whom they are "afraid" to talk...never escapes me..but there is post after post on TOW titled...

scared to ask...
which translates in to...

I'm so afraid that I might 'lose" this person I will get nekked with them and create this illusion of intimacy...while at the same time avoid at all cost ever asking them if they will leave their spouse or any other question of real depth...

they also apply great depth and connection to superficial easy things to discuss and call it a great connection and soulmates.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's so unhealthy....
it's so damaging to all involved...

BS live the reality of the actions that the WS and OP go to great efforts to stay away from...

BS are the ones left to ask the tough questions...because they see the reality of the actions as soon as D-day occurs

ARK

SSS,, thanks for shareing and yes it is those our feelings are so right thing that I am refering to as well ...

So much so that N/C was done and so was SHE ! A story of a WS I like to hear <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> something I said, BUMPER STICKER WORTHY NO WAY !

Miss M ,,, see now this is the exact thing I am talking about ....in another version ,,,follow me !

NOW what was the steps you took ? no right or wrong they where you decions ...

Lets say you said, I love ya , but if this is the reality you want then , fine and OW knowing you know and well are "not standing in his way " then why would she not presure the hole package ?
Move in , get D, ect.

AND yes Ark again ,,, I agree to that what you say ,,, they do not have the REAL thing if things need to be avoided ....

SO that to is my point ,,, why do OP think BS are living with there head in the clouds . When the OP in some cases are shown the WS has all choices and given every option to do what was promised of them and they make one more excuse (lie) after another and the OP sits by and waits and waits .

Where is there self esteem ? Are these people just that needed they will , again take any crumb as long as it shows them that the ws is not with BS .

YES my H was a coward and a selfish one at that , drove the OW nuts in the end to get away from her lie after lie ...He was wrong for doing it to ME . Showed no respect for me at all ....

BUT the longer it went on and the lies he told her amazed me that this person (OW) would take this for so long and I mean they where so not believable ....

It was like she wanted to win at that point ,, just WIN him from going back to me .
She had the number never called , to see if he was home ... I did I called I wanted reality .

So why are they so afraid they are not M to this person , no history, no children ....what in gods name could they be afraid to walk away from !!!

YOU got to know the reality when you walk into this ,,, I mean you have to you can't be this stupid , blind , deaf and what ever else ........


I mean he made promises to me ,, and I saw reality ,,, hey maybe he loves her ok so be it .

It can happen.

There will always be so many unanswered questions in an A on the part of the BS (JMO)

The thought process into the OP mind being one of them ..

JUST talkin here , nothing more to it , seeing the situations here of how many OP are living with and that BS have confronted them ,,, I think its almost commical that more OP don't wake the HE!! up .....

The kids will grow , what excuse do they use after that ? The S don't care they will isgn D papers , What excuse now? Money well it shouldn't even matter someones always going to pay , what excuse now ?

THE best is they are family and don't believe in D so they must stay with S even though they are miserable and not having sex with them ...

I LOL everytime I read one of those ,,, or the I am open with you and honest but never had that ever with S ....

OP buys each one and goes to the bank for more money ,,, like they get a discount on the LIES
Special today 2 lies for a BUCK ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

BUT we (BS) are the fools in there eyes cause we take the ws back working on issues ..

3iac....sorry! It was me just being, well, ME!

In my eyes (and certainly if they are M), the OP *is* the WS. The whole "wayward single" was just a play on the initials. Sorry if I had you caught up in my attempt to be clever!

But, very "intelligent" you are. And, a good memory. Maybe I should start a new thread: Do BS have better memories.............

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />