</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Kids are horrid !
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's learned behavior, Bob! (giggle/snort)

Is anyone still here? FL, you around?

Hey there, FF.....I'm here! Got on before lunch but had to log off for a while....RH usually calls me at the end of his lunch break. ANyway, I'm back....seems quiet and slow here today.

How are you? RH told me you said to say "HI"....I appreciated that, very much! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm still here.

I was thinking about the woofies. My H and kids called them frogs. They would go brrrt and then look around and say "frogs" as though there were frogs in the car with us. Took me several months to catch on. Duh

Hi NOW. Having kind of a down time today. I guess I was on such a high yesterday that the only way to go was down. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> My H and I had a bit of a misunderstanding this morning and I find he gets so defensive, then I get defensive and we don't get our points across. He says things and then walks out to go to work, leaving me hurt and confused. Then he gets angry cuz I call him at work and want to talk it out. I can't say this to him,but geez he made all sorts of time to talk to xOW during the day but why can't he talk to me? If I say that to him it will just make things worse. sigh...guess I just needed someone to listen.

Starz,

Hi! "frogs", you say? Hmmmm....will have to remember that one....I like it!

Not exactly the same thing, but when i was a little girl, every time my grandfather burped he would blame it on someone. I t seemed to me he blamed everyone but me, so dork that I was, I complained because I WANTED him to blame me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
My grandmother would always just say to him,

"get any on ya?"

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

I'm here, Faith. I'm TRYING not to work.

Maybe it is just my cycle, but I am feeling so sad today. Ok, I need to separate myself from this. I let my H's moods affect me too much. Come on guys talk me through this.

Hi FF!!!

Me too....having a sort of "down" day. I swear, if we don't soon get some sun here, I'm moving! I don't really know if that's it or not.
Getting defensive....yep, that's definitely a hindrance to solving something, isn't it? It's so common and oh, so easy to do when problems crop up. It's a "defense mechanism" ....but it doesn't work very well. It's something that's very difficult to overcome because it is basically a "knee-jerk" reaction that has become a habit. So, you are aware of it, and that's GOOD! It will take some work, but you can change that, slowly, maybe....but surely! Sometimes, when I got that way with RH, later I would tell him I was sorry for getting defensive. Then he would say sorry, too, then we'd be able to really talk.
RH is so amazing.....I read here a lot, listening to other BS's rant on and on and I am sooooooo fortunate that RH isn't that way. I feel like an idiot for actually believing at one time that he could never develop sensitivity and compassion. I was gloriously wrong!

Thanks NOW, can I blame it on the moon? LOL
I am trying to listen to him. He gets mad because I don't ask him if he can talk when I call. So I called a few minutes ago and said are you busy can you talk and he said no can't talk. Ok, maybe that is a start. I just want to talk and apologize for being defensive. I think some of it is a trigger. He went to his friends house last night and this guy enabled the last A for him. I hate it when he goes over there! Anyway, one foot in front of the other...

FF,

I know....RH seemed to follow my moods for a long time after D-day. even now at times, whenever I feel sad or upset, he gets really "scared" and starts to think it has to do with OM. It must be so hard for you....I can only imagine, and that's probably not near what you're actually going through.
A lot of my defensiveness after D-day came from guilt and also feeling that I could not ever ever do anything to make up for what I had done, thinking RH would ALWAYS hold it against me, etc....and probably most of all, from the fact I hadn't truly forgiven myself. When I finally decided to stop beating myself up, I was a lot less defensive towards RH. It's hard to forgive yourself, and believe you deserve frogiveness as a WS.

*** aw shucks ***

I got back early dear. I was reading Faith's posts and was going to send her some good vibes and now I'm all embarrassed.

{{{{{Faith}}}}}

{{{{{NOW}}}}}

See you in an hour.

It's hard to forgive yourself, and believe you deserve frogiveness as a WS. Very true. We are both WS/BS which can cause a lot of confusion. My A was a long time ago, but he just found out about 8 weeks ago. His were both in the last 4 years and the most recent one was 2004 with an OC expected next month. So I try not to think that his changes in behavior means he is back in contact and just have to realize that he is still assimilating what he learned about me recently. I have to expect he will be distant and angry at times. I am working on myself. Oh somedays though I just want to cry.

gotta go.

takes forever to shut these dinosaur pc's down.

{{{{{Idiotville}}}}}

FF,

I suppose he probably goes over to his friend's house because he feels "accepted" there. He may not feel accepted "as is" by you, and I'm not saying that is your fault at all or that you don't accept him. A lot of what a BS perceives is really just internal dialogue. What I mean is, you may not be doing anything to cause the defensiveness, but he is telling himself that to protect himself from the guilt feelings he has. Does that make sense?
I had told RH early on that I was uncomfortable around him. Because I had had hurt him deeply and that isn't much fun to see. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It's easier to be around someone you haven't hurt....see?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I let my H's moods affect me too much</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, you recognize that you're getting defensive, too, so that's good. Now circumvent it.

On Oprah after the show last night they had a bunch of h's that dressed up as women for a week. One guy said he finally figured it out that men are more often linear in their thinking, while women think about everything all at once. Your dh walking out the door = him now thinking about work, not the tiff. Whereas, you, me and the rest of the female populace dwells on it all day and it festers and simmers till we jump on those guys when they get home (or in your case, you can't wait and you call him). You've got to recognize that he's not thinking about it right now, more than likely, and he has to realize that you are.

Capice?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I had told RH early on that I was uncomfortable around him </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Which hurt in its own right. JL said something recently, that it is Determination that helps M's recover. I think that is so true FF. One think, I don't know if you know. We (NOW &I) aren't dealing with both of us having A's. Though I think that I was probably pretty close to having one. It's probably been easier to deal with our situation b/c there was only one A to deal with. I hate even thinking that this would be harder.

Really have to go now. I-ville Luv to all.

FF,

Ha! I embarrassed RH!

Oh, FF.....that is so much to deal with <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But believe this, please....everything will be all right. Yes, it takes time to assimilate all that has happened, and new things to learn to assimilate seem to keep cropping up, don't they? It's a process and it's growth....those aren't "bad" things. I wouldn't try to fight the sadness you experience. I allowed myself to really feel the pain, but would tell myself that "this too shall pass"....told myself there IS a light at the end of that tunnel, even though I couldn't see it.
And as we were both determined to work things out, the pain wasn't really scary. it was just....pain.

(((((((((FF))))))))))))))

You've got to recognize that he's not thinking about it right now, more than likely, and he has to realize that you are. That is exactly what he said to me, Kimmy! He said "you assume I still thinking about it because you are and I forgot about it the minute I walked out the door." So it really becomes my issue doesn't it? Even though he throws something out at me and leaves?

Thank you NOW and RH for the hugs. You are right, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I think I will take my sorry self down to Curves and work off some of this winter bulge. Maybe by then I will feel better.