I asked my W last night if she had told OM that she was ready to work on the M. She said that she had not. I then mentioned that I saw him yesterday -- it was the first time since DDay. My W said that she was ready to not "be reminded of it (the A) all the time."

I asked if me asking about whether or not she had told OM about her intent to work on the M bothered her. She said that it didn't, but that my comment about seeing OM did. I apologized and said that this was not how I meant it. I just knew that she was worried about us running into each other since we both work for the same company.

How can I talk about the A without her feeling "beat up"? She's mentioned before that she thinks I try to punish her by the things that I say and that she wishes sometimes that she hadn't told me that she was in love with OM. She says she thinks that part of it may be her feeling guilty as well. I feel a need to bring some things up just to talk about how I'm feeling or to explain something. How can I do this without her feeling threatened?

NYKOn- Shortly after my DD I did not want my husband to be talking about it , it seemed, 24-7. It really made me uncomfortable to talk about it. We need some "space" so we can sort our emotions, and if the talk is only about the affair, we feel overwhelmed and I could not think clearly. After DD, I did not "close the door" completely with the OM. I was evasive with him, giving him some kind of "false hope:" for us. I did not want to hurt him, and wanted to let go off him slowly. I know now thats not the way to dothings. Just a little over two months ago, I completey closed the door, and the OM knows for sure its over between us. He has not try contact again! Neither have I!!
Your wife needs to sort her feelings, her shame, her love for you, for the OM,etc,etc.
Try not to talk so much about the affair, let her be the one that starts and you will get much better results.
My humble oppinion!
Myrta

I have got to give you alot of credit for wanting to stick around and wait. I cannot imagine your pain with her not knowing if she wants to be with you or the OM. I wish I had your strength, things might be easier for me. My WW had a ONS and calls me relentlessly, in hysterics, crying uncontrollably that she is sorry and will do anything to get me back, but I just dont have your strength. I commend you and prey that she will come to her senses and see what kind of man you are. Only a man with a TRUE love could be that strong. Hang in there, I am praying for you.

Myrta,

I try not to bring this up very often -- if at all. The last time anything was brought up, she initiated it. I think I said something like "Since you are in love with him, it will be hard to stop talking to him." (I can't remember exactly).

Last night, however, I did bring it up. I just want her to stop talking to him and tell him that it's over. They will still work together for a while -- they work in the same department. I'm trying for baby steps. Anyway, this is why I had asked if she told him that she wants to work on the M. Is it the fact that I bring it up in the first place? Maybe there isn't a tactful way to talk about this right now?

Shell-of-a-man,

Thanks for the encouragement. I would definitely appreciate any and all prayers. I can only say that what strength I have, comes from God. I never thought that I would be able to endure this, but I love my wife and I love myself. I'm doing it for me just as much as my wife. I never really experienced God's presence in my life like I have the past couple of months. Thanks again. My thoughts and prayers go out to you too.

Ditto rykon. I feel the same way. Kinda holds us in an emotional limbo, doesn't it.

Rykon,
I also read your post about her claim about the cell phone being private -- Radical Honesty - How to prevent A's -- Her position on cell phone: Clear & Present Danger!! You don't want to LB, but this does not mean you have to be SO Nieve & a doormat!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I have been away on a cruise with my lady. Yea Mon! There can be a much better relationship ahead ... for you. Please do not loose hope - for YOU!! You are a worthy person & what she is doing to you is her problem, you do not deserve this!! There can be light at the end of the tunnel, either by working through your current relationship and I know that is your current preference ... or sometimes despite our best efforts, we have to sometimes come to the reality that it is best to end the current & start a new--emotionally at first. I believe you need to prepare yourself for the later possibility. When you accept that potential I belive it will allow you more freedom to acr responisibile & who knows maybe win her back.
I heard it said that an ending is actually a new beginning. I know that when I was in your situation I did not want to give up. Sometimes I wonder why I wanted to stay in a relationship that was not healthy for me. For one thing, no matter how bad it was, it was something I was familiar with. The fear of the unknown can be paralyzing.

If you think about it; it is not natural (or healthy!) to stay in a relationship where your partner does not respect you & treats you badly. Being treated badly can be defined by you. When you define for your partner what being treated means to YOU and they continue to treat in the same manner; this is not in accordance with what a healthy relationship is all about – DAH!!! The idea of “Unconditional” love to me at least, applies mostly to a relationship between parents and children & our higher power. For us to keep reinforcing our love for someone that does not return it, well, if you step back & look at this objectively, it is unnatural & not healthy! Why would the person change? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> We “Enable” the person to continue on their own merry way. I believe this actually re-enforces their disrespectful attitude towards us! Many times the WS I believe, deep down cannot believe we put up with as much as we do – they may even have strong feeling that if the roles were reversed they would not be so tolerant. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

One thing that helped me, in addition to the people & philosophies here, was a 12 step support program, group. When you are involved with someone that is obsessed or addicted to something (s) it interferes with a normal give & take relationship. The addicted person has secrets and they can be very manipulative and controlling. The "co-dependent -- opposite of Independent" (that would be me & you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> becomes obsessed with the issues surrounding the addicted person – wanted to fix them. The first step is to admit that we are powerless over these issues –- you have to admit that you have a problem. You are defining your happiness around another person in whom you have no control over & their actions say that they don't care about our feelings all that much! This is a problem!! I had a very difficult time processing this! It becomes too much for you to handle. You have to drop to your knees in a sense and give it up to a higher power. … My Prayers are with you brother! Let Go, Let God ... He loves you, man!!

I actually went to two support groups. The first one was for partners (me) that had partners with a specific problem. Every one in the group shared a similar problem with thier partners. I went to this regularly for a year & a half or so. The second group was for C0-Dependents, in general – I attended this only a few times. Both programs followed the exact same principles of a 12 step recovery process. Like Alonon. There were some in this later group that were in an abusive relationship. Make no mistake, verbal & emotional abuse is just as destructive as physical. In fact I have heard it said that the most devastating part of physical abuse is the resulting emotional scares. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

What your DW is doing or “not doing” in IMHO is abusive. She is saying certain things at different times to indicate that she wants to work on the M – Like when she was away on business with the OM – But in the final analysis, not committing to the M by executing a no contact rule with OM – She has to at least change departments! Otherwise it is like she is addicted to this OM. ??

BTW, the way you described your dialogue with your DW with the comment about her loving him, sounded rather cynical – Love Bust if you will. But I cannot blame you. This is what Coffee man was referring to. After a while it is somewhat natural for some resentment to BUILD UP!! But her comment about not talking about the A is Bull! If you are going to repair the marriage it has to be addressed. Of course she does not want to talk about it. Too much focus on her bad behavior – it come with the territory!

Having said all of this, here is my point. One principle with these Co-Dependent programs is that you have to re-program your thinking to accept the fact that you need to NOT build your well-being around this other person. You have to “Detach” … with LOVE, is what they say. If you think about it; this correlates with Harley’s principles and Dobson -- Remember the Giver & Taker. In conflict the taker takes over, right? Currently she is taking & you are giving. Your DW knows how much you want the M to work & it seems that you will bend with the wind & allow her lots of freedoms, like she is in control as to whether or not the M will work – She is defining how it will work. Why? Think about business negations. If one party knows that the other is not that committed to their (different) position, what incentive does the first person have to give in to the other's position (I.E. - cake & eat it too). Ultimately, there is no negotiation -- "We'll do this how ever you want dear" ...?? The trick is not to be disrespectful. This is hard I know because the no-committed person is not following the same rules -- they can become real disrespectful - push our buttons to get their own way -- they feel justified to get their own way; remember, their "Taker" is in control. Maybe you start with identifying the rules of engagement - fair negotiations -- But again, if your DW is used to getting her way, she may take the position of non-cooperation -- having your cake & eat it too is very selfish, but for many, they adopt the philosophy that if we give them that, they have every right to take it! Or if you are playing cards & the other person knows the cards you are holding, you have no ability to bluff for example. I am getting back to the Dobson concept. I believe we have to let the tiger out of cage – if it leaves then it was not ours to begin with. If it comes back, then we have something! I believe it is human nature sometimes to take what is so easily obtainable for Granted!

I remember you talking about you MC & that person was giving your DW a month to decide about OM – It seems that time is about up, right? The goal is work on the marriage & despite what your DW says, her A, the OM is in direct conflict – Dah! But you can’t force it & by just asking her, well that is not working, right? Actions speak louder than words – she is proving that. I believe it is time for you to change some of your actions. The concept of 180 degrees can be helpful & I believe close to the concepts I am trying to suggest.

I ramble ... Take what you like & leave the rest.
Focus on what is good for you, you deserve it!!Peace be with you,
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
HH

rykon, have you read "Surviving an Affair," "Torn Assunder," or "Not Just Friends?"

Each of these books have sections that you and your partner can go through together, to begin the healing process. We all know that healing is painful. It is painful to cleanse out a wound, put on the salve, and wait for it to all heal over. To some extent, your wife will need to come to terms that her fantasy, her "bubble of wonderful feelings," is GONE forever. So, she is going from the "bubble of wonderful feelings," to a very stark reality in which she seems to be facing the ugliness of her own guilt at each and every turn.

It is my belief, that the WS hurts themselves more than the BS is hurt by their self-destructive behavior. Her A was all about HER. Unfortunately, you probably rarely, if ever, entered her mind. She was in pain about something, and instead of reaching out to you to help sooth herself, she did the equivalent of getting hooked on a "drug" to ease her pain/unhappiness/whatever. She still has to come to terms with the reason(s) she chose that behavior, not to mention dealing with all the damage she created everywhere else.

I know it seems like an unfair burden of understanding/compassion/holding-back is placed on you as the BS. I can only tell you that by showing these traits, following both the MB and the SYMC programs, my own marriage has recovered, and I have been paid DIVIDENDS for my efforts. AND, in the process, I learned to love somebody for ALL that they are - the good, the bad, and the ugly. I learned to love someone without expecting that love back in return - I learned to love my H KNOWING he was incapable of returning that love.

I suggest using books and/or articles to guide you through the choppy waters of A talk. The nature of the WS is to ALWAYS want to not remember in detail that acts that caused so much pain to so many people. Even after 7 months of recovery, my H about 3 weeks ago shouted out, "Do we have to talk about FOW? Will I be haunted by her forever? Will I ever be free of this?" He was venting his frustration. Probably his unresolved guilt.

Hold on tight, rykon! They don't call it a rollercoaster for no reason!!!

Spidey

rykon
I have to say that I don't think your ww is near wanting to stop contact, I dont think she has got that far yet.
She is still in contact with OM, she has not told him its over, she has not said NC except for dual presance of others at work, ergo she is still in the affair. YES its still going on.

SHe needs to be in NC and if that means leaving her job then she has to change jobs. She needs to commit to working on the M and I dont beleive she is there yet.
She is being a 'cakewoman' I'm sorry to say.

There is NO way to discuss this issue nicely, its not a nice issue. It HURTS, its PAINFUL, its DEGRADING and I could go on for ever. But it is.

Her comments to you are classic avoidance, who would know better than one who used it, and so similar to things I said.

You need to read PLAN A & B here and some of the books and start using the methods they describe.
As contact is still ongoing you need to up the ante if it doesn't stop like NOW & start exposing the affair to the world. Does her company have a morals clause in the employment contract or HR policy, many do. Thats a start. IS the OM married or have a girlfriend?? Again expose! I think you might have to here.

If you do this know she will say a lot of things like 'its over' etc etc because she will be angry you are exposing her fantasy to the world. Just expect that as part of the deal.
Then you need to go on as per Plan A.

Nothing may work of course but Plan A & B has a good track record.

Read and take action.

AussiesWife,

I really wish that OM had a W. He went through a divorce earlier this year. Which I think contributed to the A.

I have contacted our HR department at work with a "hypothetical" question. They said that they can't answer my question without specific information, but generally, they do not get involved in what employees do outside of the company. However, they did mention that I should talk to my HR rep.

I have exposed this to a few friends from church and our pastor. I haven't talked to her parents yet -- at the advice of my own IC and Steve Harley. If I do go to plan B, I will need to talk to them so that they will know why I won't be seeing them -- we're pretty close as they live just one street over from us. My IC suggested saying something to the effect of "We're having a hard time in our marriage right now. I want to work on this and have been talking with IC about the issues. I can't stay with your daughter until she decides to do the same and work through these issues with me."

Basically, don't give them the details about what's happened, just what's going on. I have a feeling that they will suspect -- her mom is pretty intuitive. If they ask me what's going on, and her mom will, I'll just tell her that they will need to talk to their daughter to get details.

I had a talk with her last night -- she asked if there was something that I wanted to talk about. I told her that I didn't know how much longer I could last like this. I said that I didn't feel like she was wanting to work on the M since she hasn't told OM about NC. She said that they haven't talked at all and that it was "implied".

We got to talking and she became upset that I would even imply that she should quit her job. She said that she would only end up resenting me which would cause more problems for our M. She asked me what I wanted her to do. I said:

</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tell OM that you want to work on our M and that you can't talk together anymore.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Start IC...</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...then start MC.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
She tells me that she just hasn't had any time to set up an appt. with IC. I told her that it took me 5 minutes to do. She says that she's been so busy she "even forgot to mail a bill." I told her that this didn't make me feel much better. I said that I feel like she is putting her career in front of me and our M.

She says that she still feels beat up that we talk about this. But she said that if I would acknowledge the positive things she's been doing -- spending more time with me -- and then tell her what I want her to do, it would be much easier. She says that she can't continue to feel bad about herself all of the time.

Maybe I should avoid talking about the M and A altogether until she brings it up, but I don't know if it will ever get brought up that way. She talks about working towards the adoption we were working on pre-A. She talks about our future together -- how we'll work the taxes after the adoption, things like that -- but, she doesn't want to acknowledge that we have a huge elephant in our living room (metaphorically speaking of course) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I feel like she just wants to decorate the elephant instead of getting it out of our living room.

Well, that's my rant for the day. Am I just focussing too much on the A and my pain and not enough on what she's doing?

If Steve Harley is advising then I guess you are getting some the best around.

Thought from my understanding he is reluctant to do MC while the WS is still in contact so that may hold things up for you I guess.
I still have big doubts about her contact with OM rykon. Her avoidance of the subject is pretty telling. It’s not as if the subject of contact ‘itself’ is about the affair, rather actions now after the affair is supposed to be over. Maybe you should talk to Steve over this one

But you know something you posted that your ww said to you about 'not having the time' etc etc I have to admit to the same excuses because that’s what they were you know. ANYTHING to avoid the issue.

With the NC thing, ok I get her position on it's taken for granted there will be no more contact - don't mind if I smile a bit I hope - Pls don't fall for that old one rykon. Ok bright idea here she has no time right? Well ok then, what about you copying a few of the NC letters you see here on the board and in the info areas and doing a simple straight forward one for her? Then she can read it & sign it and you can post it for her. See? all done!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Seriously though, & I do think you can do above & see what the reaction is, I really understand her not wanting to leave the job. I don't WANT to either. However I have to be able to change me quickly enough to keep my M or change the circumstances of my employment where the affair happened.
I LOVE my job and yes I think it SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS that he gets to do what he wants and I don't !! (Opps forgive for the vent rykon) However as my MC told me, quite exasperated with me I think at the time, "this is ONE of the prices I pay for having an affair. You don't get a out of jail card for free my girl!! "
Did you think I wanted to hear that? So its a price I will pay for MY actions. He has made no demand but asks that I do it. So we are doing a compromise, I stay in the Department but in another job, all I have to do now is win one. I’m trying now and have an interview this week. There’s no danger of OM as he & his family left and went to another state.
SO maybe your wife has to see that too. Maybe not yet but a little down the track I do hope so because without NC how can you move forward? Every time she sees OM she’ll be back to stage one. I feel she is just setting herself up for failure.

As for “always’ bringing the subject up, well I admit to being sick of it too and I really just wanted him to ‘get over it’ . He REALLY bugged me asking, asking, asking!!.
Pretty foolish of course but that’s the way I was thinking. Of course I wouldn’t mind if he suddenly did just get over it!! Mmmmm no response I see.

Our MC suggested a solution. Set aside 30 minutes each day where we can & will discuss the issues of the affair then CEASE. It helped to defuse a few real difficult discussions. We even use a kitchen timer just to remind us to finish. When we are going well we ignore it but if things get a bit tense it’s a good out.
Aussie also thanks me for things now. Cooking a meal, washing, ironing, just little things to make sure I know he sees me doing them and values me. It really helps me not feel like something stuck on the bottom of someone’s boot because my ego is scrapping the bottom and he knows that.

As I said before, you BS just amaze me with your love and patience. Just keep it going rykon and lets hope your ww will be FWW very soon. Then you can start to rebuild.

Interestingly, I learned from my wonderfil SIL on Saturday that Squid is far more open and talkative to HER than to me. SIL gave her several verbal kickings during and after the affair.

Latest one SIL tells me had her telling Squid :
" What the hell did you think you were doing ? Have you gone stupid? What was that old wastrel going to do for your kids ? How were you going to live ? Were you going to grow tomatoes in teh bullsh1t he told you ? " etc etc

She says a shame faced Squid replied:
" I know...I know...I have NO IDEA what I thought I was doing...It was beyind stupid, Oh God Sis how can Bob ever forgive me?"

Etc etc

What can't she talk to me like that ? I won't give her a verbal kicking either ?

Nice to hear she appreciates her postion now and that even if she doesn't think OM is the jerk of the century yet, she thinks the A was a very regrettable thing to do indeed.

Its a pity I have to hear this stuff second had though.

I gotta say SIL hugged me like her life depended on it Saturday when I affirmed that 'our' Squid was back from the Alien mothership. She said she thought I was the bravest, strongest most loving man she'd ever known and Squid should thank God for me.
What a girl. Her cro-magnon husband thinks I'm weak because I didn't kick her out but SIL disagrees. NICE to get praise from a person in my flesh family, in addition to my cyber family here ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

At least Squids talking about it to SOMEONE. Thats a good start. I can wait we're only eight weeks from no contact and day to day life is far from bad.

Any more wise words from FWS how to promote discussion though would be very welcome, thanks !

rykon,

Perhaps you should talk to your WW about agreeing in setting a day and a time [1/2 to 1 hour]each week to talk about nothing but the affair. I know this may sound unfair to you, but if she realizes that you will not bringing up the affair any time you feel like it, she might be more able to feel emotionally safe when the day and time arrives to talk about it. You also might want to convey to her that if she does feel the need to talk about something related to the affair during any day of the week, that by all means she should feel free do so and that you will give her your undivided attention. The point in all of this is for you to help create an emotional safe environment where she will feel safe in expressing her deepests thougts and feelings on everything, including the affair.

Rykon,
I just wanted to say that I have read the posts & concur with what everyone has said -- I especially appriciate the insights from the ladies -- very good to get their perspective! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
In defense of WW's -- I concur that they don't have it easy! -- I would not say they have it worse than the BS - Depends I suppose on each situtation & we would not want to generalize!
In talking about no contact & the idea of changing departments, but staying with same company; I can say that in my case my X was quite promisiciuos with at least two different guys -- in our home, as well as at the motel! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I believe there is a very good possibility she had ONS with OM as well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Cannot confirm that! - I know she was looking for it when she would be out of town with her younger divorced cousins --- But here is my point --After a brief plan B - (which BTW, in retrospect was way too short - I was being real stupid about some things then --way too anxious to get her back! Again in Retrospect! Review Dobson's book some more! I had sent her back home- 350 miles away), after I took her back, I do not believe she had any contact with these two guys -I can't say for sure, but I honetly don't think she had any Contact during that period. -But We decided to Divorce around the first of Nov. -- 2001 -- I know by phone records that on new years day she was talking with the original tree trimmer guy -- I moved out Jan. 3, 2002 - I went by her place a couple times on weekends early in the morning & the tree trimmer's truck was there. My point is that it did not take her long to re-connect with OM! -- I believe that with the intimacy, even if there is no NC for a period of time, that with an opportunity, it does not take much to get things going again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> In your case, one little conference away from home & look out!!
Like one of the ladies said - there is a price for her mistakes!! To save the M and help you develop any level of trust agin, she will have to doscuss this and establish ways to give you confidence. No matter how bad you were or how much she may try to justify (or blame you for whatever), what she did was her deal, you did not force her into the OM arms!! She made her bed ... as they say. I agree that you do have to be careful though & not leash out at her with your resentment. But that does not mean you should become her doormat and do everything according to her way!!
I would get an agreement from her as to how long it will be before you guys go to the couple's C. I would imagine that will be the more difficult for her to handle.
I would definately go with the advice you are getting from your C & Harley! They are the professionals!! Do I recall correctly that you have a MC & that person was giving your DW a month to establish NC? Isn't that time up?
Keep hangin in!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
HH

<small>[ November 08, 2004, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</small>

Rykon,
I was listening to James Dobson on the radio this morning on the way to work. He was discussing the important of Confidence <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> in a relationship ... he made reference to the book. He made a sports analogy of when a player is at their best it is when they are feeling confident <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> - that is what develops momemtum as an example.
He stated that in a marriage when one partner starts to stray - does not say the loving things and does not spend time as much; the other partner may sense they are loosing this partner (in a sense panic or try too hard)& may react with less than positive jestures or attitudes that are not appealing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> In the dating game (which is what U R doing in trying to win back her love), we have to have a good "game face" - (my words)! We would NOT expect to win someone's attention if we were in the midst of a Self-Pity Party, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> as an example. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Sound familar? ... Plan A.
Difficult tight rope walk, I Know!
Hope you are hangin in! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Peace,
HH

Rykon,
I was thinking …we talk about being appealing & keeping up our confidence, as if we are in the dating game; & we are in that mode when we are attempting to win back the attention of a WS. This to me can be very confusing, when at the same time if the spouse has been, or is currently in an A, this is dramatic & would be cause for a crises, if you will. I think it would be very strange in fact & of course very “enabling” if we were to treat it as if nothing occurred. I doesn’t makes any sense at all to just sweep it under the rug & try to pretend that it did not happen! This I know is what the WS would like to happen. It is natural for us to sometimes go to extremes to protect our own self-image, as well as what other’s may think. When the A is exposed, the WS will naturally want to de-emphasize it & justify their bad behavior. I believe that for some people it is more difficult than for others to accept the responsibility of what they did & how wrong it was!

Have you known people that just do not react well to any form of criticism, where they will get very active in to rationalize, and blame others to justify their actions that caused the criticism – I am describing a person that just has an extremely difficult time in admitting that they made any kind of a mistake-- in fact they just don’t ever admitt to making a mistake on their own. Perhaps your DW may be a little like this? This trait, I believe would make the recovery process very difficult (to this kind of person it almost seems that for them, what they did was no big deal)and may explain a reluctance on her part to get started. In my case for example, my X admitted that she was verbally & emotionally abusive towards me in our 32 years of marriage, but I do not ever recall my X telling me she was sorry for anything she did or how badly she ever treated me. In the few times we went to MC she adopted the attitude that my recovery was my problem & she was not interested in helping or participating. Many people here agreed that she had some Narcissistic tendencies – This is not a good thing!!!

We want to be committed to our wedding vows and all of course, but when one partner is not honoring those vows, this has to change the dynamics of the relationship!! As an example, I believe it is very common in dating situations that if one partner strays, it creates a conflict in the relationship! If a couple are married does this make it more acceptable? If you act as if nothing happened and there is no consequences for her actions, I believe this sets a very dangerous precedence that only re-enforces her lack of respect & will in essence, enable her to continue with poor actions towards you. At the same time, we uinderstand that you cannot be demanding. You cannot force her to comply with your wishes. This is where the cool, almost indifferent approach can be effective. I definitely think that as a BS, we can appear to be too eager to please & acquiesce – I believe it is important to try & create an atmosphere of GIVE & TAKE – a balance, if you will. You are willing to bend some to meet her needs of course, but I believe it is very dangerous if it is only you that is bending!! You will eventually reach a stage of major RESENTMENT!!

What your DW is putting you through is not fair; that is, in how most people define a healthy marital relationship. She is in essence asking you to modify your defination of a normal relationship – you however cannot force her to do anything. But does this mean you have to accept her definations of your relationhsip? Of course not. You just have to be gentleman about this! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Peace be with you!
HH

HH and Aussieswife,

I appreciate the feedback! Still nothing from her on either front. We're taking a trip this weekend and she says that she's hoping to "feel that spark". I don't want to ruin this weekend, but I don't know how much longer I can keep this up.

I have/had so many dreams for our future together, it just hurts to think that I may need to say goodbye to all of those dreams. I don't think I could handle there being contact again. If there is, I am going to turn up the heat a bit. I do want to expose this to her parents -- who have a very strong influence on her. I'm meeting with our HR department here at work this morning to ask some questions. I don't want anyone to get fired, but if someone were transferred, that would be fine.

We had a good time talking last night. Although, she's making jokes and I'm hurting inside. I keep wondering if she's in a good mood because she has talked to OM.

I'm also going to write a letter to OM a la SaveMyMarriageCentral. If she gets upset about this, I figure that they must be talking still, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I keep trying to pace myself, but it's hard not talking about it. It's hard not asking her what the hell she's doing. What does she have up her sleeve? Does this get better? I've heard that the 6th month after DDay, things tend to get easier for the BS, emotionally speaking. Is that true? I'm on AD and I'm thinking about going back to my Dr. and asking her to up the dose a bit.

Maybe I'm just trying to sprint and I'm frustrated because I'm needing to stay in "mosey" mode for a while.

Rykon,

You are doing the right thing in not putting pressure on her because you cannot force her to give up the OM if she doesn't want to. You've already stated to her that if her contact with the OM continues that eventually you will lose all love for her and that you won't want to continue being married to her. One thing I would like for you to consider is to expand your range of activities so you can achieve a degree of emotional independence or detachment that will help you weather this difficult time in your life. If you do this you'd be sending a clear message to your WW that you don't need her to survive and that you will make it no matter what the outcome of your marriage is. Stop chasing her and let her chase you for a change. Please read Dr Robert Huizenga's 7 Powerful Tactics to Break Free From The Affair and Stop it NOW!; 12 Unattractive, Ugly, Typical Tact...he Affair and Guarantee Their Own Misery; and Michelle Weiner Davis's Divorce Busting 180 Degree List for ways to achieve this emotional independence. No amount of words on your part will convince your WW about your changes, but your actions certainly will.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong> Rykon,

You are doing the right thing in not putting pressure on her because you cannot force her to give up the OM if she doesn't want to. You've already stated to her that if her contact with the OM continues that eventually you will lose all love for her and that you won't want to continue being married to her. One thing I would like for you to consider is to expand your range of activities so you can achieve a degree of emotional independence or detachment that will help you weather this difficult time in your life. If you do this you'd be sending a clear message to your WW that you don't need her to survive and that you will make it no matter what the outcome of your marriage is. Stop chasing her and let her chase you for a change. Please read Dr Robert Huizenga's 7 Powerful Tactics to Break Free From The Affair and Stop it NOW!; 12 Unattractive, Ugly, Typical Tact...he Affair and Guarantee Their Own Misery; and Michelle Weiner Davis's Divorce Busting 180 Degree List for ways to achieve this emotional independence. No amount of words on your part will convince your WW about your changes, but your actions certainly will. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TooMuchCofeeMan,
Very Well Put!! You are still the man! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Rykon,
Hang in there man. What CoffeeMan stated I concur with & wholehearted agree with & support!!
One of the basic priniciples of the support group in which I participated was to NOT focus on your partner, but YOU. If you change & show that are de-tached emotionally - not such a "Co-Dependent" To reifiorce CoffeMan's message - it is your actions in showing her your ability to cope just fine & your strength, this will more likely get her attention!!
Actions do speak a lot louder than words! It works if you work it ... so work it!
Hang in there man!!
Peace,
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
HH

I asked W about it. She said that she is going to talk with OM about ending things.

I told her that I was uncomfortable about it and that I wished she would do it in an email or a letter. I asked her if she promised that this was set up to end things and she said that she promised.

She asked me if I wanted her to cancel the meeting and I said that I would rather it be done in an email or letter, but I respected her wish. I asked her to respect my wish that no door was to be left opened and that this was to end things. She said "That's fair."

I asked if it was going to be at work and she said that they were going to grab a conference room. She also asked me for the number to IC and said that we should set up a meeting with MC as soon as she has had her first IC session.

I told her that my pain has made me pressure her to make appointment with IC and that I wanted her to make the appt. when she is ready. She says that she's not happy right now and wants to find out why. So she feels that she needs to see IC.

I'm hopefully cautious yet again -- or am I cautiously hopeful? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rykon:
<strong>
...
She says that she's not happy right now and wants to find out why. So she feels that she needs to see IC.

I'm hopefully cautious yet again -- or am I cautiously hopeful? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rykon,
I remember you telling us that she told you somethong like that she felt really good because she had two great guys interested in her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> She is probablly depressed having to make decisons to end it & also, she may be feeling depressed about what she has done - afraid of being exposed. ?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
I can understand that you would prefer that she write a letter - email -- that is what is prescribed here, right? This has to be frustrating. She has clearly been the villian with her inappropiate behavior with the A, yet she seems to discounting your views and doing everything "her" way. Which is likely not the correct way. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
I remember a story of a few years ago where the WW kept having several "break-up" meeting - it just kept getting drug out - I don't know if it ever happened in that case.
Are you still talking with IC - and Harley?
What do you think about the idea's Coffeman and I suggested about working on you & your attitude - approach - becoming more independent?
For your emotional safety, I think it makes sense to try and not put your WW in the center of everything that makes you happy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Like Dobson suggests, this could actually end up making you more appealing!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Peace be with you!

Work on yourself - you are worth it!!