HW,

You might remember that my H and I have recovered from two affairs. After a cursory examination of the reasons for the first affair, we chalked it up to stress and mid-life dissapointment. But we knew the reasons were more complicated than that. We just didn't have the strength to deal with them.

Five more years we shuffled along, mostly unhappy, with the underlying reasons continuing to widen the gulf between us and making our marriage vulnerable to a second affair.

At that point, we had nothing to lose. We didn't care if we lost, frankly. Through many months, years really, we laid it all out, piece by nasty piece, and learned a few things. Maybe this will help you.

We learned that we knew the reasons "why" all along but that we chose to ignore them in hopes they would just go away on their own. We discovered that to truly examine the reasons would compel us to admit the reasons were ugly, shallow, callous -- and we'd have to admit that indeed, we ouselves were "ugly" "shallow" and "callous."

We found out that we hid in our hearts dark thoughts that we feared if spoken aloud would bring dire consequences. When we gathered the courage to speak them out loud to each other, we learned they lost their power over us. And many of them weren't true at all.

I hope and pray that your husband can find his trust in you and that he might open up his deepest, darkest thoughts to you and you to him.

It brought us healing.

~ Snow

NG -
I really think you have hit the nail on the head with repeating what SMI stated. You both are right. My H is probably trying to protect me. That is what makes me think that it was more my weight then anything else. It would hurt to know that for sure. How would I deal with that? I mean, we had just had a baby. I was not huge...but I was about a size 12 which is not the norm for me. Right now I'm a 4 at most.

I too worry that I'll find something else. But for the most part I'm numb to the details. It's not even about FOW anymore. It's about what happened to put us in this place to begin with.

I hope the Boys haircuts go well. I wish I could cut the baby's hair but she won't sit still for a minute. She has a naturally grown mullett...it's not very flattering! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Top-Rope -
I always appreciate your positive outlook on everyone's situation. You see the silver lining when the particpants can't. And as far as my health goes...I'll say this and then I'll leave it alone. My confession here was in no way a cry for help. I know I have a problem and I know I should get help. Right now that part of me is a crutch that gets me through the days. I can control that unlike I can control anything else in this world and I'm not ready to give it up. I have a Dr. appt in December. I started seeing a new doctor a few months ago and I really like her. I really think that I can tell her and she can get me some help.

Imagine this, after telling my H all the hairy details about my ED yesterday...which I'm almost positive he has known about it for years....we live in the same house....how can you not know? He has said nothing about it or displayed any type of concern. Again it's like it never happened. That's how it's handled...if it's ugly don't look at it and it'll be like it's not even there.

And Top-Rope - you were soooo right about last night. Nothing. Not one word. But I was quiet...which is rare for me...I have so much to say all the time there's rarely time for anyone else to speak. But nothing from him about what happened. And yes, you guessed it....he made the attempt. Which I expected anyway so I was ready. And as you know this is my thing...I like it and look for it and go for it...always have always will. Not something odd for a victim of an ED...you know the need for reassurance and all. I was still a bit stunned but went through with it anyway. I do love him so why deny him that?

WAT -

You are too sweet to say such nice things about me. I was actually pretty embarassed that you know about what is going on now. I guess I was worried that I'd disappoint you in some way. After all, you guided me through this process from the beginning. You helped me see that exposure was the right thing to do and it was.
As you know I've tried to get the WHY from him from the very start. The day that I found out and his father called him to tell him to come home to me.....that was the very first thing I asked him when he walked in the door.

Since that day I have seen such rage from this man. I would not think that was even possible. Rage to the point of me being paralyzed. That is not the man I married 10 years ago. I mean he's kind and gentle and he's humble....ok cocky at times...but humble for the most part. Of course he could be humble standing next to me...I have always been so proud of him I make sure everyone knows how much he's accomplished and how great he is. What's left for him to brag about?

Ok now I have this question:
He needs IC, right? Or should I get into MC? I'm not sure I could afford both but I need to do something. We've sought outside help before and that was a flop. We've also attended 2 marriage seminars in the past year and we have discussed this with our pastor and his wife. So IC or MC or one after the other. I am willing to say that if he doesn't go through with this then we will have to reasses the marriage as a whole. I would hate for it to come down to that but I feel very strongly about this.

Finally Snowbelle -

I'd like to ask you a few questions about your post. I think this will help me more then you know. If you don't mind my asking, would you please tell me some of the terrible things you discovered. Or just a round about idea. I really think I need to know.

And if you don't mind can you possibly walk me through some of the ways you got to this point. Even the failures that didn't work or didn't give you the end results you were looking for. How did these things make you feel? What was your reaction when you heard them? How did you feel when speaking them out loud?

I thank you all so much for helping me. This is why I came here. For help. and even when I feel humilated you make me feel like....I'm still normal and I'm still on the right road and there is hope.

I thank you all for that!

not just the right road but a rough road too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Rough I think of you all the time. I continue to pray for you. I'm not in a place to offer you much encouragement right now.

Hi HW,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Any suggestions on getting my H to read it? I'm up for any suggestions. I'm fresh out.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Our MC gave us this book to read along with a companion work book... You might want to try and find a MC that endorses Torn Asunder and see if you can get your H to start MC again...

Does your H have any close Christian men that he can talk with? IMHO, I think that the best thing for you and your H would be to find a good Christian MC and start going together...

I'll be praying for you and your H...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Hey, keep in mind that NO plan works instantly or the first time.

Just like plan A can take weeks or months to get the desired results....other plans that are aimed at changing or modifying life long behaviors take "time" to work.

Keep this in mind when you reach out once, feel rejected and then want to just chuck it and give up.

YOU'VE done the Hardest part already.....admitting that your current plan is NOT working.
In many cases that is the largest hurdle to get over.

RIF -

I am ashamed to say that we are best friends with our pastor and his wife. My H will take a position with the church once he gets out of the military. We are Christians. We read our bible together everyday...of course these last 2 weeks have been very strained so we haven't but that was a normal thing for us.

Our pastor and his wife know about the A. They were the first people we turned to. Right now they are so proud of where we are and how far we've come I think I'm a bit ashamed to mention it to them now. I feel like I'm the one not letting go. And I'm worried that's how they will see it as well.

My H is a good person. The thought of this A turns him into someone completely different. I've never seen this side of him. It's terrible.

Our pastor even recommended HN/HN to us on D-Day. And they gave me SAA. I started it that very night. He still doesn't get it.

He read some of HN/HN but saw it as a way to hold on to the A and stop reading it once we moved up here and we weren't meeting weekly with our pastor anymore. It's like he did it for as long as he had to so they would think he was making and effort. When the truth is...he didn't care and he thought it was stupid all along. He's even told me that in a moment of rage. Here's a brief example:

I'm not like this. This isn't for me. I'm not one of the people in that book. I don't need this crap. I made a mistake and you won't let me get over it. You are killing me by asking WHY all the time. Just let it go so we can move on!

I could go on and on. I'm sure this sounds very familiar to you all. It's like he's saying: I'm this tough Army guy. I don't put blame on anything. I hate it when people put their mistakes on other people or other things then poor judgement. That's what this was. A mistake that hurt you so bad you're screwed up right. I did that to you. Imagine how that makes me feel everyday. Knowing I hurt you this bad. Let me get over it. (the last part is an actual quote)

How do I break through that tough army exterior and get him to realize that without knowing why I will continue to be STUCK. I will never heal and I will continue to resent him. My ED will get worse. It will eventually get to the point where I'm too sick to function.

Or the other option....just leave.

Maybe, just maybe, you can appeal to his "toughness."

When the time is right to bring it up, try leaning on him without "leaning" on him.

Here's what I mean: He may interpret your expression of your need to understand more of what happened as a subtle, or maybe not so subtle, blame game. We know and you know that you're not interrested in blame assignment - but that may be the way he hears it. He already takes the blame and this may feel like piling on to him.

Remember, guys like to fix things and solve problems. Often, when a guy hears a plea for help from his woman, he hears it as an indictment for why he didn't already fix it or solve it. He (we) feel leaned on without having a fair chance to fix the problem.

So, perhaps if you seek HIS strength to help you solve YOUR problem he may feel more needed and be more willing to apply his guy instinct to fix it. Make it sound more like your problem than his.

Make any sense?

WAT

WAT -

I see what you are saying but I'm not sure I know how to do that. What do I say to make him see that I need him to help me?

He has said from the beginning that it kills him to see me hurting and know that he's the cause and there's nothing he can do to help me. He feels helpless. How do I make him see that he would be helping me more by trying to figure out why?

HW,

I promise I will reply to your questions. I will need to make time for thinking and writing at the same time (which doesn't happen a lot in my life these days!!!), but I promise to do so sometime over this weekend.

Hang in there!

~ Snow

HW,

I really didn't mean that he was protecting you about things about you, silly girl. I meant he was protecting you about the details of the A.

I missed the stuff you took out of your original post. So I don't think I understand the weight thing you are talking about. I am a size 4 on a good day, depending on the brand. (size 2s used to fall off of me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> - but, alas no more). And I still have the "jiggely" tummy. I really worry that is a problem. I'm pretty sure the OW has a flat tummy - she is skinny to me. I really don't like her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I don't think the As are all about us, really. Oh, yes I know there were needs not being met (for me, anyway), and yes I was a bit bigger over the last few years than I am now. But, as my H tries to tell me - "It wasn't about you, it was about me."

Now, I'm not so foolish to think that it was all about him. But I do believe him in some ways. He says that it was just something that happened. And mind you, your H and mine are similar. My H has an army mindset too (was in the reserves - never active duty), but he has that toughguy (silent) facade that is hard to break through. But once you break through, the feelings come pouring out like someone opened the dam. Man, it must be hard holding all those feelings and emotions in.

But, he has been sharing more deep feelings with me lately than ever before in our M. Now, I wish I had some hard and fast answers for you as to why or how I got him to open up, but I don't know. By some miracle I guess. I will pray that you and 2B will experience that miracle as well.

Let me know how you are doing today. I hope my words have helped in some way. I think I'm better at commiserating than giving advice. I will say (and this may be obvious to you) that maybe your H is afraid to share all his feelings with you because it will hurt you even more than he has already hurt you. And he does not feel safe that he can share with you without you getting upset. I think that is what I mean by him
"protecting you".

(edited to correct typo)

ng <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: naivegirl ]</small>

In a moment of rage and anguish when I was pressuring my FWH for more details he said, through tears, that he felt so bad, he felt ashamed, he was sorry he did it, and he can't ever feel better about it, he feels like a horrible person, and he wants to try and forget it, but he can't.

I took from that, that he is beating himself up about it every day. So in a way we BOTH need reassurance.

Some things I have tried to say to him are, "Honey, I love you, and will ALWAYS love you. I hate to see that you are giving yourself a hard time about past mistakes. You are a wonderful person. I know the trouble we had in our M was partly my fault too. I'm sorry for the part I played in our M being ripe for an A to happen. I am trying to heal, and I think you are too. Is there anything I can do to help you heal? I would like to ask you some things to do for me to help me heal too. Know that I will love you no matter what. The choices you made were not who you are deep down. I trust in the man I see before me."

Or something like that...

I will mention the A in passing, about once a month, usually while we are talking gently with each other, or embracing. I will say something like, "I was so scared when you were seeing the OW, I was afraid I would lose you. I'm glad we have been able to make some changes in our M, and hope we continue them. Did you love her? Would you have left me for her?" And then that's it, I don't ask another question. I figure by the time I'm 60 I'll have all my quesitons answered...

HW - let me try to answer your question of how to get him to help you.

To do this, I have to try to place myself - being a typical "problem solving" guy - in his shoes in his already self-beaten-up circumstance. (I may not do this effectively.)

What would NOT work would be communication that in any way, shape, or form emphasizes what he has already done wrong. An instant turn off.

What may work would be a calm, quiet expression that you have a problem that you need his help on. This is about YOU, not him. You are experiencing negative effects of your reactions to the stresses you both have experienced and for you to get better, thereby making the whole family better, you need to understand more fully what things about you that you need to change to create the best relationship possible. You can't clap with one hand and you need his help, his strength, his support to make it all come together to solve your problem. You need him.

No matter how you present this, he may react with the same response he has in the past.

It could be that there is nothing more you need to change. It could all be him and your self doubt anxiety is unnecessary. This could also be why he hasn't been able to tell you why the affair happened - he can't identify anything you did wrong and has to look inwardly - a very tough thing for him to do, perhaps.

We can't tell from a distance. This is why I suggested some counseling. Get IC for yourself if he can't/won't participate. He needs counseling too. You two are still very early in your long range recovery and from what I've read, full recoveries without good counseling are rare.

Hope this helps.

WAT

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

2B -

I missed your last post. I am sorry. I will address your question first:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> One question I do have though, what do you think made him flip out. You telling him you didn’t think he was attracted to you or you telling him about the ED? I think he is realizing the affect this is having on you and he’s having a hard time dealing with the fact that he is the cause. But that does NOT justify his reaction to you this time or any other time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know. I can't tell you what it was. I really think it was probably his sense of sheer hopelessness in his ability to help me. It's like reality scares him to death. He just doesn't get it.

I will say this before I go back and read everyone's recent posts. I have seen a side of him that had terrified me. He is a good man and I love him dearly. I will never stop loving him but at this point I'm trying to figure out who he is. Who in the right mind would do what he did the other day after I had just spilled the beans on the hairy details?!?!? That's not a normal reaction. The fact that I admitted it first here and then said it out loud to him was a very difficult thing for me to do. Even now I feel very raw....I feel exposed and I feel humiliated for ever even bringing it to light.

On one hand it's empowering to know that I can say it to you guys and not get some wild reaction...like 'how sorry are you'. But to say it to him and see that he will not address it or admit that it's there.

OK, going to read the other posts now and I will respond soon.

Thank you for your post 2B and I do apologize for missing it before. I must have just been in a panic.

Ditto with StillHereMakingIt.

Except that we probably talk about it more than once a month because he still has contact with OW at work. It is in our face everyday. Once we find a new job, I think we will be better able to begin the true healing process.

I know true recovery won't begin until he gets a new job. However, I do feel like I have almost investigated every facet of the A. Still reading through the emails. I am trying to finish so I can wash my hands of it all. After that, I pray I can find the peace I need and I pray that he will be able to forgive himself.

ng <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

HW,

My thoughts on your H's inability to address the things you told him. I think I've figured it out - some sort of ED? If he is the "strong, silent type" like my H, I think he is really struggling with the fact that your ED is his fault.

Also, my H often seems to be indifferent to me when I'm sick. I get a lot of headaches and often seem (to me) to have a lot of minor health problems. H has none. He doesn't have a lot of patience with people who can't just pick themselves up and keep going through sickness, pain, whatever. I think that is some sort of man thing and maybe its a military thing too. "No pain-no gain" attitude. I don't know, really. I'm just trying to help you figure out why he didn't react to your feelings and confession. I know my H would be deeply upset, but knowing him, he may not say so at the time. Over the years, I've figured out that he takes a lot of things to heart and never says another word about them. And a lot of those things are things that have hurt him in some way. Things I have said. And I never really knew that it bothered him. He is more sensitive than I ever thought. Actually, I knew this, I just forgot. When he didn't open up for years, despite my requests, I just got tired of trying (my fault).

I hope this helps. I think WAT has the great "man's perspective" you might need. I know my H does not react well to crying or outpowering of my emotion. He does better opening up if I can remained composed and objective. VERY hard in this situation, but somehow I've been able to do it.

Prayers and hugs to you today.

ng <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

One thing we here are slowly seeing (and you probably already knew) is that this "pretend" behavior is a life long pattern for your H. [Meaning it's not just about His A].
So your probably not really all that surprised at his reactions this week.
(IMO most likely why you've NOT attempted this before).

His pattern is much the same no matter "what" the issue IS (except in that it's one he doesn't want to face, confront or deal with).
First, He gets angry.
Next, attacks you and makes you feel guilty or at fault.
Then he retreats (apologizes) and "acts" as if nothing is wrong or everything is normal.
Can you say Dysfunctional?

But his stratagy works cause the actual "problem" is NEVER actually discussed.
However, what "works" for him....is slowly driving You insane.

Kind of hard to get what YOU need from a personality like that.
In truth, you could be doing everything "right" (in terms of relationship building and communication) and still NOT be able to effectively "get through" to this type.

In addition, its being born out that its almost impossible to "shock" him into any type of what most consider a normal reaction.
(like your recent admission)

As where many individuals would be "shocked" into at the very least, acknowledging, the problem....instead your H goes even Further into Denial.

So here is a problem. If you "up the anti" and try to force something like a threatened separation...he may just Retreat Further into himself. (Even at the cost of further detriment to himself).

Good news is that NONE of this is YOUR fault. Did you get That??
NONE OF HIS BEHAVIOR IS YOUR FAULT!!
(Not saying you can't hold onto this misplaced guilt if you want to....but its not necessary and its NOT helping him or You).

Bad news is there isn't a whole lot you can do to change this behavior, up and until HE WANT'S to change it.
Should he want to change, then by all means you'll be able to support him in it, but there's no way to force him to do this. (Believe me I wish you could Change another person.....but it just doesn't work that way).

By the way we are here to support you.
Cause we ALL have our own personal demons and faults. Yes, our individual challanges may be different.....but the means to overcome and deal with them is much the same.
So although you have every right to be feeling "raw" right now....take heart that we are not judging you.......on the contrary we are 'empathizing" WITH you.
We only want you to be happy and healthy (both personally and in your M).

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: top rope ]</small>

Don't let the weight issue go...he is avoiding it because he blames himself...can't face it, can't handle it right now.

PLEASE, please, please bring it up again, or it will be a source of resentment in your M that will be hard to heal from...

Some words you can use, leaving out all the "you"s you can...

"I have a problem" (Great at getting a guys attention, they want to be your Knight in Shining Armor.)
"I need help, I have been hurting myself"
Continue with the "I feel...I need...I am's" Placing the blame solely on your shoulders. This is NOT his problem, this is how you view his behavior...he may surprise you and have some very sincere solutions.

Let him ask the questions, or if he doesn't want to ask the questions, ask if he knows of someone you can talk with...

Hi...

Top Rope:

"His pattern is much the same no matter "what" the issue IS (except in that it's one he doesn't want to face, confront or deal with).
First, He gets angry.
Next, attacks you and makes you feel guilty or at fault.
Then he retreats (apologizes) and "acts" as if nothing is wrong or everything is normal.
Can you say Dysfunctional?

But his stratagy works cause the actual "problem" is NEVER actually discussed.
However, what "works" for him....is slowly driving You insane."

Oh welcome to my world. Good grief! You nailed it! Just reading what you wrote did help me a wee bit. I don't feel quite as alone now.

And heroswife...

If you don't mind me asking, what is "ED"?

I wish I had something to offer you, but alas, I sure don't. So I'm sending you warm wishes & hugs.

Isleepwithacat
Isleepwithacat@yahoo.com

2B

Don't be sorry it turned out like this. Like almost everyone has pointed out....this is not such a bad thing. I mean it did bring these things to the surface and has made him at least face that this just won't go away.

I am not glad that I decided to move forward. I'm not hiding it from him anymore. I will let things rest for a while. So I can heal and gather the nerve to address in a different manner.

Our H's do have a great deal in common. I'm wondering if most men aren't like this to some extent or at least until they understand that you have to deal with things and not just push them aside.

NG

I do think that's what he's doing. He trying to protect me from knowing that he wasn't attracted to me and that's why he had the A. He is most definately trying to protect me from the events of the A. He will not admit to anything I can't prove. I can tell you that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was a PA. I do not doubt that and he will never admit that.

I took out some personal issues I have experienced since the A....it's not something that wasn't there before...I suffered with it in the past but for the past few years I have been fine and not as obsessed as I was in my early 20's. It was almost like I felt comfortable and secure so I could control it. Then the A happens and I feel like I'm a prisoner in my own body once again.

I appreciate your prayers and always return them.

I am fine today. I feel empty and sad but I have found some things to focus on including my children and that has helped a great deal. It's one of those situations where some of my girlfriends decided that I needed some fun so they went out and found us some fun. We are planning a trip in December with just the girls. A break from life for a few days so we can relax. All young married mothers looking to relax. That alone has lifted my spirits. I wish you guys could come with me.

SHMI

That is exactly what my H does. He will cry and say that he feels terrible, awful and can't stand himself for what he did. He says he'll have to live with that for the rest of his life and he wants to make it up to me and treat me like I deserve to be treated.

I know he's beating himself up over this. I can see it in his eyes. I always reassure him that I love him and will never stop loving him. Before this A I was his biggest fan and his biggest supporter. In a way I put him on a pedestal and thought he was the INHUMAN being....like he could do no wrong. Then this happens and I see that not only is he human but he can do some serious WRONG! So it's very hard for me to pump up his ego now. I am sickened to an extent. But I still love him. And I still show him that but it's not the blind love that I had before. It's the protected love. Like I will love you but not give myself to you fully until I can trust you again.

I think I am going to let it lie for a while. The next time I bring this up will be in MC. I will never address this outside of a mediator. I don't think he would ever hurt me. But I also didn't think he would ever have an A either. I won't make that mistake twice. If he ever hit me I think I'd take my children to the west coast and forget I ever had a husband. I had a step father with a quick hand for me, my sister and my mother. I'll never let another man raise his hand to me. But I will say it again.....I really do not think he would ever ever ever do that.

WAT
OK, I see what you are saying. Stay away from blame. And you are right...I have said several times....look at what YOU have done to me! That is bad. I should have known better. Sometimes it helps to hear someone say....that's not a good idea.

And I really hate to say this....but....I can clap with one hand. It's not something I'm proud of but it is a nice ice breaker at parties...I'm kidding. I only do it in front of my kids when I want to make them smile. And yes I know I should be in a circus because I can also snap my toes just like I snap my fingers. There's a story behind both activities but I'm not in the mood to share it right now. I'll just say that I didn't have a whole lot of toys as a young child and leave it at that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

As you may have read above, the next time I bring this up will be in MC. I will set it up and tell him when and where and he can chose to be there or not. Either way I will go. If he decides not to go then I will have all I need to move on.

NG
Yeah that's what I removed. Info about an eating disorder...not erectile disfunction...sorry if that confused anyone. As for me being sick and him not being sympathetic...here's an example....I had a terrible stomach bug or something a few weeks ago...couldn't get out of bed. I'm never sick like that. H showed concern...like can I bring you something. I'm sorry you feel bad. Stuff like that but not like trying to take care of me and make sure I was resting. I still made dinner and then laid down while they ate. That night he attempted SF. I was astonished. He's even attempted SF while I was crying! I never ever ever say no. I don't care how upset or sick I am. I will not say no. I've never done that.

My H on the other hand.....when he's sick it's a site to see. He will lay in the bed for days on end and not get up. Meals and drinks brought to him, bath water prepared, cold wash clothes, constant trips to the store to get gatorade...it's never ending! Makes me want to puke. Before the A I don't know if it just didn't happen of if I just didn't notice. I mean can you be a bigger baby? But I do it and I don't complain. I love him and that's what I'm supposed to do.


Top Rope
You are right as usual. The act like it's not there is a patern. Not just with my H but with his entire family. I will not give the family's dish here on the site but this behavior goes way back. Not to say that his family isn't a good family. But they didn't address problems. They just avoid it. Take for instance this one situation. My MIL's new H has hit on me...as a child of 16 and as an adult. He has also done some inappropriate things with my SIL who is my age...no details...I can't go there. But everyone acts like it's not there. I refuse to stay there anymore when we visit. I can't look at him. But here's the thing...even after I said that I was uncomfortable he still wanted to go over there....I refused and he didn't push the subject but that's a perfect example.

OK this post is way too long but I wanted to make sure I responded to everyone as best as I could.

Thank you all again for loving me and helping me with this. I don't know where I'd go without you. I will say after that self exposure experience I wanted to run from this board because I figured you would judge me for that.