My WH as you know had a four year affair with a much younger woman who was married and has two young children. I am sure the A is over because I have now seen both a print-out of my H's cellphone plus a print-out of Ow's cellphone and they certainly don't seem to be calling each other.

Anyway shortly after d-day my WH let slip that OW had moved and was playing at another golf club and he mentioned the golf club's name (they met at my H's golf club). I checked on the internet and found that only she was a member and not her husband - which I found strange.

When he phoned OW to break things off with her, he did it in front of me and when he said goodbye, he said "give my best to Johan" (her husband).

Today I decided to phone Johan pretending to be someone else . . I blocked my cellphone number from appearing on his cellphone. I just told him that I was looking for "his wife's" number. He told me that they were divorced and had been divorced for over a year. My WH has always led me to believe that they were still married.

Why would he do that? Pretend that she was still married? I want to challenge him on this tonight but am not sure how to go about it. I thought I could perhaps say someone phoned me to tell me that they were friends of this couple and that the A with my H caused their break up.

What do you guys think. I don't want him to know that I phoned the husband but I do want him to know that I know they are divorced.

Any suggestions or help. I have no compunction in lying to him. . .he has again lied to me by letting me think they were still married.

Hi Enid,

Honesty works both ways when you are working on rebuilding your M with your H...

I'd let your H know that you know that the OW is divorced and that it hurts you to know that he lied to you again. Use "I feel... " type statements rather than accusing him...

I know this is hard for you as your H isn't willing to go to MC with you...

Semper Fi,
RIF

That's exactly my problem, how do I let him know without telling him I phoned the OW's husband. You must remember that we are 12 months into recovery and the last thing he would expect me to do is phone the OW's husband. I just had a gut feeling about their marriage and wanted to check it out.

I need help before I go home tonight and face him. . .because I am going to face him. . .I will do it without LBing. But I have got to do it in such a way that he doesn't know I contacted the OW's husband. That will be a huge LB for him and will lead to a major fight which I want to avoid.

Please help before the end of the day!!!! I have five hours left at work and I need as much help as I can get with this problem.

Enid,

RH (radical honesty) s/b in play here. You did not feel safe so you did some checking. Ok, you had your reasons. If you are both in real recovery, then you s/b able to tell him you found out the OW has been divorced for some time, was he aware? Preempt that by asking to talk with him and in a calm voice let him know you are scared with some info you have. Let him calm you down. Then tell him the above.

If he asks how you know, tell him what you did. If he doesn't ask, don't volunteer. Watch his actions. You could ask him before you tell and after you let him know you are scared if he can handle OW info without hurting your martial recovery. If he hestitates, then pull back. If he seems genuinely concerned for your pain, tell him.

You decide. This is a delicate area.

take care,
L.

I know that he knows she is divorced. They were divorced before the A ended so there is no way he didn't know. He deliberately kept that information from me. Why????

I don't know. Ask him. How do you know he knows?

L.

There is no way you can be having sex with someone and they don't mention the little fact that they are getting divorced. Plus he was still having the A with her when she moved out of her husbands house and moved in with her parents.

He would have to be an idiot not to know. Of course he knew. . .he just omitted to tell me. . .in fact he went out of his way to convince me that they were still married.

^

Who knows what he is thinking? It could be because he feels guilty for her marriage and family breaking up.

How has the rest of your recovery gone?

Do you know that your H doesn't have a secret cell phone?

Why would he lie about her being D. Because then he looks like more of a scmuck for contributing to the demise of their M?? Or that he is still in the A and not leaving you right now for his or their own reasons. I hope that isn't the case.

Does he understand the concept of Radical Honesty?

It seems odd that he would get angry if you contacted the OW's XH...maybe he'd get angry because his lie would be found out and that there is more to this than he wants you to know. Seems like if he has nothing to hide none of that should bother him. He shouldn't give a crap about whether OW is D'd or not if he has been focusing on you and your M.

Maybe he would want you to think that she is still M as a decoy to keep you from thinking any A is still ongoing....Can you find out if she still golfs at his club...why haven't you taken up golf?

If your gut is telling you that they still may be involved with OW then I wouldn't let him know that you know she is D'd yet...but let him lie to you again about it adn watch...and do more searching first.

<small>[ December 08, 2004, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: Trix ]</small>

Could be that he felt if you knew she was actually D that it would be that much easier for the A to go on, maybe he wanted you to have that little bit of security thinking the OW was still with her H. Just my .03

No I don't think he has a secret cellphone. I got a printout of the OW's cellphone account and any number she called regularly, I checked. . .none of them were my H.

I do think that maybe he didn't want me to think that he was the cause of their divorce. He went out of his way to keep telling me that they were still a couple.

No, he has no idea about radical honesty. I have tried to explain the concept to him but if he thinks he can get away with a lie he will not hesitate to lie. And he is a very convincing liar. He can look you straight in the eye and swear and anything you name that he is telling the truth meanwhile he is lying.

She doesn't belong to the same golf club as him anymore. She moved to another golf club.

My gut feeling tells me that it is over. She works full day and my H is home every evening when I get home. He never goes out without me and never spends weekends away from home.

Well, then maybe Gadgetolds is right. But it seems like such a stupid lie for him to continue to tell.

At least it puts a more positive spin on things.

Please, how do I deal with this. How do I confront him with the knowledge that I know that the OW is divorced without telling him I phoned the OW's ex husband. I know that telling him that I phoned the ex husband will be a major mistake and lead to a huge fight. I don't want to fight. . .I just want to know why he lied to me about them being divorced.

enid,

Wh sometimes really don't "Make sence"........... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Even when my husbands affair was over, he lied to me about something very stupid. It still doesn't "Make Sence". (he doesn't "understand" himself)

He "knew" that OW had a "new" car. He knew it because he had seen OW driving past his "work place" in her new car and yet he lied to me and told me he didn't know.

I found out because I drove past OW house and I saw her new car in the driveway. (I wasn't aware that my husband knew about this new car)

I did have a "strange gut feeling" at that time. I just couldn't explain what it was.

We were thinking about getting "me" a new car at that time and I kept on telling him that I wanted a Landrover.....(the same car that OW had)I wanted to see if he knew that OW had the same car because I hadn't spoken to OWH yet!

He came up with all kinds of excuses why we shouldn't get "that" car!!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> (I felt that something was not right)

A few days later I talked with OWH and he asked if I knew that OW had driven past my husbands workplace with her "new car" and that my husband has seen her? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I confronted him and he lied............then sometime later he told me that it wasn't important to him and that he had "forgotten" about that................
But he sure "remembered" when I wanted the same car as OW had!

This will never and never has made sence to me............he was either lying to me and was still in contact with OW or he was lying because he was "fogged up"............. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

In your situation it might be the same thing. It's "uncomfortable" for him to talk about this..........he doesn't want any "hastles" due to the fact that OW is now "free" .....and you might "feel insecure" with this fact or he is still in contact and he doesn't/didn't want you to know that there was no OWH "watching out for her!"

It sounds/feels better for the BS when they presume that OW is still married and OWH is also there to monitor what the OW does........(did that make sence)

I myself also felt better when I knew that OW was still together with OWH.
When I heard that they were getting a divorce and OW tried to contact my husband the world was "twirling!!!"

This situation is uncomfortable, knowing that OW is "free" to do as she wants..............and that there is no one watching out on her. This is where we either have to "trust our" WS's completely or "watch out" until we "feel safe again".

Every "lie" from our WS's will "kill recovery".............and as long as our WS lie, there is actually no recovery at all.

Get this point over to your WS. This means "Honesty" from BOTH sides. Even if it might be uncomfortable for you, you'll have to be completly honest also.

I told my husband everytime Í had contact with OWH! He didn't like that, that's for sure but within time, he realized that he wouldn't get away with any lie...........

I didn't accept any lie what soever!!! I confronted him right away and my husband got angry everytime. I now know that this was not MBer like but I didn't know MBers at that time.

I just made it totally clear that I wouldn't take any lies from his side without confronting him.

I feel safe again and I don't get the feeling that my husband lies to me anymore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> (it feels "right" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

bb

Did you call all the numbers on OW's cellphone bill to make sure your husband doesn't have another phone? I would not confront until I knew he wasn't hiding anything.

Enid,

How are you doing today?

L.

Hi enid

Maybe I'm wrong but in my experience (in my H's A), a lot of lying happened there.

Maybe your husband doesn't know she was really divorced?
I know it doesn't make any sense, but then again a lot of lies had been said each way I guess.

Let us know

I did check all the numbers that OW phoned and none of them were my H. I confronted him last night by saying that "someone" had phoned me and told me that they were divorced.

He was his usual evasive self and said he didn't know they were divorced when he broke up with her. He only broke up with her a year ago and according to the OW's H they have been separated for over a year and got divorced this year. My WH said knew they were talking about separating but they weren't divorced yet. I then said to him, she spoke to him in March this year, surely she mentioned then that she was divorced. He just kept evading the issue and acting like he knew they had finally got divorced but that it had nothing to do with us or our situation.

I told him that he was partly responsible for their divorce which he emphatically denied. I said that a marriage that had problems certainly couldn't solve their problems while one party was having an affair. I said that I knew during those four years while he was having the affair with her that there was something wrong with our marriage. He continually found fault with me, never had sex with me and just didn't work on the marriage at all. So I am sure she did a similar thing and that she totally neglected her own marriage which already had problesm.

Another thing I said to him was that he must had known that they had problems in their marriage. . you don't have an A with someone for four years and not know that they have problems in their marriage and I said they he was partly responsible for their divorce, just as she was partly responsible . . .now two young children are without their father because my WH and the OW were selfish enough to have an affair.

He kept denying that he had anything to do with their break up. I believe that in part he has some responsibilty for their break up.

So he is still in denial and may stay that way. What does that mean for your personal recovery?

L.