Hi all,

My WW has been going out to dance clubs for about 6 month without me while I stayed home with the kids or after she got off work on Fridays and Sat. Anyway long story short I caught her with OM dancing and kissing, and busted them leaving on there way to his place. Since then she has been in a separation mode and I have proof that she is staying at a house with two guys overnight and leaves the next morning. That I feel is A number 1. I have been doing Plan A but she still goes out to clubs and on Fri and Sat won't come home till late.

A number 2 I feel is with her best girlfriend. My WW and I have know her for over ten years and we used to hangout with her and her XH. Here's the thing the girlfriend just recently got a D because she was "unhappy". So then she's out to clubs and now has a boyfriend. Now imagine that, my wife has now been "unhappy" and is out to clubs with the girlfriend evertime she calls. My WW says that her girlfriend is the only one that loves her and that she can talk to. So my question is. Is it possible that she is having a EA with the girlfriend, a PA with the OM and I don't know what with me? If that is the case what can I do break the hold of the girlfriend over my WW that way my WW won't go out to the clubs? Any thoughts anyone?

native00,

Several marriage counselors have expressed the opinion that may WS's have a very significant friend that acts as the catalyst to the betrayal. This friend of the same or opposite sex is usually divorced and has huge anger issues with the concept of M. Misery loves company and they feed off of each others needs. It is imperative that the "friend" is separated from the WS if a D is to be avoided.

<small>[ November 18, 2004, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Cymanca ]</small>

Hi Cym,

I can totally see how the girlfriend is a bad influence on her, heck my WW is doing the exact thing that her girlfriend did to her XH. I just don't know how to break a 10 year hold with her. There is no way I have a high enough Love account with my WW right now. Yet my WW GF is always calling her to get her to go to the clubs. If I tried to talk to the GF I know that she would tell my WW and that would push her way over the edge. I just don't know how to break them up!!

You know the saying - "birds of a feather flock together"? I'm not sure if it's so much that your WW has an EA going with her girlfriend, but they have been best friends for years and in turn when her friend started to be unhappy and hurt she wanted to help. In order to help one way was to get her friend out to have fun and be happy. Unfortunately, it seems that in trying to help her friend she is losing herself too. It is not easy to be the happy married couple in a group of single friends. Everyone else is out running, having fun, meeting others, etc., except the married couple. Well, that's fine, many married couples are great with that, but when one partner is trying to help her hurting friend you don't bring the other partner, it's just like pouring salt on a wound. Eventually, if the person isn't careful, they fall into that party life right with the person they are trying to help. Sort of like when you feel lots of stress because someone you care about is stressed. I think that this desire to help her friend find happiness has helped her lose herself and is partially to blame for her ending in this A of hers.

Now, all that could be way way off, but that's just my initial thought.

You say you are separated - ok, so be separated. Do your own thing, do lots of Plan A when you do talk to her or see her, and work on you. Don't tell her your every move, but do include her with the kids. You can even plan some fun time for the kids and call her and say "the kids are I are going to such and such, would you like to join us?" If not, fine, go and have fun. She will notice and start to wonder and eventually she will start to come around a bit more. Then you can start showing her exactly what she is missing.

I hope this helps some. All my best.

Native00,

I tried to separate my WW from her new "bestest" friend with an email begging her to back off. I got a blistering email in return. Found out later that my WW helped write her friend's email back to me. They are still very much together in body and spirit.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just don't know how to break a 10 year hold with her. There is no way I have a high enough Love account with my WW right now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't try to break the hold, try to increase the draw she feels toward you and then try to help her differentiate between her life and her friends. I have a friend that has a lot of drama in her life and causes me stress at times I don't need. I don't stop being her friend, she needs my friendship and she's been a great friend of mine for 12 yrs. However, when he drama gets to be too much on me I step back a bit so it doesn't affect my marriage. In time your wife can learn what she is potentially messing up with you and start to learn how to separate her feelings from her friends.

As for the love points - so get them! Get a sitter for the night and take her out to dinner and then dancing (not the normal clubs she goes to though). Start "dating" again! Make weekend day time plans with the kids and invite her along, show her how much fun her FAMILY is. Walks on the beach with the kids running just slightly ahead to find seashells and running back to show you how they can hear the water in them. Take her to see the sun set. Only you can get those love points, so do it.

Hang in there, this too shall pass.

Thanks Princess,

That does sound like it could be true. We were both young and had kids early so we didn't really do the young out to the clubs thing. And now that she's into it she can't get out. I can see that there friendship was good, but now I believe that my WW GF is a bad influence on her. I just don't know how to seperate them. Currently my WW and I are still together but she's wanting to do "a separation to figure out what marriage is" right out of SAA!

I believe this whole thing about friends influence is real. My WW changed overnight in my eyes because she started to hang with a younger, party loving crowd. My W is married w/child, no reason to be running with that crowd. Before long it was A city. Now she recreates history and tells me she hasn't had "those feelings" for mr fopr years. Yeah right. Pure Fog.

If you lay with the dogs long enough you are going to get fleas. Does ANYBODY have some advice for myself and native on how to break up these relationships with so called "friends" who have our W's under their influence? It amazes me that WS will forsake all other long term friends, family, and their own H's and be so influenced by new "friends" that they meet.

Bear,

I don't understand it either. I'm sure you and I both have friends that are similar to us. That is probably a definition of a friends. My WW GF is the same age as us, 2 kids we have 3, and we've known her for 10 years. Your situation does sound a little strange in that she's hanging with a younger crowd. Maybe she just wants to feel young again? I agree that somehow we need to break this up some how!! I have to break the A with the OM and the relationship with my WW GF. I need some advice!

Really, I feel like I am fighting a battle on many fronts. OM, but I am not too worried about that, The A was exposed, she hasn't seen him in couple months though I always worry about phone contact. My WW's fogginess, rebuiling our M w/someone who is so freaking confused, and to top it off I got her "friend(s)", in their mid 20's, who keep asking W when she is going to come out with them.

I am a complete "a**" for restricting her social life. Y'know, I am an overbearing, untrusting H (hello, that is what happens when you have A, no trust). To W's credit she hasn't gone out on the town in over a month. But they still call, text, constantly.

Forget NC with OM, this is just as bad. All it does is reminds WW of the "party life". That is OVER. One way or the other. Either she is M, or she is single mom who is two tired, broke, and time restricted to even think about having a "social" life.

Talk about having to break the fantasy. How did this all get started? I don't know, a MLC? the turning 30 syndrome? You got me. I think it may be just more than filling someone's needs. I really think with her the "need well" was bottomless. I look around at the other M couples I know, and many of those H's are complete jerks. I was nothing like that, yet I am the one w/the WW.

I understange the battle being waged on 2 fronts. I was never the H that told his wife that she couldn't go out. I never wanted to be a controlling H so I never said "No I think you should stay here with me and the kids".

My MC says that maybe I should have set some boundaries, she was like a 5 year old. She was testing the waters to see how much she can get away with. No I wish I would have kept her home more. Either way the damage is done and now we both have to find a way to break up the party life.

I've turned to my Pastor and am hoping that our religious background will make her see that this is not good for her. Bear do you guys go to church?

No, not like we used to. I feel bad right now because I am very angry with THE BIG MAN for dealing me this hand. I can honestly say that I feel like I don't deserve what WW is putting me through. I look around at other people's M's. I loved my W, cared for her, supported her the best I could and still got slammed. Sure, their are things I wish I did differently, but in the whole scheme of things I was a pretty good guy.

I would pretty much have to say that W being a very religious person and then deciding to have an A is an oxymoron. The two just don't go together.

I truly believe it was hanging with the single crowd and their live for today attitude is what eroded are M to the point of it being weak enough to be vulnerable. I to gave W a long leesh, enough to hang herslf with. My W, in her "wise" state of mind, claims that the partying started because she wasn't happy. I look back and differ greatly in opinion. She probably was unhappy, I don't doubt that, but that unhappiness grew 100fold when the partying started. An otherwise good person can only be self centered for so long before it eats them up inside and starts to destroy them. Evidenced by her slow erosion into what she is now and also that her and OM were starting to lose some of that luster by the time I discovered the A. The guilt was eating her up, now it is consuming her. She can't look straight at me, her family, or anyone else she devasted by this. She basically sits up in her room at P's house and waits, for what I don't know. I, her P's and Bro's have all tried to reach out to her only to have our hands bit. Sad story.

Plan A is only met by visciousness. What I am trying now is to move on, so to speak, in the hope that she sees that life does go on and she is welcome to join me. A little game of chase is on, and I am trying to get her to chase me. Our MC recommended this to me as she is the only person who W has opened up to and only one who knows what she is thinking. She thinks that as long as I am there in a fallback position, W will not come out of this funk because there is no motivation to. I'm putting a lot of faith in her, I hope she is right.

Bear,

I too believe that nobody deserves becoming a BS. However I don't believe it too be Got that allowed this too happen. I also thought I was being a good husband, but I also read SAA in three days and it has opened my eyes to a few things!

I also believe that being in that "night life" without your spouse is a definate bad idea! I guess we're both playing the game now... trying to put on a good act and doing the Plan A. Although yours seems like it's starting to become a Plan B. I truly hope your situation works out. It seems like the A for you is not there anymore. I still believe that my WW is still seeing the OM.
We both have to stay strong, for ourselves and the kids at least.

I hear ya. M's are difficult enough without having to deal with the outside pressures we are. For my W, and most all WS, it was escapism. She started to hang out w/singles, adapted their lifestyles, then values, and that was all she wrote so to speak. Now the challenge I battle is not so much the OM as some here are, rather that single lifestyle and overcoming the this enormous wall put between us by the A. A battle I am ready to fight, just she has to want it as well. She has a long struggle just with herself. Til she can deal with that, recovery is not going to happen.

The single lifestyle is an unattainable thing for both our WS. Have you thought about what life w/o you is going to be like for her? I would bet the clubbing would stop, she will be responsible for 3 kids (assuming W gets custody, which seems to happen). Kids put a damper on the social life as any parent knows. Now imagine what kind of social life you would have if it was just you and your 3 kids. How is your W going to have a social life? She won't, and she'll realize it, hopefully not too late. That is the cold dose of reality my W is dealing with, not a good picture. Your W's OM may want her, but not a package deal, rare is the man who wants an instant family.

I bet now she is not thinking that way. That is why I have been advised to take the course I have, a reality check for WS. Break the fantasy, not just of OM, but of the lifestyle itself. A glimpse at the consequences, a removal of the support structure, but an invitation to come back.

It might sound like I am leaving the love building portion out of my plan. I am not, that is phase two. W needs to be receptive of my love and affection. But until she sees the other choice, and rejects it (she will, I believe this, who really wants that life? She still has love for me, admits it) I cannot start to deposit love units. I will provide a soft place to land.

This is an open invitation, if anyone out there reads this and says, that will never work, or been there done that failed badly, please let me know an alternate way. I am still open to plan A, but was advised by MC to get her off the fence and start chasing me. I just don't see that happening in a plan A scenario. I see a lot of cake eating and fence sitting on that path.

Native-- Tell me, is W living at home? If she is, how is she able to go out? Aren't there 3 young ones to care for? Don't enable her to go out by caring for them while she is going out. She needs to be made responsible for those kids. How you do that is a good question. My W is at P's house, who refuse to sit. No babysitters allowed either.

Can you find away to break this cycle? My BIL years ago was running around on his W. Running with the guys. He told me the hardest part was not giving up skirt chasing, it was not answering that phone when his single buddies called, or just telling them no. Catch is, he had to make that choice, he was shown the option of life on his own away from his son. He chose his family. Guess what, enough no's or I cant's and that phone stopped ringing, they left him alone. Why? Because singles live for today. They were not going to wait around long for him to come out. He was soon dropped from that social circle. It worked. He has now been married for over 6 yrs and #3 is on the way.

Is there some way you could use this?

Bear,

My W works on Fri and Sat nights until 11:30. That just is the way it is, I have the kids then. She still lives in the house with us. Those are the days that she usually goes out. She has her GF call at work and then they go out together. So it's pretty easy for her just to leave. I've tried asking her if she wanted me to get a movie for us to watch but she says no. So I have no way of stopping her really, she can choose to come home or not, she's not choosing that. And from her point of view the kids don't really suffer cuz there in bed anyway. She is so into the FOG that she doesn't realize that if she got the kids she wouldn't be able to go out.

Hmmm..

This may be a bad idea..I can see some problems with it..but have you considered going out yourself and thereby forcing HER to stay in?

[hiding in the bushes counts as "OUT" right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ]

Noodle

Noodle,

If I told her that I wanted to go out all she'd say is make sure you get a sitter. She still wouldn't come home.

Tell her BEFORE she goes to work..you are not going out, I am.

What would she say to that?