I have not been blinded by rage in a long time, but this morning, I actually started to see things I was so mad.

My WW got more hours on Friday, she opens the Gym @ 6:00am. She is supposed to have the kids on Friday and did not have a babysitter. Her only solution was to have the OM watch the kids alone. I hate that concept, so I come over at 5:45am and her brother comes over at 9:00am, than I go to work.

This morning when the kids woke up, they wanted to show me the pumpkins they painted. They showed me mommies, DS and DD then the started looking for Mr. Ron's (the OM name) pumpkin. Well, I found it and it was painted along with the kids and my WW.

I cannot believe she had a nice family afternoon with our kids and that scum-sucker!!!! I called her when I left her apt and did some major LB. Then I called her again and did some more, after she hung up on me, I called her again and left her an angry message.

I am supposed to go to her apt tonight to pick up the kids so she can celibrate her friends B-day with the OM. Then, I can go camping w/my friends on Saturday.

This rage is hard to control.

Must control 'fists of death'!!!!

At least my kids still tell me they love me. At least my family still loves me. At least my friends still care about me and want me to be happy.

I feel like the Hulk. i.e. HULK WILL SMASH!!!!

Can I plan my insanity and go kill the OM and still get off on a crazy plea?

You might be able to pull it off, and just end up in the crazy ward instead of jail, but I wouldn't advise it.

The weird thing about these WS's (well one of the weird things) is that they think it is appropriate to involve their affair. Yuck!

Your rage is understandable but totally counterproductive to helping end your WW's affair and rebuild the marriage. Whatever the outcome of your marriage, be very careful in not nurturing the anger because it has the potential of poisoning you and turn you into a bitter man that nobody is going to want to be around.

canthishelp, I know EXACTLY how you feel. I confronted the OM at least twice, before my W made me move out. The ONLY reason I was able to restrain myself, was my children. I didn't want to go to jail, and leave them with my W and OM. But my Mom always told me, "What goes around, comes around..." and the W's and OM's actions landed him in jail, at least for a little bit, and I didn't have to do anything. Karma got them.

I'm fortunate in that my wife and the OM never got to the point of seriously talking about a future togehter. Still..I understand the rage. Many times over the last week, I've thought about pulverizing the guy. But..death is too good for him. I prefer a long, slow suffering for him in his troubled marriage.

There is an adage about "living well" being the best revenge. I believe that - and in my case, I hope the guy turns emerald green with envy when he sees how strongly our marriage emerges from this. He tried to win my wife's love. He failed. That ought to eat at him for a good, long time.

One thing here...I admire your willingness to try to take care of the children through this hard time. You're right: it would be very inappropriate for the OM to take care of them alone. Your WW should also make it Clear to the kids that while the OM is her boyfriend, he is NOT their father. She needs to make that clear to the OM, also..and if he has any compassion for her at all, he'll accept that.

I'm fortunate in that my wife and the OM never got to the point of seriously talking about a future togehter. Still..I understand the rage. Many times over the last week, I've thought about pulverizing the guy. But..death is too good for him. I prefer a long, slow suffering for him in his troubled marriage.

There is an adage about "living well" being the best revenge. I believe that - and in my case, I hope the guy turns emerald green with envy when he sees how strongly our marriage emerges from this. He tried to win my wife's love. He failed. That ought to eat at him for a good, long time.

One thing here...I admire your willingness to try to take care of the children through this hard time. You're right: it would be very inappropriate for the OM to take care of them alone. Your WW should also make it Clear to the kids that while the OM is her boyfriend, he is NOT their father. She needs to make that clear to the OM, also..and if he has any compassion for her at all, he'll accept that.

I'm fortunate in that my wife and the OM never got to the point of seriously talking about a future togehter. Still..I understand the rage. Many times over the last week, I've thought about pulverizing the guy. But..death is too good for him. I prefer a long, slow suffering for him in his troubled marriage.

There is an adage about "living well" being the best revenge. I believe that - and in my case, I hope the guy turns emerald green with envy when he sees how strongly our marriage emerges from this. He tried to win my wife's love. He failed. That ought to eat at him for a good, long time.

One thing here...I admire your willingness to try to take care of the children through this hard time. You're right: it would be very inappropriate for the OM to take care of them alone. Your WW should also make it Clear to the kids that while the OM is her boyfriend, he is NOT their father. She needs to make that clear to the OM, also..and if he has any compassion for her at all, he'll accept that.

I know how you feel. I am also angry. It is too soon since I have found out (barely 2 wks) and I can't control my emotions right now. I am sabatoging any recovery with my own rage. He tries to talk to me and I just blow up. The killer is, that in looking back, it is my anger and frustration that has gotten us to where we are now. I am not saying that I forced my H to have an EA because I was just generically PO about everything, because I know he wasn't a victim he was a volunteer. But I can see how my feelings and attitudes contributed to how he felt about himself and our relationship and he found what he needed from someone else. It is a bullet between the eyes that makes me look at myself and my behavior. For my case, I was ticked off with him for ignoring me for so many years and the more I tried to tell him, and he still didn't hear me or listen to me, the angrier and more frustrated I got. The difference between him and me, is that even though I wasn't getting what I needed from him, I didn't choose an A. I know now after last nights blow up, that I need to do something else. I have beaten him up figuratively about the A and also what happened in the past over the last weeks that he looks like a whipped dog. He said something that really made me think. He said "you say you love me, but this can't be love, I don't know what it is, but someone who supposedly loves someone, doesn't treat the other that way." I'm not saying I should just let bygones be bygones, or let him off the hook or that what he did was any less hurtful or painful to me. But...I'm losing the war in my delivery and I need to change it. I have emptied the LoveBank so much in the red, that it just isn't possible for him to be receptive. And certainly he doesn't feel capable or comfortable in sharing or telling me anything when he knows that it just means another confrontation.

Hi CTH,

I really understand your rage.I have had the same about my WH's homewrecking trash.She lives in another country but I told my WH that he better never introduce my daughters to that homewrecker or I can't be held responsible for my actions.So far he has complied but as we near a D I can hear the wheels spinning that he wants to play pretend happy family with the homewrecker even though my girls don't want to know or meet this person ever.No one in both our families acknowledges her and never will.That's not to say that WH is off the hook either but for obvious reasons,it's harder to slam the door in his face than it is the OW.

All,I can say is that maybe you should broach the subject of leaving the children out of the time your WW has with OM.It is TOTALLY inappropriate that she is dragging them along and meeting this guy who is actively invovled in the destruction of the family and marriage.SICK! Stand up for your kids.Say that this is not going to happen anymore and you will go to court if need be to keep this guy away.You are both STILL married for heavens sake and obviously your WW is NOT looking out for their best interests,only her selfish ones.GEEZE. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

CHILDREN DO NOT NEED TO BE WITH OP'S BUT THEY DO NEED TO BE WITH THEIR PARENTS!!!!!! I hate it when WS's do this!

O

AndrewA, thanks for the 'living well' quote. I am going to try it, but I doubt if I can do it.

maprennat I hope you find the strength that so many people here have. Please keep posted so you can vent here and not on your H.

October, have you been able to wrangle anything that states the OW cannot be around the kids in the legal papers? I do not think it is possible to do unless the OP is a danger to the children, which is hard to prove. Let me know how you were able to.

I still feel the rage, but I think I can control it. Now I just have a massive headache.

CTH,

I had the OW banned from seeing my DS in our custody papers. It wasn't hard. When I went in to see the judge I stated that I would like to be able to control where DS spent his time that there was a third party involved and that DS was too young and very confused about his father leaving and he was acting out. The pediatrician even wanted me to seek therapy for him at 3 YO. The judge put OW name in the papers and gave me six months of her not being around the child. Well needless to say FWH has come back around and is defogging and we are recovering as well as can be expected right now, but OW has never been around DS not even once. So you can do it, it is possible.

HINY

I'm still new to Plan A, but I have to agree with TMCM that the anger is counterproductive...
Think of it this way:

</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is it making YOU feel better to be angry? Is it benefitting your life/health in any way? If not, then don't bother with it. Aren't YOU the most important person in your life?</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't you think that your anger and love-busting to your wife is giving her EXACTLY the justification she needs to continue the affair and shut you off?
  Think of her saying the following to him after your angry phone calls:
  "See, he's a crazed maniac, Mr. OM, you're so sweet and kind to me, I don't know why I married him, please protect me and the kids!"
  You're just making her turn to him even more - at this point, your anger is HELPING her affair grow stronger.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
And I have one more thing to add...without trying to be judgmental, just a curiosity...

Why is everyone always mad at the OP?

The OP may be less than respectable because they knowingly entered into a R with a married person...
and their morals may be suspect for not being objective enough to say to your S "are you sure we're doing the right thing, don't you think you should back up and make sure you can't work it out with your S?" (yeah right)...

But think about it - do you blame them?
If you love your S, you think they're physically, emotionally, personally a very attractive person...otherwise you wouldn't have married them!
So can you fault this OP for being attracted to those same qualities that you appreciated first?

My BS/WW's OM is certainly not my favorite person in the world...I wouldn't mind if he disappeared, that's for sure...but I certainly hold no ill will towards him nor do I blame him.

I think my W is a wonderful, fabulous, sexy, beautiful, smart creature who has made a mistake (as have I) and is deluding herself with this A.

I certainly don't blame any man for seeing those same qualities, in fact, he and I probably have a lot in common. I'd probably get along well with him under different circumstances.
And I don't know him at all, so I certainly can't say that I hate him or pass judgment on him.

Obviously, if you have other reasons for hating the OP outside of the A itself...they were hostile to you first, they said bad things to the kids, they've been abusive, you've witnessed them doing horrible things...etc...then that's a different story entirely.

Just musings...don't take it the wrong way if you are an OP-hater <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: VnusMars ]</small>

VnusMars,

I just had to say that I don't agree with your simplistic and romanticized explanation of why an OP gets involved with a MARRIED person.Spoken like a true WS.Perhaps if you had been a BS first instead of a WS(seems so in your sig line) then the impact of the situation *might have made you more understanding of what the betrayal is like when another person BLATANTLY ignores the wedding ring,vows and status of a married person for their own selfish needs.

Of course BS's do this too but I cannot fathom sinking so low as to actually be aware that another person is married and STILL get involved,emotionally,physically and sexually.We're not talking about a little mistake like,"Oops I forgot to make a left turn at the light", We're talking MAJOR painful and selfish malfunction here!

With sugar coated attitudes like this,Infidelity rates are going to keep rising.And they are.

"Do we blame them?" He** yeah.What is wrong with people?! Grrrrrrr.Not picking on you,just what you said.

O

I hope I can prevent the OM from being anywhere near my children. He is in jail for now, after all, and I do not want influences like that around my children.

canthishelp - Several people have said that it's counterproductive to be in a rage. I agree -- and I'd suggest that you find two books to start to work through it. I spent way too many days sitting in my car pounding on the steering wheel as hard as I could (and then living with the bruises and aching muscles afterwards). There are two books that people recommend for anger management:

The 60 Second Anger Management Book, by Dr. Michael Hershorn and
Anger: Wisdom for Cooling the Flames, by Thich Nhat Hanh

You might want to find some time to look at these two books and see if you can start to work through the really awful sensations that go with the rage. It's totally understandable that you're feeling it -- so turn to look at it, face it, and try to learn what you can from it.

Folks often mention that they don't want the OP around their kids. I can really understand and empathize with that feeling.

In my own personal case, the OM became nearly a footnote in the battle to protect my parental relationship to my daughter. I didn't even notice that he was still in the picture for months.

I noticed that he was still there because his presence was creating a risk to my parental relationship with my daughter. A real, non-zero, legal risk. I wish it were otherwise, but it's not.

I don't, because of that risk, ever want him around my daughter.

More than that, I believe that he is a poor role model for my daughter. He's made life choices that I wouldn't want my daughter to make.

My own situation is unique. Many people say that -- in my case, I think it's quite true. I'm pretty sure I'm the only non-biological mom in a same-sex relationship on this board. (Yay me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

But there are things in my situation that I suspect carry through to many others.

There are an awful lot of people who are horrified and furious because their children have to be around people whose judgments and actions are terribly hurtful -- terribly harmful -- to them.

Hurt leads to anger -- to fury -- to rage. It's built deeply into our biology. There's a cute little acronym that people use to figure out what's going on when anger is in the picture. Anger is a secondary emotion. In other words, psychologists have learned what most of us already know instinctively. Something has to happen to hurt us before we get angry. The acronym is GIFT:

Guilt
Inadequacy
Fear
Trauma

These are the things that are underneath anger. When you're angry, underneath it is one of those things. When there's been an affair -- it hits all of them.

Guilt -- Is this really all my fault? What should I have done differently?
Inadquacy -- I wasn't good enough.
Fear -- I'm terrified that my marriage will fall apart, my children will be hurt, my life will fall apart, I won't be able to make it through
Trauma -- The bone-deep shock to the system of finding out that your entier world isn't what you thought it was.

When those things are all piled one on top of the other, and when a threat to our children is piled upon that ... then there is essentially no way for our conscious minds to keep up with the flood of hormones that courses through us as anger or rage.

So when I think of my own situation, where there are real legal risks to my daughter and me, I understand where it all comes from.

When I think of others in my position, I understand it as well. Though the risk to me is perhaps more palpable than it is in other situations, I think each parent experiences a deep, visceral terror of losing his or her children.

I also think that most of us believe that our children should not be exposed to adults who do things that we were taught, early in life, are unethical -- and that we know quite personally do, in fact, cause harm.


So -- the question then becomes how the OP is different from our wayward spouse.

The easy answer, for me, is that OM is not my daughter's father -- but WP is one of her moms. It causes grievous harm (that's a legal term with very specific meanings) to separate a child from his or her parent. That harm trumps a whole lot of other things. Parents who are convicted felons are not taken away from their children. Even parents who may be a danger to their children themselves are allowed to see there children -- in very carefully protected circumstances.

The OP, on the other hand, is not the child's parent -- and even if the OP was a close family friend, there is no grievous harm to the child if the child does not have contact with the OP.

Even more than that, the children -can- be harmed if this person comes into their lives, becomes a caregiver and (step)parent-figure, and then disappears again. The harm is in the disappearance -- and the only way that a the other parent can try to limit the potential for that harm is to try to limit the time that the child spends with the other adult.

That's a tough stance to take... but the standard recommendation that I've heard is that you wait a year before you introduce your boyfriend or girlfriend to your children. Most people who are in the midst of affairs have a very hard time understanding why that might be wise, because they don't want to countenance that their affair, for which they've given up so much, might end.

OKay, I wrote this while trying to watch the presidential debate and I suspect I kinda lost my thread somewhere along the way. Sorry!

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Just J ]</small>

The rage is now a blinding fury that I cannot imagine being able to cope with. The only reason I am sitting at my computer right now and not driving to the WW new apt for a huge nock-down battle is that our kids are sleeping peacfully upstairs.

That crazy b!tch had the nerve to call me up at 11:00pm (and wake me from one of the few deep sleeps I ever get into) and accuse me os stealing the OM watch from her jewerly box! I was pretty groggy when I spoke to her and did not answer right away. She did not believe me and hung up. When I fully woke up, I called her and she said she found it and was sorry. When I asked how his watch came to be in the jewerly box I bought her, she mumbled some things and when I pressed, she said, "I don't know, don't you take your watch off when you sleep?" She did not mean to say that and started to back pedal immediatly.

I called her again and asked if he ever slept there when she had the kids. She said no, and I hung up on her. I called her back again and asked her if there was any way she could think off that she could prove that he did not sleep there when she had the kids. She could not and then got mad. I asked her how it felt to bring another man into the bed we purchased as a family and had kids in? She hung up then turned her cell phone off. Then I left another message that said I still love her.

I wonder who is crazier at this point. I know my feeble grip on sanity is ever realeasing.

VnusMars: Are you for real? How in the world can you not be mad at the OP? They are at least 1/2 the reason an A is going on. If the OP had an ounze of decency, they would not involve themselves with a married person. I fell in love with a married woman, and it was the dumbest thing I ever did. I ended it with her the second I realized how much I loved her. Anyone that knows they are involved with a married person has serious moral issues and needs to look deep into there psych to determine what exactly is broken within them.

Just J: Thank you for the anger management tips. I just realized that I am at least as med if not more mad then when I found out. Since I have known for months that another man has been inside my wife, why now should it bother me that I find out they sleep together? What makes me mad is that less then 1 week ago, my WW sat in our kitchen and told me that she still loves me and does not want a divorce. Now I find out that since then, she allowed the OM to sleep in our bed!

I know that anger is a reaction and a tool designed to save your life dating back to when we were a 'less' civilized race. I am aware that anger has most likely driven my WW further away from me. But just because I know these things, does not seem to help much. Its as if I knew I had cancer, I would not be better because I knew it.

I now think that I could be a boxer if I could bottle up this power I feel in my veins. The movie 'Figth club' makes much more sense today than ever before.

I guess I need to move on. My MC told me Thursday that he thinks my WW is going to 'come around' and that I should back off my pursuit of the legal seperation. I want it more now then ever before.

Yet I still love her and if she left the OM, I would take her back in a second. Maybe I should stop telling her that?

This is a long post. Thanks if anyone actually read it to the end.

Yesterday I decided I was going to back off in discussing the A and or our relationship. I felt that both of us were pretty beat up and emotional considering the circumstances and we were getting no where. I told him that I felt we both needed a few days to let things settle. It seemed to work as I brought nothing up, yet he seemed to be the one to want to talk. I just listened. One of the things that hit me yesterday, was that I was being this really witchy, confrontational individual. I was pointing out to him all the mistakes he had made, in the past, in the present, etc. And...out of the blue it hit me. All of these actions just make her look better and better to him. "She's so calm, she's so understanding, she makes me feel so wonderful, she listens to me." And I look like some half crazed rabid dog. Now I am not saying things are all that much better, but...time, even a little, puts some prospective on things. One thing I didn't comment on, but thought to myself, because I thought it was hysterically funny in a way. He says he doesn't trust me anymore because I went through his cell phone and then got the cell phone records. That I owed him some consideration of his privacy! HELLO?! He even went to point out that he never checks my e-mail or anything like that. Like I would even care if he did, as I have never and even now have nothing to hide. I know that he is trying to justify in his own mind, that somehow because I invaded his privacy is the reason he feels the way he does, and because if I hadn't, then he wouldn't have gotten caught and therefore he wouldn't feel so.....bad, guilty, terrible. Why is it that cheaters want to turn the blame on everyone else except themselves? Anyways, just talking. I went out yesterday and bought a journal. I have been writing ALOT in it. It really seems to help in getting those angry feeling out on paper and also really thinking things through.

I may have no business commenting . . . I've been watching/reading this forum for months. I suspect infidelity in my marriage and I'm curious to learn more about how people handle the suspicion, the information, and the dealings with it.

I've been reading about Plan A and have difficulty fulling understanding it after the A is exposed. I feel that Plan A may conflict with my self-respect as an individual. I feel that I try my hardest to be the best I can be. I work hard, help support my family, take care of the kids, cook, clean, shop, etc. So if at the end of the day when I feel taken advantage of my H who comes home and lays on the couch does nothing but be sure to locate the TV remote control (on a good day), sure I may have some sarcasm in my tone, a little disappointment in my voice, some distance in my presence . . . then so be it. I feel as if I would lose respect for myself if I had to constantly compare myself with an OW thinking that "she's probably not sounding disappointed" or "she's probably happy to see him" or "she probably finds the remote for him and has it set nicely on the coffe table." YUCK!!! Not happening.

CTH, I can imagine your rage and anger with all your dealings with you W. Maybe I'm all wrong, but I was thinking that you were handling yourself pretty good when you were telling her all the points that were important to you, i.e. the OM sleeping in your bed where you made your kids, how thoughtless it was of her to bring an OM into your kids' lives, etc. On top of all that, you were initially called and accused of STEALING (OM's jewelry to top it off)! THEN you leave a message and tell her you still love her. I think you sound kind-of sappy to me. Sorry.

Journaling is a really good option, maprennat. CTH, you might find that writing it all out -- as you are here, may help you.

And CTH, you also said some pretty valuable things. The rage that you're feeling right now is a really good reason to simply take some time for yourself. You can call it Plan B if you want to, but I prefer to think of this particular thing the way Thich Nhat Hanh describes it in his book.

I wrote a post about it which is somewhere on this board, but it's buried deeply, so I'm going to point you to where I re-posted it over at SYMC -- it's here.

The thing I really would like you to think about it this: While you are so angry, you're unable to have compassion for your wife.

That puts you and her at risk because you're going to be much more likely to take action without regard for the harm that it causes.

Not a good situation.

To put it very mildly.

SYMC refers to Plan B as Protection Phase. In this case, I'm thinking that you may need to protect your wife -- because you are so angry that you're unable to be compassionate toward her. It's really, really important that you work through the anger. It is, perhaps, the most important thing you'll do this whole year, maybe this whole decade.

And while you're doing it, being around someone for whom you have lost compassion is really, really not a good idea.

RCCM227 said:

I've been reading about Plan A and have difficulty fulling understanding it after the A is exposed. I feel that Plan A may conflict with my self-respect as an individual. I feel that I try my hardest to be the best I can be. I work hard, help support my family, take care of the kids, cook, clean, shop, etc. So if at the end of the day when I feel taken advantage of my H who comes home and lays on the couch does nothing but be sure to locate the TV remote control (on a good day), sure I may have some sarcasm in my tone, a little disappointment in my voice, some distance in my presence . . . then so be it. I feel as if I would lose respect for myself if I had to constantly compare myself with an OW thinking that "she's probably not sounding disappointed" or "she's probably happy to see him" or "she probably finds the remote for him and has it set nicely on the coffe table." YUCK!!! Not happening.

RCCM, I'd like to ask you to think about this a little more. If you have sarcasm in your tone, disappointment in your voice, and you feel taken advantage of.... then why not address the matter with your husband without attacking him? It's one of the hardest things in the world to do, but it can be very helpful to a marriage.

Rather than trying to stuff your feelings into tone of voice, why not give them words -- while remaining compassionate and respectful?

Would you consider trying what's known as the transparent honesty approach? It may well feel like it's not "enough," but it's more than what you're giving your emotions right now.

If he's lying on the couch and not giving you -- what would you want? Help with the house? Affection? Conversation? Then say it. Gently.

"Hon, I'm a little disappointed that you're watching TV. How would you feel about [insert what you'd like him to do instead]."

Then, and this is the hard part, create space. Create silence, create physical space, create mental space. It's not the words that are the tough thing here, it's the lack of words.

That's where the compassion is -- and that's where it's really important that you listen to your own emotions and understand them for what they are. It's very difficult, but it can really make a difference.