I have lurked on this board for over two years. I hesitate to post, since I feel vulnerable when I do. However, this past week has had me wanting to post.

First, I am neither BS or WS - technically. To my shame, I am a WS in thought; to my everlasting thankfulness, I am not a WS in deed.

I came to the board feeling like a BS. My husband had ignored/minimized/neglected me since the day we were married. My honeymoon was emotionally horrible for me.

I am a survivor of sexual, emotional and verbal abuse, and in many ways I felt I deserved the treatment he gave me because I was such a "nasty" person. I never learned the skills to confront, nor did I ever know how to put forth my needs in a manner that would cause people to want to fill them. I'm still struggling day by day with this.

After a time of lurking, I began to believe that the only way I could be fulfilled would be to have an affair. Yes. The BS's pain was palpable. The sadness seemed overwhelming. Yet, the WS's seemed to have at least had something fulfilled in them at some time. I began to plot and plan how I could have an affair. I thought of the men in my life. Rejected who I thought wouldn't go along with it, tried to figure out who would. A good friend of mine said she'd help me look for a good man. I actually PRAYED for an affair! Me, a fundamental Christian who lost two groups of friends because I wouldn't support on-going affairs.

That's what stopped me I think. I could only think of one friend who would chastise me, and her opinion meant a lot to me.

So I bought HNHN. I confessed to this friend, to my husband and to Penny at SYMC. Penny was kind to me, but she minced no words in telling me how foolish I was being.

The uproar on the board in the last couple of days have brought home to me how very very foolish I was/am to think an affair could do ANYTHING but harm.

I have always identified more with the BS on the board than the WS. I felt my husband betrayed me. He neglected our marriage. He would not even admit that my needs were valid. He was becoming more and more violent. He called me terrible names. He scared our children more than once.

So I felt justified. Why shouldn't I get something to make me feel good? My word. This week has opened my eyes to the FOG I was in. Lands.

I appreciate everyone's postings. Sometimes I don't agree. Sometimes I get exasperated. Sometimes I think some one is full of it. I love the way Noodle expresses herself. Somehow it hits home to me. I like Star's balance. I like Melody Lane's forthrightness (even though I cringe sometimes at it - sorry Mel) It's hard to see the WS perspective, but it is necessary. I like to see the light dawning on both WS & BS. I feel for the newly betrayed. I feel for the WS who has newly broken off a relationship.

I'm certainly not perfect. I oftentimes expect people to treat me a certain way, and I think that's why it's hard for me to post on a public forum. It doesn't always flow the way I want it to.

But, I'll keep lurking. I, for one, am not going to be able to stop.

God bless us all -

Nanci

Nanci,


thanks for sharing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SM....

Nothing I say can "help" you; nothing I say will "influence" you; you are already recovering yourself. ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

I honestly don't "want" to--not because I don't "want" to--but you didn't ask.

However, I did "just" want to thank you for sharing your POV and story. Thank you for being human and sharing.

Best wishes.

LINY

LINY: Hum. Didn't think of it that way. I didn't ask for any help, did I?

The purpose of my post wasn't necessarily to garner help. I am disturbed by the lingering upset, I guess.

I've been writing & re-writing things in my head for 2 days now. Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Thanks,
Nanci

Hi,
Thanks for letting us get to know you a little bit.

Perhaps we are related - I see we have part of our name in common.

Please tell us more about yourself.

How do you cope with things from day to day?

How did you get the courage to come and post when you have been hurt so badly for so long?

Where are you now, that is, where do you want to go from here?

SS

FL: I didn't say so before, but thank you for responding to me.

SS: Maybe we are related. I tried to take your name when I first signed on. LOL

I've been questioning myself all day as to why I had the courage to post today - of all days. The uproar really threw me for a loop, made me examine why I had such strong feelings - on both sides.

I didn't read the entire thread by DC, but somehow did read Noodle's response. I honestly don't want to offend anyone, but the truth is I could so understand what she was saying. Nothing she said was worse than what I thought about myself. Poor self image? Probably. But I literally cringe to myself every time I remember how I whinned to someone about how an affair would be so wonderful. I even was indignant that Penny wouldn't explore that thought with me further. Ugh. What a foolish child I was.

The reactions of most of the people on the board were so hard for me. I tried to explain/explore it with my husband, but my thoughts rarely translate into words that others can understand. Both sides of the argument hurt.

It surprised me that Star* would make the blanket comment she did. It surprised me that so many people were offended by Noodle's post. It surprised me that such offense was taken. It surprised me that so very many WS wanted to leave, saying that NO BS could be supportive.

I don't know why I was so surprised. I think that's why I posted.

I felt such relief when Noodle responded so calmly (My opinion. I don't think I could have done that. I really do admire it.) I felt even more relief to see Star* responses on that thread. I had many more reactions to all the other posts, but those two stick out in my mind the most.

I'm trying to explore why/how I feel. But, because I know I have a tendency to take everything very personally, it takes a great amount of effort to post.

Does that make any sense?

Thanks,
Nanci

You make a lot of sense - I would suppose it is difficult for many of us to post at times.

It is interresting to see what led you to post - and yes, there are very often strong emotions put forth in our zeal to explain our feelings. It can be emotionally difficult just to read some things.

You said something that interrested me. You said you talked to your H about it, or were trying to explain it to your H. To me that would be a good thing, especially after you relate that you feel you have been in an abusive relationship of sorts.

After being here for two years or so, is your Marriage getting better? Have you been able to
help your H understand your feelings and needs?

Has he responded and helped you at all?

When I said tell me about you, I would like to get a feel for your hopes, and fears - and dreams. I came to MB to help my own M, there has been no A here either. I feel I have gotten a lot of help, but I want to know where you are, and what you think.

SS

How kind you are. I hadn't really expected any responses so your interest in me is appreciated.

Hum, what can I tell you about me? Well, I've been on a long long journey of self-discovery - and yet I feel like I'm still at the beginning.

I've dealt with lots of stuff, but the challenge to me right now is believing in me. My father was both verbally and emotionally abusive. My mother withdrew in order to survive. I have 4 siblings, and we were mostly back stabbing each other in order not to be singled out.

This is how I thought it was. It's only since I started coaching with Penny (which I've had to discontinue due to lack of funds <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ) that I realize life doesn't actually have to be this way. It's been quite the shock for me.

My poor husband has many of the same tendencies as my father - with the added problems of physical acting out (throwing things, holes in walls, hatred directed at pets).

But, my marriage has actually gotten better. Ironically, it seems to have turned the corner after we had to quit coaching. He called me something horrible at the top of his lungs (in another room) with my children staring wide-eyed at me. For once in my life I said I will not stay in the same house where I am called such names.

Should have felt empowering, but it didn't. I was wracked with guilt. (We had company coming and I wouldn't step foot back in the house.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> ) I'm certain I did the right thing, but it still feels so "upity" of me.

His treatment of me has made a radical turn. I fully expected to have to go to Plan B in order to be heard. Something got through. I hope it sticks. I also hope that he starts to actually listen in his IC. He has a tendency to only listen to his perceptions, which he will admit is a roadblock for him.

But for me. I'm still trying to figure me out. I don't know if I have dreams. I suppose I did at one time.

Let me amend that. I dream of being able to converse with people without feeling like I have nothing to contribute. I would like to not be so floored by others reactions. I would like to be able to be in an argument/discussion without feeling the pit open in my stomach.

Oh dear. Hope that isn't too much information.

Thanks again,
Nanci

Nanci, thanks so much for posting. I am proud to meet you and especially intrigued at your reaction to the recent posts. I am very glad that it had the impact that it did.

I just can't believe you would say I am "forthright," though! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Welcome aboard! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

How kind you are. I hadn't really expected any responses so your interest in me is appreciated.

It seems to me that you are just as valuable as any of the rest of us. We all come here looking for help, and we all help each other. If you believe in God, you would know that God values all of us too, and loves all of us. I am learning as I talk to you - and thinking. It's probably good for me.

Hum, what can I tell you about me? Well, I've been on a long long journey of self-discovery - and yet I feel like I'm still at the beginning.
Ho, Ho, that one made me smile. Isn't it the truth. So much learned, and so much yet to learn. Sounds like you are normal - just like the rest of us.

I've dealt with lots of stuff, but the challenge to me right now is believing in me.

I am still thinking about this one. Wow, it's pretty profound. I kind of think that it is what we all need. I mean, anyone here, be they BS, WS, or just looking for help, needs to believe in our selves or we really can't succeed. We need to have hope and faith we can get through our troubles, or we won't expend the effort to do it. You must have some hope, or you wouldn't be here. I'll take that as good.

It's only since I started coaching with Penny (which I've had to discontinue due to lack of funds <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ) that I realize life doesn't actually have to be this way. It's been quite the shock for me.

I am not sure how old you are (I am 49) but as I look back, it is very difficult to over come our environment. We start to do it when we become aware that there are better ways of doing things, and that we can change ourselves for the better. I am glad you got shocked. I am glad you are changing things at your house. It sounds like you are on the journey you wanted to be on - beginning to live your dream. I think this is really BIG - many people never understand and know what you seem to know. I admire a person that can do what you are doing.

My poor husband has many of the same tendencies as my father - with the added problems of physical acting out (throwing things, holes in walls, hatred directed at pets).

And how about you? Are you OK?

But, my marriage has actually gotten better. Ironically, it seems to have turned the corner after we had to quit coaching. He called me something horrible at the top of his lungs (in another room) with my children staring wide-eyed at me. For once in my life I said I will not stay in the same house where I am called such names.

Penny said ( I think it was her) once a few years ago that if you aren't getting somewhere with what you are doing, change what you are doing. (Maybe it was star*fish???, I can't remember.)

You changed it. It seems to have produced some success. See, I am impressed. WOW !

Should have felt empowering, but it didn't. I was wracked with guilt. (We had company coming and I wouldn't step foot back in the house.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> ) I'm certain I did the right thing, but it still feels so "upity" of me.

Abusers train well - stand here while I beat you, running away is disrespectful.

I am so glad you did what you did. If you respect your self, he will respect you more too. That is, if he is the kind of person you want to be with at all. You showed respect for your self, and refused to be disrespected.

His treatment of me has made a radical turn. I fully expected to have to go to Plan B in order to be heard. Something got through. I hope it sticks. I also hope that he starts to actually listen in his IC. He has a tendency to only listen to his perceptions, which he will admit is a roadblock for him.

When I read your first post, I was thinking plan B, but it is so nice to see you are making progress without that gut wrenching change. My W has helped me a lot as we have read HNHN together, and also "Love Busters, habits that destroy romantic love." We both had problems with Love Busters, I think mine were the worst. I have been here nearly three years, and things are going well for us. I have indeed learned a lot, but am still seeking knowledge - as you seem to be also.

But for me. I'm still trying to figure me out. I don't know if I have dreams. I suppose I did at one time.

Let me amend that.

It's hard to have dreams when we dream for years, only to have them shattered one by one by those we love, those that are supposed to love us too. Lets take them one by one and if you don't mind, I will comment on my feelings about your dreams.


I dream of being able to converse with people without feeling like I have nothing to contribute.
I vote for you ! I have learned a great deal from these few posts. I think if you post more often, you will feel more used to it, and it will be more comfortable for you. I suspect you have learned much you could share with others.

I would like to not be so floored by others reactions. I would like to be able to be in an argument/discussion without feeling the pit open in my stomach.

Do you think this is a result of how your father teated you? It sounds like your H wasn't much better for a while. Actually, being here, and being in the middle of some of these lively discussions could help you learn to deal more easily with your home life.

What do you think?

Do you think over time it would help you get used to giving your point of view without holding back?

Oh dear. Hope that isn't too much information.

Oh no - not at all. It was very interresting for me. I hope my replies are not too opinionated.

Thanks for helping me learn. I think you may be better at this than you think. Please do come back.

SS

<small>[ November 03, 2004, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

ML: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi SS. It was pleasant to read your reply to me. A little scary too. This part of my self exploration has been harder for me to handle than all the other messes of my life. LOL

It seems to me that you are just as valuable as any of the rest of us.

Mayhap you are correct. Getting my heart to actually BELIEVE this is unbelievably difficult.

If you believe in God, you would know that God values all of us too, and loves all of us.

This is the part I think that is the worst for me. I actually do believe in God. I clung to Him as hard as I knew how, and yet.... Somehow it was imprinted on me that I am only as important to God as how many people I witness to, or as to how many people I forgive. My importance, in my twisted thinking, revolves around others.

You must have some hope, or you wouldn't be here.

Stubborn might be a more accurate term. I keep trying - much to my own annoyance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I am not sure how old you are

While I know this was not a comment to reveal my age, I'll do it anyway since I'm wondering if this has any pertinance to the struggle. I turned 40 this year. I read in one of my self-help books that if one hasn't dealt with childhood traumas but this time, breakdowns are inevitable. I saw it happen in my mom. My husband said he saw it happen in his mom. I desperately wanted to avoid that, so worked hard. Yet here I am. Better than I would have been for sure, but still here. Grrr.

many people never understand and know what you seem to know.

This comment surprises me. I always feel so behind the times.


And how about you? Are you OK?

I think I'm OK. After coaching and after reading some books recommended, I understand how I smother my feelings towards events/people. Right now I am OK in the marriage. For the first time in 9 years I can almost believe my husband when he tells me he loves me. He actually admitted that he has distanced himself from me, severed the connection we had before we started dating 11 years ago. You have no idea what it took for him to admit something like that. It's incredible. I have hopes for better, but I squash those easily. Just writing to you has helped me remember that....Thanks.


You changed it. It seems to have produced some success.

More than I ever imagined possible, really. I've tried before to get him to stop, but he used that "I only do it when I'm angry - and you make me angry" spiel, and went right back after a short time period. It's been over a month now, and I still see the change. Again, incredible.

We both had problems with Love Busters, I think mine were the worst.

We really must be related! I don't throw things, yell, curse, drive like maniac or any of that stuff, but I was raised by a verbal abuser. I'm pretty good with hurtful words.

It's hard to have dreams when we dream for years, only to have them shattered one by one by those we love

Isn't that the truth? I've been attempting to rediscover my desires for the truth, but have been too frightened to really explore them. You've hit the nail on the head.


Do you think this is a result of how your father teated you? It sounds like your H wasn't much better for a while. Actually, being here, and being in the middle of some of these lively discussions could help you learn to deal more easily with your home life.

Yes, I think my inability to communicate with others was destroyed by my father. No, my husband did not help. At first he did. He was the best friend I had EVER had - until we started dating. Even then the change was so gradual that I didn't notice for a long time.

What do you think?

The discussions here stirred me up, made me want to stop being a bystander. I would have run for the hills if I had been flamed like so many of the posters were. I would not have been able to hold up my head. It astounded me that people kept coming back - even after pouting about how they were leaving because it was all unfair. Wow. I actually would have left. Wouldn't have told anyone either.

Do you think over time it would help you get used to giving your point of view without holding back?

Ack!! I honestly don't know. I tried once another board, but at the moment, I can't even go back there. That failure bothers me. I'm afraid this endeavor will end up the same. We shall see.

Oh no - not at all. It was very interresting for me. I hope my replies are not too opinionated.


LOL. Your post was kind and thoughtful. Made me think. Replies opinionate? You haven't met my father!!

I do want to make one thing clear though. I really do love my father. I was very damaged by him. I'm trying to understand it all, but I can not blame him for me. He also was abused - much more viciously than I. I honestly don't know how he survived. I am also standing up to him, and in the process am developing quite a repore with him. It's rather nice.

Thanks again for taking the time to explore with me.

Nanci

Good morning SS and SM....Was going to see how you were doing SM, but I see you've struck up a good convo with SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I won't interupt--for long, that is! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I actually do believe in God. I clung to Him as hard as I knew how, and yet.... Somehow it was imprinted on me that I am only as important to God as how many people I witness to, or as to how many people I forgive. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You already used this word, but allow me "poetic license". How profound a word: "imprint." Very strong, powerful, word. Powerful and claustrophobic-like word, as well. It was "imprinted" on me, Catholicism. My upbringing and 7 years of Catholic school.

BUT, through the years, I could not let that imprint define my relationship. I certainly took the "good qualities" and began my "own" relationship with Him.

Just my thought of the day...sincerely glad you are posting!

SS, SM, and LINY - WOW!!! Once again, I come here and found exactly what I NEED!

Apparrently, we have quite a 'sisterhood' going on here... you are both great at expressing what's going on in your heads and hearts and lives! I feel like I have shared your histories...

SM - Your frank self-appraisal and search for meaning and growth are indeed something very special and honorable. There are so many people who NEVER put that effort forward and so many that "try" but never put forth such a sincere effort!

I, too, am greatly appreciative of your musings and observations, but particularly impressed that you'd seek help and insight BEFORE making a terrible decision!

I admire you.

Keep posting, please?

restarting

Hey LINY! I've heard about the Catholic imprinting. I'm protestant myself, but imprinted just the same.

I'm just now learning that the imprinting doesn't have to define me or how I view God. This year has just been full of shocks for me!


Restarting: Well, thank you for your kind words. I am grateful that I actually did seek out help before I followed through with my idiot thoughts. Now if I could just keep those thoughts from swirling back into my brain whenever we have a rough patch......

Nanci

LINY -
I think you ought to come back more often, you do a really good job.

Restarting -
I am not sure I would want my wife to know I belonged to a "sisterhood". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Perhaps you can keep it quiet?

Nanci, would you be upset if I disagree with you about something?

You mention what you call your "idot thoughts."

When a person has been through what you have been through, they seek a way out of the hole they are in. Many ideas come to them. Notice you didn't act on your thoughts. Perhaps it was all you could do not to - but all of us have been there. All of us fight that fight more than once in our lives.

Consider that you are human, and that you are learning and growing - think of your self as someone that is better today then she was a few years ago. Realize that you are actually making progress in your life. I just hate to use the word idot in connection with you, it doesn't sound like you.

I think some of the dark thoughts will come back when you have rough patches, but I think they will hurt your chances less and less as you go along.

I have some questions for you - if you don't mind.

What happened on the other board that you would want to stop posting there?

Also -
Are there things you are working on now - and if so, how do you think both of you are doing?


You probably already know this, but if I have a hard time getting back around in a timely manner, it's not because I don't care.

SS

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>