Thos...I was reading one of your posts on WakingUp's thread and I have to say, you hit the nail on the head regarding OMM. I too was involved for a year with a OMM who turned out to be a predator in every sense of the word. I'm not pretending to be innocent by any means but one thing you said stands out to me. If he had been a caring friend, he would have never crossed that line and used me. I was his 4th and he had the nerve to tell me that he couldn't say that I would be his last!

I request the prayers of everyone who believes in the power of prayer to release this man from my life. D-day has been over a year and a half. I quit my job where we both worked after 17 years to get away from him and the pain of having to be reminded everyday of what a huge mistake I made. I seem to be at a point of feeling bitterness towards him for the fact that he suffered nothing from this and I have been to hell and back. My family knows due to the fact that I went into a deep depression after it ended. His wife knows nothing about any of his indescretions.

I know that I've got to let it go and I'm struggling with that.

Please remember me in your prayers

I'm gonna threadjack just for a sec here..

Lisa,
I really think you should tell his wife.
He is putting her life and health in danger and as you have said she is in the dark about whom she married. I know you'd just like to be done..put it behind you..but the truth is that you have already done her very ill, and telling is really the least you can do. You owe it to her. Please consider exposing. This may be just the thing to exorcise him from your mind..or at least a good start.

Noodle

we now return to your regularly schedualed program <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

thx for the reply noodle. I really don't understand myself for not wanting to tell her but I just can't. I know that is totally against MB's teachings but it's just the way I feel. My head knows without a doubt that it's the right thing to do my heart just won't let me do it. I can't really say why. I don't know if it's because I don't want to hurt her or him. You see, the thing that really bothers me about the whole mess is I still miss him at times and I can't forgive myself for that. He never confessed to having anything but "special" feelings for me and I knew without a doubt when it was all said and done that I had just been used.

I don't regret that things ended because that was inevitable, I just regret the way it ended. I guess that I'm just a coward but what I would like to see is him getting caught by his wife in another affair and me hearing about it. I know that I sound twisted!!!

<small>[ November 07, 2004, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Lisa103 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I just can't. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lisa.... I do not respect this part of your post.

Just be honest, say "I don't choose to."

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I request the prayers of everyone who believes in the power of prayer to release this man from my life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My prayer for you Lisa is this:

God, I pray for Lisa's release from her weakness of "but I just can't" ... when Lisa knows she is choosing wrongly.

Pep

Pep....I know that you are right and I can't blame you for being disappointed in me. I just don't know that I can handle the guilt of possibly destroying his marriage after my husband has been so forgiving. I know that his fault is his and not mine. I'm just scared!

[Hey..it's not a threadjack anymore! Just a change in direction <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ]

Oh..I understand very well why you feel reluctant.

If you tell his wife..the defecation will hit the oscillator..so to speak <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

In a lot of ways..and none of it will be fun for you.

Doesn't sound like a ride anyone would volunteer to go on.

However..this womans very life..her LIFE is in danger.

Do you realize that? Or have you rationalized to such an extent that you do not care?

She could very well DIE as a result of her Hs actions..some of which were with you. Are you willing to have a hand in her death because you just couldn't bring yourself to tell her the truth?

I realize that you are yet foggified..it's clear in your expression. You do not yet see fully the extent of the fallout. You wish things had ended well..while probably having more than a sneaking suspicion that affairs do not well..it is only well that they end.

This however..is one instance in which your feelings must be overruled because of the very real and life threatening danger that not exposing puts this woman in.

Do you see what I'm saying?
Her blood is on your hands until you tell her.

My prayers will be that you gather the strength and courage to do what is required despite your feelings and fears.

I really think that until you have exposed him..you wil not be able to let go. Feelings follow action..it was ever thus..your freedom will come after you have done the right thing..not before. Every step you take in the right direction frees you further..but this may well be one of the things that binds you.

Please reconsider.

Noodle

Lisa....

I did not say I was disappointed... I said I lost respect.

There is a difference.

You seek people's approval even if it costs you your own self-respect.

Pep

wow...now that one hurt because all my life that's exactly how I've been. It's amazing how just those few words by you have made me cry but I know you're right.

When this:

Doing what pleases others

becomes your priority instead of :

Doing what is right and good

Your sense of ~living well~ is no longer in your own hands.

Pep

Noodle. I hear what you're saying and I guess that's why I've been off the board for so long and was reluctant to come back because I know that you are giving me good advice. There's still a very real concern about hurting his family, his wife, his two son's, and his grandchildren. I guess that in many ways I blame myself for not being "mature" enough to let go like he was able to. I work with many of his friends at my new job and yes I guess PEP is right, I would rather not be the "villian" by exposing him.

I'm going to take a break and think about this but it only makes me hurt that much deeper to even consider exposing to his family.

I do appreciate you and PEP taking the time to reply.

Lisa..glad you are going to reconsider this..and also..I agree with pep.

You are absolutely more concerned with seeming the villian to others..than by actually being the villian.

I would bring this up with your IC..maybe s/he can help you work through this.

Noodle

Lisa, I think you have an obligation to let the woman know who her H really has been. Maybe she would have preferred to remain in the dark, but I doubt it. Then, maybe they will have a chance to repair the damage that his A's have certainly caused in their marriage, or not...that would be her choice.

If you can't do it yourself, maybe your H will inform her. The most inportant thing is that she find out the truth that has probably escaped her all these years. It can be a positive, protentially growth experience for them both.

He should not be able to escape any consequences for his actions. Do not enable that to happen any further. You have a responsibility. His wife has been hurt all these years without knowing what has been missing in her life. Do not be his protector; you are just continuing to be an accomplice in his crimes.

You are wrong to be such a coward. Maybe your H can rise to this occasion in your stead.

Do the right thing one way or another and maybe it will have the added benefit of you being able to move beyond this experience in your life and heal.

I just don't know that I can handle the guilt of possibly destroying his marriage
Lisa, you have already played a part in seriously affectinghis marriage. Telling his wife might actually be something that begins a salvage operation in their marriage. Or they may split.

In any case you know you should tell her. You won't be popular with anyone but God with this unselfish act of repentence. He's a pretty good person to be popular with.

All blessings.

Lisa,

First off, my apologies for taking so long to see this. I have been out of town for a few days. W had business in Chicago so DS and I joined her for a long weekend. Just returned late last night. A good time was had by all!

Oh, and I can’t take credit for what I wrote about the kind of friend OM should have been. I read something rather similar here on MB months ago. I would give proper credit if I could remember who wrote it first (JL maybe?)

You have my prayers. Indeed that’s about all I can add to what the others posted to you. I’m loath to change a word of any of it.

But, never one to be at a loss for words, my thoughts regarding telling OMM’s W about his A are, POJA it with your H. I see by the number of your posts you have been here a while so you probably already know the MB mantra that OMM is not your concern.

Telling his W could resurrect OMM’s presence. As Noodle points out, the feces may impact the rotating vanes (that’s the way we engineers would say it).

The important issue is doing what helps you and your M. Since you say you are having trouble letting “it” go after such a long time, you might indeed need to take some positive action. But first you should understand what this “it” is you are having trouble with. Forgetting about him? Fond memories? Anger at being used or at letting yourself be used? Boredom?

Can you parse this “it” better? You might then have a better understanding of what you actually need to let go and thus what to do about it.

Part of this “it” for my w is forgiving herself. Again, you have probably already heard forgiveness is a process. We imperfect humans have to take baby steps towards it each day. I start every morning with a prayer that I move forward in forgiveness towards my wife and yes, even OMM, and another prayer for my W to take a step towards forgiving herself. It’s slow going. I often don’t want to forgive the cad. Not at all. I have to force myself to say that prayer. Maybe you can say similar prayers with your H.

Forgiving yourself for missing him would be a good thing. It’s just a feeling. As long as you don’t act on it, and recognize it as just a feeling, neither good nor bad (feelings just are) it passes right on by.

My wife and I have talked about bad things I wish would happen to OMM. But I have recently begun to understand that these thoughts are a type of obsession for both of us. It keeps him in our awareness. Not a good thing. It’s easier said than done to just forget about him. But the sooner I do, the happier we both will be.

I have a take it or leave it suggestion. My wife wrote her NC letter to OMM’s W (knowing that OMM would see it too) and combined it with an apology to his W. She added some definite detail about what she was apologizing for. This is a sneaky way to let his W know about what has been going on. You might even assume (who knows for sure) she already knows or suspects something and that is why you feel an apology is necessary.

I think Dr Harley has is right in recommending an NC letter. It’s like seeing a contract in print. I was about to say vow, but we won’t go there right now. A written letter to his wife saying what you are sorry for and demanding absolute NC with her H will kill two birds with one epistle (to mix several metaphors).

I remember reading in a post of yours some time ago that everyone where you used to work knew about your A. Do they think you are the villain of the piece? I bet they don’t care one way or the other. You ought to know by now that anyone, friend or foe, who will not speak out against adultery is abetting it.

Scripture says (a paraphrase) if someone sins against you speak to him about it. If they do not repent take two more people with you and confront him. If they still persist, expose them to the whole community. There is no villainy here. You will be doing the right and wholesome thing by his wife and the community of all marriages, IMO.

T

Lisa, I don't think that telling the OMW is necessarily the best way to go. I have a dear friend who's H cheated on her, gave her genital warts, which led to pre cancer of the cervix, and she still doesn't realise how she got them. I think she thinks they are a naturally occuring virus. Should I tell her where she got them? Coz I know about her H's A? It's 10 yrs on and they are so much happier now than they used to be. I'm sure he would cheat again if the opportunity presented - he's that sort of man. So should I warn her? I have sometimes felt upset that she gets to live in oblivion about his A, and I have been so terribly devastated by my H's. I could tell her and make her as miserable as I am. She recently told me that she couldn't cope with discovering her H had been unfaithful - she added it was probably because they had never been close like my H and me. Fat lot of good being close did us!! Anyway, I'm glad she doesn't know. She's a good person and I believe the chances of your OMW getting a life threatening disease (aids) is low. BS's can suicide. What's the stats on that happening if you tell her?

What does really concern me is your saying you missed OM or had unresolved feelings for him. This is really sad for me. You were probably the very first WS that I had empathy for. Your open loathing of yourself and your hatred of what you'd done to your H really touched me and started my wheels turning on seeing the other side (occassionally but not often) of the coin.

My H really, really gets what he's done. He told me tonight that he thinks/knows he's scum and he doesn't know whether to tell me he knows or whether to keep doing everything in his power to prove how indispensible he is to me. He says it's a quandry. I'm not like other BSs, I don't want him to forgive himself for quite a long while to come. If he were to say one tiny positive thing about the OW I couldn't cope. He did say something a while back, which I knew was true. She cares for a severely retarded child well (her job). How can I begrudge him saying that? Well I do. Most of the time he says he wishes she'd fall of the side of the world. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'd push her if I didn't think anyone was looking!

You should be seeing this guy as the snake in the grass that he is. You shouldn't give a ratz a*ss how the A ended. You should have a doll with locks of his hair attached with pins sticking in its heart. (apology to all the christians - but we all have to be fervant about something).

I tend to believe that OMW will find out without your involvement - your family has been thru hell because of him. Telling her will only serve to drag you down further. (so much uncertainty attached to it - you could end up taking your life if it went too badly)

For all those people who think you should tell, do you tell people whose spouses are cheating on them? I know of one at the moment. Two actually. I say nothing.

AN

I disagree with anyname. I think that it is very disprespectful of the OMW to not inform her. She has a right to know. What she does with it is her problem and choice.

And, any friend that knows a spouse is cheating and doesn't tell the friend is not a friend at all but a fiend. JMHO

:::And, any friend that knows a spouse is cheating and doesn't tell the friend is not a friend at all but a fiend

Ah, if only life was that simple.

I didn't expect anyone to agree with me. But I cannot help the way I see it. No more than you can.

AN

AN,

Re telling: IMO, you are right; and you are wrong. How's that for clarity?

It can often be a tough call.

The A you mention that is 10 years past is a no-brainer. Nothing would be gained by exposure at this late date. Too much water under the bridge. However, I think as her dear friend, you might want to help her learn about the birds and the bees. She is a little too naive for her own good, I think. This is a much more dangerous world we live in now than when you and I were young and first learning about this icky stuff. I feel sorry for her that she does not know how she was infected. And her H must be a real cad not to tell her. He is controlling and manipulating her for his own selfish purposes. He is not even treating her as a friend let alone his wife.


"I'm sure he would cheat again if the opportunity presented - he's that sort of man."

The opportunities to cheat are manifold, each and every day. So do you really think he is, or will? It's been 10 years. If he hasn't in all that time maybe he is reformed.


"BS's can suicide. What's the stats on that happening if you tell her?"

Pretty low. Does happen, but it's rare. About the same incidence as WS suicide. It depends mostly on the availability of family and friends' support.


"I don't want him to forgive himself for quite a long while to come."

Why? If I may pick at this for a minute, you obviously hold a grudge. But I wonder if it is really solely against your H. It seems to be against the whole world at times. Perhaps it has roots in your cult upbringing?

Do you need to accept and forgive yourself first? Don't get me wrong. I have no idea how you deal with all the bad things in life. But why dwell forever on anything, whether good or bad? Life is for living. Read that philosophy book I mentioned.


"You should have a doll with locks of his hair attached with pins sticking in its heart. (Apology to all the Christians - but we all have to be fervent about something)."

No apology need here. I love it. I probably would have tried it myself if I had thought of it earlier, like when I wanted to arraign a meeting with OMM in a dark alley!


"For all those people who think you should tell, do you tell people whose spouses are cheating on them? I know of one at the moment. Two actually. I say nothing."

I think you ought to start a new thread on this. This has been discussed before on MB. I remember scanning some old posts dealing with it. The consensus is not telling is abetting, with exceptions due to individual extenuations. But I wonder what current members think.

Start with yourself. If H was having another A, would you want someone, anyone, to tell you? (Assume it was done in the right, caring and supportive way.)

My own answer is yes. I want to know. I deserve to know. I will not be played for a fool or manipulated for anyone else's purposes any more or ever again. And further, W and I would not be improving our M if I still did not know what was wrong. I was in martial limbo for ten years and did not know why. I deserved the truth. After I started suspecting, I knew the truth would hurt but I wanted a better marriage with my beautiful wife. I didn't care what fire and brimstone I had to pass through. And my wife deserves a better marriage too.

And for the record, OMM's wife told me she was relived to find out the truth. I talked to her after she and I received anonymous letters. I already knew so all I did was provide some proof. She said a whole bunch of clues clicked into place and she thanked me for giving her a chance to work on her marriage and not have to continue thinking she was crazy. (OMM still continues lying through his teeth, though.)

Edited to add: AN, I see where you already started the suggested thread. Cool. Great minds run in parallel veins...
T

<small>[ November 09, 2004, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: Thos ]</small>

I appreciate the posts. I haven't been on in a few days because I really got upset last time I posted here. I have done a lot of soul searching over the last few days and have come up with some things about myself that I just haven't been able to see before. It's painful to admit some of these things to anyone. I have blamed OM for the A more than I have myself. Yes, he may be a sexual predator but I still remember when he came to work at my former office approx 4 years ago how uncomfortable he made me because he was always flirtatious...not with just me either.

If I ever found myself in close proximity to him I would get away as soon as possible. You see, I believe that God gives us discernment for a reason and "I'm" the one who chose to ignore the warnings. I can blame my marriage and I can blame OM all I want but the fault lies within myself. No, I will not tell OMM's wife at this point. To do that now would only be to get revenge and I can't live with myself for doing that. You see, I do believe in the scripture that says "Vengence belongs to God and he will repay". I have paid and OMM will pay too.

I appreciate everyone's advice about telling OM's wife but I can't do it. I have been fighting this thing for a year and a half since D-day and it's time that I take full responsibility for what I did and quit blaming everything and everyone else.

Thos and anyname.....Thanks for your comments. anyname...don't be let down by my admission of "feelings" for OM still. My feelings were resentfulness and bitterness which were misplaced. I encourage you to go to www.guyfinley.com website. This is helping me so much. I am learning, so slowly, that I have to take responsibility for my own life and quit looking to others to fill this void that I have in my life that caused the A to begin with.

God knows I have looked in all the wrong places to this point but I believe that there is healing for me and my family through it all.

Please continue to pray for me and my family. I'm feeling very much at peace tonight because I realize that this battle is with myself and not OMM!!!! That is a victory within itself.

Thanks again.