Folks:

I have a question for BS who have taken the WS back. Does it ever make any difference to you all if the WS comes back to you "by default"? IN this I mean that the OM/OW dumps them or wants to reconcile with their own BS. IN Harley's SAA book, in his case study, the BS (male) only got his WS back "by default" after she was no longer wanted by the OM. Noone ever seems to address this point. DOes it just not matter?

I know that people say here that it does not matter why the WS comes back, just that they do so the marriage can be recovered. In reality I just don't get this. AM I wrong for not agreeing with this? One of my rules for reconciliation was profound remorse and a committment to "want" to be with me. I know that I NEVER would have taken my WS back if she came back by default and not on her own. WHat do you all think about this? Does it not really matter in the end? Just curious. Thank you in advance for your comments.

Hi LM,

For me,I would not have taken WH back except for one reason only: he wanted to be with ME again.I would not have acepted him back if the homewrecker dumped him.I have always told my WH that I will not be his second choice.He would have to have been the one to end the adultery and return,100% ready and willing to make the marriage better.Period.

O

I wouldn't say I would NOT take him back by default, but I do think it would be much more difficult to trust his sincerity in that case.

My thinking may be out of whack, but my self-respect is already "sore", having recanted on my life thesis that I would never stay married to a man who cheated in any way. I get shudders thinking of pushing it any further than I have already.

Good question!
PM

I think this issue has been addressed here now and then, LM. And there are BS here on MB who are unhappy and still feel like "second choice" because the WS came home cuz he/she got dumped and had no place to go.

I think in such situations it is harder for the BS to rebuild trust. just my feeling.

~ Snow

I would not take my WH back if the OW dumped him. I want to be #1 in someone's life not second.
I am choosing to file for DV because I know I deserve better and will find it. I will never be someone's second choice. NEVER!!!!!!!

LM,

This topic is one that is debated over and over, and discussed almost constantly. You clearly have not read enough posts. The "second best" syndrome is a biggie to over come. Often it is kids that bring the spouse back, in fact in cases where there are no children Harley suggests that an OC is a good reason to just leave.

But, the point is that "second best" is often not the reason people come back once the "fog" clears and that is why Harley proposes that people try and rebuild if they even think a little that they want. If the marriage is rebuilt the BS will NOT be second best. Further, one can file for divorce ANYTIME so why not take the time to see if "second best" is really true. It becomes relatively easy to tell after awhile.

It is an issue, sometimes it cannot be overcome, more times it can. If your soon to be exW had someone before you, are you "second best?" No, not necessarily. If she never gets over the old BF then yes you were and you should leave her.

If one were to carry this logic further. The OM/OW is "second best" because after all the BS was before them. So if one is counting if the WS comes back, the BS finished "first and third" which is better than second. The problem with this stuff is "logic" is not useful. Actions and reality are very useful, hence the BS often takes the WS back and the marriage is rebuilt and there is no "second best". However, during recovery I would hazard a guess and say that 90% of the BS feel this at one time or another, and struggle with it.

It is one of the main hurdles to overcome during recovery and rebuilding and it takes work on the part of the WS to overcome it.

But, if you read the posts by the many WS's here you will see that once the fog clears the BS is not "second best" but has shown to be far more than the WS ever expected or realized and the OP is found to be wanting in many ways.

What the WS is often guilty of is wanting the "fantasy" that the affair offers more than they do the reality of the OP.

"Them's the facts that prevail."

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Does it ever make any difference to you all if the WS comes back to you "by default"? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It does to me! If my husband were with me because OW dumped him, I would not have been able to take him back. In fact, on d-day my first reaction was to tell him to get out. Then I cried and asked if he would consider working things out, he said no. I asked him if he loved her he said no that he didn't love anyone but his girls, said he didn't love me and didn't even love himself. Later he told me that he would always love me, but he still didn't want to stay. He spent an hour or two standing a few feet from the front door. He never opened it or walked out. He knew that if he walked out the door that he would never be allowed back in. Over the last year or two, I have come to the same conclusion. If he would have gone to her that night, I could never have emotionally been able to let him back. It has been two years and I am still not over it, and sometimes I doubt if I ever will be, that is just how much it destroyed me.

Even now, when I ask him about the affair he says that if was a lie, that it was based on who she portrayed herself to be. She told him that she was a struggling single mom whose kids were her main focus in life. She didn't work but told him that she was battling cancer, so he assumed she was on disability. She manipulated him a lot, listening to all his problems and acting supportive while telling him that she was his answer, she could help him get over me and start over. When the truth came out, she was an alcoholic living in HUD housing, making ends meet with child support and food stamps and the cancer she was battlling? A nevus on her foot and back. She also had a history of Meth use and many, many men. My question is what if she had been as perfect as she portrayed herself to be, would he be with me? He said yes, and when he stayed on D-day he still thought she was what she said she was. But for me it has been a real struggle.

In the end, I don't want to be with someone who wants me because the other person didn't pan out, or because I happen to have children with him or because I actually have a job so that he can have extra money for the things he like to do (something he wouldn't have had with her). I can't settle for being the "boobyprize" The hard part for me is convincing myself that I am not just someone that was settled for. If he wasn't happy with me before the affair, how can I trust that he wants me now. I haven't changed, I am just reacting to being treated better. He says he is the one that has changed.

Lemonman, I support your desicion to leave your wife. You know in your heart if you can forgive, forget and move on. If you can't trust that she knows she made a mistake and will do everything possible to redeem herself, then you have to move on. Everyone is an individual, some can pick up and move on, some are paralysed and some have to end the relationship. Only you know what is right for you and will make you happy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Cathy

I took my H back provisionally. A 6 month trial. After the first 6 months H was happy and dedicated to the marriage and I was even ~more~ miserable and uncertain. Recovery sucks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . Being recovered ROCKS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Meadowlark.... you and I think alike in a lot of ways. I would not tolerate a second D-day..... nope.

Why? Because I ~know~ I am worth my spouse's faithfulness. No "default" wife, not me.

Pep

Great question, highly debated.
I think it's a personal choice, I've seen it go both ways. Frequently, I may add.

I am like Pep in the sense I wouldn't have been able to stomach a false recovery. This isn't baseball, it's not 3 strikes you're out.

How many chances, under what circumstances, are all up to the individual.

As I've said before, and I'll repeat as many times as necessary to make you understand my position..I know I am quite fortunate, and I never forget that.

The feeling of second choice, is inevitable. My H dumped OW, and committed, and I never had a single case of withdrawal, renewed contact, or false recovery, the initial feeling of second choice...I think is common across the board.

I also had a lot working FOR me though, meaning, in reality...the OW...in OUR case...no blanket statement was a MUCH better fit for my H...in MY eyes. You can look back on my posts, I admitted it at the time, and still stand by it.

We have no children together, we are both financially independant, meaning we could both make it without the other. We make equal money, have equal assets, and would have no squabble splitting any marital assets.

He says he loves me, and I was his first choice when he walked me down the aisle and would always be his first choice.

There's a lot of my history you probably never read, but my M had died to me, and I asked for a D 4 times. I was terribly unhappy. For an abundance of reasons, none that were directly related to my H, he just got the blunt of my horrible depression.

This is turning out to be too long, but bottom line is in September of last year, I developed some freaky issue with my heart. I lost the normal sinus rythym. Lone Atrial Fibrillation. Diagnosis, treatment, and knowing this is NO cure....put me in a pretty deep depression, I truly felt I had no quality of life to offer anyone, including myself. I fell into a deep hole. It never occured to my GP, my Cardiologist, or my Electrophysiologist to look out for the signs of depression that often begin with the onset of a heart condition.

I PUSHED my H away.... don't mistake that with PUSHING him into an A..he pulled that brilliant stunt all by himself. But hindsight, allows me understand my role in making the M VULNERABLE for the A.

Sorry for all the info....sometimes it helps ...like in your case...this AM.

Take Care,
BIJ

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> I took my H back provisionally. A 6 month trial. After the first 6 months H was happy and dedicated to the marriage and I was even ~more~ miserable and uncertain. Recovery sucks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . Being recovered ROCKS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Meadowlark.... you and I think alike in a lot of ways. I would not tolerate a second D-day..... nope.

Why? Because I ~know~ I am worth my spouse's faithfulness. No "default" wife, not me.

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, does this really "jive" with the MB philosophy? What if your FWH was feeling that his EN's, etc were not being met and he strayed again. WHat about your kids staying in an intact family? (assuming you have them). WOuldn't good ole Harley preach to you to try and re-re-recover your marriage for the kids sake? JUst curious on your opinions.

Well, does this really "jive" with the MB philosophy?

YES

What if your FWH was feeling that his EN's, etc were not being met and he strayed again.

His mistake ...

WHat about your kids staying in an intact family? (assuming you have them).

2 kids.. one still living at home... My kids are not my only attachment to my husband.

WOuldn't good ole Harley preach to you to try and re-re-recover your marriage for the kids sake?

No. He wouldn't preach. He'd offer a plan if a second recovery were my choice. I would choose out... like you.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> Well, does this really "jive" with the MB philosophy?

YES

What if your FWH was feeling that his EN's, etc were not being met and he strayed again.

His mistake ...

WHat about your kids staying in an intact family? (assuming you have them).

2 kids.. one still living at home... My kids are not my only attachment to my husband.

WOuldn't good ole Harley preach to you to try and re-re-recover your marriage for the kids sake?

No. He wouldn't preach. He'd offer a plan if a second recovery were my choice. I would choose out... like you.

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I can ALWAYS count on a succinct to the point response from you Pep. I love it....LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lemonman and others,
I responded earlier to this thread, then left but continued to think about it. I realized that I answered assuming that D-day and the faithfulness by default came at the same time. (Does this make sense at all?)

Actually, I don't think I'd be around for the default faithfulness if it happened AFTER D-day. In other words, I don't think I'd do a Plan A at all, nor a Plan B.

It's me or the highway. I won't knowingly compete with another woman for any man. That part of my life thesis I will cling to.

My current struggle is dealing with adultery that occurred without my knowledge and had been "over" for several years. That's hard enough; it's changed who I am in less than 3 months.

For those BS's who choose to try to save their marriage even when the WS is still cheating, I say, "God bless you." But it's not for me. Maybe I'm too weak. Maybe I'm too strong. But it's just not me.

PM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by papermom:
<strong>
It's me or the highway. I won't knowingly compete with another woman for any man. That part of my life thesis I will cling to.


For those BS's who choose to try to save their marriage even when the WS is still cheating, I say, "God bless you." But it's not for me. Maybe I'm too weak. Maybe I'm too strong. But it's just not me.

PM </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you for your response. I sometimes feel I am the only one who thinks this way. I know this is not really a fair question to ask on this board. I for one do not "BUY" the "fog and alien behavior" principles, and PLan A/PLan B stuff as practiced here. So in reality, if people disagree on this principle, then it unfair to them to ask this question. WHat I see as "weak and needy" behavior is seen to others as being "strong" and "fighting for marriage". WHat I may see as "second best" is seen as to others as "fog" or "alien behavior". It is all perpsective, so I now realize that questions like this are not fair coming from me.

Thank you for all responses.

Your question helped me to focus and formulate my own stance. That's certainly fair and helpful, and I, for one, appreciate it.
PM

It's funny, as bad as I felt in so many different ways, I never really thought of things in those terms.

I went through all the mistreatment and disrespect, I even watched my FWW as she literally lay bed ridden for two days after the OM broke it off with her.

For some reason through it all I never had the feeling of being second best. I just knew that she was completely insane and that she would come out of it at some point and realize what she had given up.

I'm not that cocky, it's just that with my W I could see her confusion through the whole process. She never told me that she didn't love me and it was like she knew she was making a huge mistake right from the start. I knew she was an emotional mess before any of this started so I looked at it as more like an illness she was suffering from.

Lemonman
see below for a direst quote from he man himself taken from the question and answer section of this website. I knew I had read this here, just took me a while to find it.


"One of the most remarkable discoveries of my career as a marriage counselor is that marriages can thrive after infidelity. I would never have guessed it, based on my own reactions. My wife, Joyce, let me know early on that if I ever had an affair, she would not divorce me, she would KILL me (maybe that's why I have taken such extraordinary precautions to avoid it). My own reaction to an affair by Joyce would be as drastic. But I wouldn't kill her, I'd just never see or talk to her again."


So as you can see, Pep's views do fit with MB. Take a read of the question and answer section. Even the great man himself has similar feelings to most of us. However, he offers the tool that he has had sucess in helping people recover for those who wish to use them.

C&S

Humility is a great virtue that is undervalued in our culture.

It would not affect my decision. If my wife wanted to return, what motivated her would affect our recovery, but not my decision.

I would try to take her back in the name of loyalty and compassion.

It's purely academic though, for me. I don't expect it to happen.

And...

I'm going to get rid of her soon if she doesn't try to come home.

GC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by starman:
<strong> I'm not that cocky, it's just that with my W I could see her confusion through the whole process. She never told me that she didn't love me and it was like she knew she was making a huge mistake right from the start. I knew she was an emotional mess before any of this started so I looked at it as more like an illness she was suffering from. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I think your post kind of clearly indicates what I thought. I disagree with the basic principle of "alien" behavior and "illness", so in reality I Should not be suprised by my answers here. Thank you for the post.

Is it a threadjack if I ask another question here?

I'm seeing SH referred to as a near-God in many threads, and I wonder (I actually think I'm hoping) he is embarrassed by that. No doubt he has helped many individuals to grow and many marriages to thrive. I would call him myself if I could afford it. But, really, isn't it going a bit overboard to canonize him?

Just a thought,
PM