Hello,
Friends I'm sorry to be this blunt, this rude but the fact is I'm very tired, infact I am passed tired. I should not have to beg for affection from my W. I am the only person who can determine what is too much for me to endure, and I'm saying that this is NOW OFFICIALLY TOO MUCH! I understand the principles and I do agree with them, but to me in my humble opinion sometimes the WS must go through losing their spouse and I also feel that problems that existed pre-A must be resolved. Many of the problems within my M stem from, not so much outside people but issues between us as a couple and I cannot ignore those issues eventhough she would rather I did. I sit here swallowing the garbage and I'm able and ready to deal with swallowing my pride in order to preserve our M, but my W is by no means ready to do likewise. My W is not ready to love me, she only wants to ensure no one else has me while she finds a way to deal with her own issues. This is not enough. I will be updating this thread, like I told my W I do sorely miss her and I want things to work out, but I am not a saint, I am not Peter though I wish to be a better man, a more spiritual man one day, I am on the road to such revelations, until then I am very much faulable and a faulable man who craves his W should be alotted that especially during times when he is so torn by her actions. I will update this thread later, but as for now I must salvage myself, as it is apparent my happiness, well-being or sanity is not foremost on my W's to do list...not now, and hasn't been for several years.

Tonights issues are just an indicator that I need more in my M and that for whatever reason this need isnot met in my M. I understand that antying is possible if 2 people are committed to creating it but in my opinion my W is only committed to wallowing in self pity and depravation. IF OM was to walk to our door and beg for her to do his bidding she would, but as of now...call it fog, or whatever you call it..my own SLEF RESPECT will not allow this garbage. I deserve and DEMAND more and if my W is not ready to give me more, I will accept that fact and move on. I am a big boy and it's children who hang onto their pasts NOT grown men of bravery and galor.

Thanks

Sincerely YOurs,
Family Realy Does Matter

<small>[ October 26, 2004, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

I couldn't post my "last" post wallowing in self-pity and wah wah wah...

FM, you've been through alot. And that's just things you've told us. There's the daily getting up in the morning and thinking to oneself, "what kind of bullsh!t do I have to endure today?" And then actually enduring it! It's supposed to be a hypothetical question, but only turns pathetic. Right? Funny...and we're on different sides of the fence.

Time for Plan B. I suppose. You're right: Only you know. Don't lose your love for her; don't lose your self-respect; certainly, don't lose your mind; don't lose your kids.

I wonder if one can Plan B themselves? If there is an answer to that, I'll be the first to sign up. Somehow I'll convince your W.

Best wishes to you, FM. May God lead you down the path full of fruit, wisdom, knowledge, and happiness. Only you (and Him) know how to achieve this.

(Edit: Regardless of where this path leads you, I will admire your compassion, patience, love, conviction, committment, wit, etc. you have shown. I wish--I pray, I could only be half that man that you are to your wife that I would like to be to mine.)

<small>[ October 26, 2004, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

FM you have earned the right to do as you choose to do right now. No-one can fault your effort and investment, your patience and your willingness to forgive.

You can up sticks and leave and no-one would call you on it.

This however is a RIGHT youhave not a mandate. you do not HAVE to quit just because you can without shame. It is another tool in your arsenal NOT a mandatory path of action.

Whetever you do, many of us on here will nod sagely and say "There goes a brave man".

All blessings as you decide your next step FM.

If what you are doing is not working, try doing the opposite.

Life is short and I sincerely hope that whatever you do next wakes her up, for her sake as well as yours.

I also echo the others feelings of admiration for you, and your spirit.

You are a good guy FM!

I AGREE with Weaver.... If it isn't working then he last ditch effort do the oppisite ...

Swallow nothing , speack your mind ,,, show how you feel ,, do not hesitate ...

Be who you want to be at all times , you have to look youeself in the mirrior for the rest of your life ..

Rihgt now I do not see it as bad to think about your needs to improve this M ...

Tell her to get on board , cause the giver train is pulling out ...

You have taken this very far , your PLAN A was great ,,, PLAN B although short spelled it out ...

SHe said , she wanted back in , that she was ready to recommit ....

Well SHE needs to step up ,,,

You need to be true to YOU !

It is not about the kids , it can not be about HER all the time ....

YOU deserve what she said that she was there to give now ...

NO it is not perfect and there will be hard times even if she starts to take part in recovery , but thats better to deal with then someone taking up space ...

LIFE is to short , time is not something to be wasted away ...

BE STRONG , Be YOURSELF ,, YOU are very worthy of happiness and a good healthy life ..

Please calm down, you have every right to decide if you want to remain married or not but whatever you decide, try to make it a product of a cooler head prevaling. Remember that life altering decisions born out of a highly emotional mindset, almost always come back to haunt us.

Thank you all for responding, I have stepped back for a moment to inhale/exhale and re-examine just what I'm trying to preserve? My W is doing the best she can, right now it just seems way too little. Life has been very difficult for so long, obstacle and gut-wrenching set backs, btw..my daughter is officially a runaway now, having been gone for almost a month this time, I am nearing my wits end. I can't help but wonder has my W's running away influenced my D to do the same. It seems both W and D seek to hurt me repeatedly and yet I'm the one they look to fix their messes and rescued them from themselves, others and lifes traumas. The truth is I would almost have the resolve to do it if I felt truly appreciated for my efforts. It's one thing to climb a mountain with people cheering you on, it's another thing totally to climb a mountain without any support and as your muscles scream from over-exertion you start to wonder

"Hey why am I climbing this dumb mountain again?"

I think for my own sanity it't time I pull back from my situation. I must convince myself not to try so hard!! I keep trying, I can't seem to help it. I want my W, but at this time all she can muster is to be present physically, not romantically, emotionally or spiritually. I sit and watch how she caters to my son and I can't help but wonder if she catered to OM in the same way...I mean GOSH OM is merely a child himself. See there I go down that road of stupidity, what good does thinking those thoughts do me or my M?

My W now sleeps in my daughters bedroom. I think this separation is a good thing for the moment at least though I don't see my W being the bigger person and reconciling us from our latest blow up, she has never been the peacemaker or the resolver, she has always been perfectly content to walk around for days not speaking, withholding and spraying our home with the aerosol of TENSION. What do I do now? I so miss having someone in my life to laugh with, smile with, who appreciates me and respects my efforts. I would rather be alone than feel rejected by my own W time after time, what I need to do is to STOP trying, stop looking for my EN's to be met, but how do you stop needing what you naturally need? And if you communicate your Needs but the WS doesn't have it in them to provide them do you finally say okay time to move on or do accept that you must be patient?

I've been reading many threads this morning and I do find inspiration in these posts. I am not alone in my pain, frustration or loss. I would love it if my W would post here and she knows this, but she still feels this is only "MY PLACE", yet another example of how my needs or desires come second to hers. I know that she lurks here, how hard would it be to post if she knows how much it means to me?

Thanks for caring enough to read.

Your comments about "trying" so hard struck a chord in me, because I am alot like that. When I want something in life, hell be damned, I am gonna go get it and everybody better get the hell out of the way. But that approach, alas, does not work where matters of the heart are concerned. In fact, it is usually the recipe for disaster.

I think of the wayward son, when I think of this latest post from you, in terms of your wife and daughter. If you will remember, the Father did not chase after the wayward son, he did not yell, he did not plead, he did not reason, he did not go into town and leave him meals or clothing or extra resources...he just quietly went about his life, with the confidence that his son WOULD come home some day, and he knew he would be there waiting with open arms for him.

I think of that story quite a bit, and I think, gee, how can I apply that to my life. And while I can appreciate that the Father in that story represents God, I think of myself as the father in that story sometimes. I would like to emulate how he quietly trusted, he moved on, without anger, angst, frustration, but a gentle spirit, trusting that it would work out, and that the son would return...

I cannot worry about what WH does. His actions are so out of my control. And Plan A, Plan B, Plan whatever, many of us lose focus of this fact. It is not done to CONTROL your spouse....it is done so you can A.) hopefully do something that will motivate you, and possibly as an offshoot, your spouse, to preserve your marriage, and B.) do something that will make you, whatever the outcome, know you did your best to save something that was so broken...

I have a lot of respect for who you are, what you have done to salvage your marriage. However, as a person who got to exactly where you are, I stepped up and said, ENOUGH, in a highly emotional moment, and did somewhat regret it. I cannot know if I would have had any different of an outcome, but, it does add a little weight to that load of baggage that we all already carry and have to deal with before we can be whole again.

Maybe it takes you stepping back, peacefully, and just quietly getting on with your life. Believing that God will supply your every need...believing that He will bless you, and bless you abundantly, believing that He really does have your every step numbered, and have in mind an awesome plan for you. And resting in the truth of that...

<small>[ October 27, 2004, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: SerendipiT ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SerendipiT:
<strong>
Maybe it takes you stepping back, peacefully, and just quietly getting on with your life. Believing that God will supply your every need...believing that He will bless you, and bless you abundantly, believing that He really does have your every step numbered, and have in mind an awesome plan for you. And resting in the truth of that... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dipit,
Thank you so much for responding. You have no idea how much I appreciate your words. Yes.....I will strive to trust the return of my D and W...I miss them each so much. Each day is a different flavor, I pray when I'm needed to be there where I'm needed most, and I suppose I am.

Thank you.

FamilyMatters -

You have been doing this for so long. I do not blame you for feeling so down right now. You are a strong man and you've endured so much. You love your children more then you love your own life and you'd do anything for them. Let your love for them lead you right now. I hate to think of you so down. You've picked me up so many times. I see you as someone who gives and gives and gives to everyone around you but you rarely take yourself into account.

Step back and look at what's going on and for once think of yourself. You have to do what is right for you. I wish you the best of luck.

Hang in there...regardless of your decision I have no doubt that you will be OK and your children are lucky to have a father like you.

Sending you some {{{{{{{{{MB HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by heroswife:
<strong> FamilyMatters -

You have been doing this for so long. I do not blame you for feeling so down right now. You are a strong man and you've endured so much. You love your children more then you love your own life and you'd do anything for them. Let your love for them lead you right now. I hate to think of you so down. You've picked me up so many times. I see you as someone who gives and gives and gives to everyone around you but you rarely take yourself into account.

Step back and look at what's going on and for once think of yourself. You have to do what is right for you. I wish you the best of luck.

Hang in there...regardless of your decision I have no doubt that you will be OK and your children are lucky to have a father like you.

Sending you some {{{{{{{{{MB HUGS}}}}}}}}}}} </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you so much HW!
Why doesn't my W say such kind words to me?
I could keep going another 10,000 miles if she would just say those words, instead she sits dazed, she lays immobile and fails to see the bigger picture; our family, our children and all of our futures. I wanted so badly to set a positive precedence in my family tree. I truly believed I could stand for something, but I am growing weary. I know that there exists an opportunity for me to experience true appreciation in a R to not feel like I'm pulling or begging for someone to be "WITH" me physically, emotionally or spiritually.

Last night I played in my calming Thunder and Heay Rain CD and I tried my best to quiet my mind. I couldn't help but realize how far away from myself I have gone. During our 2 year separation I lit candles often, I listened to old songs, jazz, old soul records, classical, and I turned on my lava lamps, I even created a "NOOK" a place of pillows, and curtains where I'd lay and let my mind flow with the music and just be happy to be alive. I've somehow lost myself in the pursuit to save my M, once my W agreed to come back I didn't hesitate to change my focus from me and back to us. I wonder was I a fool?


I gave up my separated life because I wanted to be in my M
My W came back to her M hoping it would help her give up her separated life.

There is a big difference between WANTING SOMETHING/SOMEONE and WANTING TO WANT SOMETHING/SOMEONE, my wife feels the latter and I feel the former and it is such a mess.

Where to go from here?

Back seems so far.....
Forward seems so far....


So maybe I'll just rest here for a while and hope my W can be a hero???

FM -

Guilt is a hard thing to swallow. I've read so much since my H had his A. Guilt really drives the WS's decisions when the fog is lifted....and yes I'm sure during the fog. I would think that the guilt and shame alone would make me want to die. I don't know that I could survive seeing the pain on my H's face if the tables were turned.

Having said that I'll say this, I learned that my actions drove my H's actions as well. As long as I was begging and pleading he was pushing me away. When I got to the point where I was like.....he brother you did this not me. I'm out!....he was a totally different person. That time came after exposure to FOW's H. It was that time when I wasn't going to beg anymore or plead anymore. My H was in the floor in a fetal position. I hid the guns in our house because I was terrified he'd use one of them on himself.

Maybe you would do exactly what you discussed earlier. Just do the opposite of what you've been doing. You've already proven you can be understanding and loving and giving and forgiving. Now show that you will look out for yourself too.

You can do this. I know you can. I really think that my ability to show compassion and forgiveness in the beginning helped my H when I said....nope not anymore....before the fog fully lifted.

Chin up Family Matters. Go back and read some of the things you posted to me when I felt like giving up. I think you'll find help in your own posts to me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FamilyMatters:
<strong> ... I want my W, but at this time all she can muster is to be present physically, not romantically, emotionally or spiritually. I sit and watch how she caters to my son ...

My W now sleeps in my daughters bedroom. ...

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First and foremost...{{{{{{{{FM}}}}}}}}}

I cannot begin to fathom what a missing child (voluntary or not) must be doing to you....but that in and of itself is a big enough life crisis to colour your judgment and thought processes...and to lower your patience levels with those around you....
my s is much younger than your d, but I send prayers and much parental energy your way .... and hoping that she finds her way home...

I too, feel at times that I am here, physically present, but void and absent in so many ways...and catering to my son keeps me sane and grounded....

There are so many problems and so much damage, so many hurts, recriminations, guilt, shame, despair...it is easier to focus on the innocent youngster caught up in something he never asked for...

What do you do when your WW comes home, but its only a shell, or a 'partial' version?....wait and hope for an upgrade?...

What do you do when you are the WW that came home and is not 100% there?...and you know it, you feel it, but there is just not anything you feel you can do ..

there is so much fear and doubt...

and intimacy is such a strange thing...here we are, WW's...part of our affairs was intimacy with our OP...now, back with the person we have spent years with and have already shared intimacies with, we find ourselves unable to cross some invisible bridge ...

"I'm hurt, and I'm feeling broken, and there are just some parts of me that I find myself unable to share ...."

maybe I should practice saying that....maybe your wife might feel a little 'broken'...

since I came back to live with mini-dewt and Dewt, mini-dewt has barely spent a night in his own bed....he sleeps in myroom, firmly announcing to us 'parental units' that he was moving into mama's room...

Dewt and I are seperated but co-habitate for now to raise our son and see him through some major autism testing and school/behavioural problems...as such, we each have our own room...

I feel like I have a "safe space".....a place just for me (well, when mini isn't in it..lol)...after a 5 month seperation, much of it solitary for me, I found being thrust back into the chaos of 'family life' was overwhelming...I felt and feel guilty for craving and needing silent time...just somewhere to go to satisfy the flight response coursing through me...suddenly being the center of my son's universe was double-edge sword...draining, but heart-filling, at the same time...

There is so little in me....I feel as if I have been held captive by vampires...soul energy vampires, or something....

Dewt could post to you and say so many of the same things, as I believe he could commiserate greatly with you on several of these issues...

Maybe it is just a 'lonely place' feeling some WS's get...

I understand too, about the difference between WANTING to WANT and actually WANTING.....

Dewt WANTS, I WANT to WANT....

patience is a virtue.....it is just very scarce, at times, I know...

{{{{{{FM}}}}}}}}}
Hang in there! I'm wishing you luck and keeping you in my prayes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by soulloss:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FamilyMatters:
<strong> ... I want my W, but at this time all she can muster is to be present physically, not romantically, emotionally or spiritually. I sit and watch how she caters to my son ...

My W now sleeps in my daughters bedroom. ...

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First and foremost...{{{{{{{{FM}}}}}}}}}

I cannot begin to fathom what a missing child (voluntary or not) must be doing to you....but that in and of itself is a big enough life crisis to colour your judgment and thought processes...and to lower your patience levels with those around you....

I too, feel at times that I am here, physically present, but void and absent in so many ways...and catering to my son keeps me sane and grounded....


Maybe it is just a 'lonely place' feeling some WS's get...

I understand too, about the difference between WANTING to WANT and actually WANTING.....

Dewt WANTS, I WANT to WANT....

patience is a virtue.....it is just very scarce, at times, I know... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you so much for your response and your kind words. I pray every day for my D to come home safely and I also pity the man who would violate her, I've been getting disturbing news, very sad rumors from one of my D's runaway friends who recently returned home with a venereal disease and reports of staying with a man over 30+ years...Lord help me!!!


Back to my M CRISIS:
My W has spoke of this guilt and tiring shame that she feels. I only wished she would be able to articulate her feelings to me more often. Its so easy, too easy to self impose her actions onto myself, a if I'm causing them or I can control her own feelings about herself, silly huh? I am as supportive as I can be, and sometimes I feel if it weren't for me bursting after being rejected from sheer frustation, if I could just suffer her indifference quietly we would perhaps recover more rapidly. I don't suppose my W is afraid to discuss her feelings, unless they are still hinged on OM, but my W has always been somewhat reluctant with her words. I ask her a question and instead of answering instantly she starts to think and weigh her reaction, I HATE THIS WEIGHING OF RESPONSES AND THE CRAFTY CHOOSING OF WORDS, IT SEEMS SO MANIPULATIVE AND CONNIVING. I would much rather she slice me with a truthful blade than to clumsily pick and choose words that might suit her agenda. Be honest. I'd much rather hear truth than well intentioned lies. Well-intentioned lies are how we got to this wreck of a M to begin with...*sigh


Oh the Wants and the Want to Want....
I'm glad you understand my sitch. I want to hang in there, I do not want to quit, but something tells me quitting at least for now is the best thing. If I keep pulling and hoping and expecting and searching I will surely run out of love for my W, but if I move on now maybe when she is more herself she can do some pursuing, some real work, some persuading, no one persuades like the sexy, committed mother of your children...*sigh

We shall see huh?

Thanks for responding Mrs. Dewt!!!!!!!!

hey FM remember me?i am sorry you seem so stressed lately. i cant tell you what to do, but i know you have done one hell of a plan a.your wife seems so lost, i hope she finds her way back to you and to happier times.i dont know about plan b, i dont think i could do it, but i agree with weaver. if what your doing isnt working, try doing the opposite. i also hope your d comes home soon. you and yours are in my prayers.

All I really want to do is give a big hug really. It's all.. know that I imagine it and (((((((big hug)))))) If you have friends..... go out with them.. enjoy yourself a bit FM.. take yourself out of the situation... I know you're not the type to just want to run away....but sometimes a little escape won't be so bad.. Take care.