After disappearing since Saturday night, WH has called on my cell to say he's going to attend our son's football banquet tonight. That's good because I know our son probably wants him there.

Then he call again about 5 minutes later, to ask if he can still come to my IC appt tomorrow. Before he left on Saturday, I had offered to make my appt into a joint one since he didn't find time to schedule MC. Had his "normal" voice on. I was a bit suspicious at first. The more I think about it, the more I get a chill of doom.

I wonder what is going on. When I got home, it was clear that he'd been home for stuff. He's taken a supply of socks, underwear and shirts from his closet. He's also taken his big digital camera which is probably the one thing he loves best in the world.

Oh great MB gurus, I have a great fear that he has mixed motives for MC. His parents know now and have been trying to call him. WH has not returned their calls but he must know that he's been exposed. Perhaps that's a motive for going to MC. However, part of me thinks that he's making the appt to have a safe place to tell me it's all over for him. There didn't seem to be much angst and vacillating in his voice. I don't think he wants to discuss the issues. I think he has other motives.

MB buddies, you all often seem to know what's going to happen BEFORE it happens. These things seem to follow a certain pattern. Any ideas where this is going or suggestions to handle it?

Thanks. Don't know what I'd do without you!

<small>[ December 13, 2004, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: HurtingCarol ]</small>

Carol:

First off, I am sorry for your pain <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . At this point does it really matter what he says?????? His actions speak louder than anything. Please have some self respect and preserve your dignity here. I know you are looking for any kernel of hope (that is ok). He has and continues to see the OW. The previous advice you were given with regards to giving him a "nice x-mas" was right on but you chose another course of action...Once again, that is ok, but I can tell you that the outcome you got is NOT any suprise. I think your WH will do whatever he has to do to "smooth" things over to appease his image with his parents, but you should be prepared that he will continue this affair BEHIND YOU BACK IF HE HAS TO. At this point, you have seen what his character is AT THIS MOMENT. Yeah, you can choose to believe that this "isn't really him" or this is an "alien"...or whatever else you need to do to rationalize his actions, but the fact is he is still cheating and betraying your honor and dignity. I don't have advice (well, I do, just not something that you are going to want to hear <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) so being that this is a marriage building site I would just dig in, read the Plan A books and give your heart over to this. I guess, he just needs more of his EN's as well as more admiration from you so that he will be able to stop this affair and come back to you. Good grief woman <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . I wish you the best of luck, I know all of this flat out just sucks...There is no way to sugar coat this.

LM

Carol...my WH did this too. I was incredibly anxious about the outcome. I came out and asked him why he wanted to attend? I told him..if you are coming to make things easier on yourself I would rather you not, but if you are coming to listen to where I am in the process..OK. I told him that I did not expect him to participate.
It ended up OK but I did vent a little too much and he hasn't come since.

How does he know about your son's football games? I no longer give my WH info regarding my childrens functions. If he wants to be involved he needs to take the initiative. And why is he calling to tell you he is coming. Tell him to convey that to his son, not you.

If he is avoiding his parents it is probably because he is ashamed. My WH told no one about the OW...just that he was moving out. I think if his mother were still alive he would have never had an EA because he would have been so ashamed to have to admit it. Let him work it out between himself and his folks. he will just blame you for causing more problems.

Hang in there.

WH's mom is wondering if he has some kind of chemical inbalance and needs a physical. I say "uhuh" but don't encourage this line of thinking. I am crystal clear that he is what he wants to be at this moment. He has choosen to be a liar and a cheater. No illusions. I believe he will continue to see OW. I believe he's looking for a safe place to tell me off.

I reminded him about the banquet before I realized what I really felt like doing was to slip into Plan B. I am also the assistant team mom and responsible for part of it. The invitation was on the fridge. Also, it's an old habit to remind him about kid functions.

It would take a great deal to convince me that he has any honesty and sincerity. It may be a way of getting through the holidays. We're having Christmas anyway. My in laws will be here. The kids will be here. He can come if he wants. If he can stomach it.

I don't plan to vent much tomorrow. I usually can keep it under control. I guess we all want some shred of hope but I'm not going to grovel to get it. I am trying to be true to myself. The ups and downs are killing me. I don't think he's coming MC to really work but we shall see. I, at least, will be there with my whole heart.

Carol,
Going to joint MC while your husband is still seeing his girlfriend is an utter waste of time and money. It's like taking a drug addict to rehab and then letting him go home and shoot up. What's the point? The counselors are not going to be able to change his mind. They're not going to be able to talk him out of it. He won't even hear them. (Been there, done that.)

Going to IC yourself, however, is probably a good idea. They might be able to help you get grounded so that you can put yourself and your children first instead of letting your husband and his girlfriend control your lives.
Mulan

Carol you are being very kind & generous to your husband at this point - it's these little things that will stick in his mind.

I would say to you go to mc with an open mind tomorrow, be prepared for the worst - in being honest with your feelings without bursting his balls - though I know he deserves a good kick <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

His actions re removing overnight gear is a very clear, unmistakeable message. - He has lost his marbles. Is mega confused & wants to feel loved, safe, etc., etc.,

We attended MC while unbeknownest to me the bad madness was deep. My husbands opening statement floored me he asked the counsellor to tell us whether our marriage was worth keeping? He wanted her to do a test, or ask us questions, to figure out if we were compatible? Anyhoos the he really was looking for a professional to confirm what he thought at the time was true for him.

I broke my calm composure & just blurted out "He loves someone else", husband was shocked. He started "I never said that....." finally "if that's what you want to believe, may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb".

Older & a tiny bit wiser now, I think I would sit back & listen to his opinions, (they maybe blaming you, fault finding, nit picking - don't rise to them) remain calm & use this time wisely, to possibly get accross the values you have that he really values, without attacking him or the puke spit vomit ow - she never gets mentioned by you, this counselling session is about restoring your marriage - or rather cutting little slivers of hope back into your hubbys numbed skull.

I wish I could think more clearly on this one.

Perhaps calling in advance & asking counsellors best advice on how to handle the actual session, what outcome you hope to achieve.

That as you leave your husband is struck by how amazing you are, and how thick in sh1t he is for making a stupid mistake, & that there is a willingness on your part to help him restore his dignity & integrity, that you still have love within you for him, when he is in a place he can openly receive it.

Just my thoughts
Good luck tomorrow.
Remember to be nice...you might end up going for coffee after, why not invite in a btw fashion.

Someone else is going to bust his balls for being with you in the 1st place, never mind Marriage Counselling... relax hon, what happens, will become history eventually, you will live & be happy, even love wholeheartedly again.

Think of goals.

Lemonman, I am interested in your advice. Don't sugarcoat it and tell me. I want to see all sides.

WH actually did make it to the dinner tonight. Sat by me but we didn't talk. Came home to sleep but I didn't talk. I am not reminding him about the appt tomorrow. If he comes, he comes.

I have warned my counselor that he is coming. I felt she needed to know in advance.

I have a bad feeling about all of this. I don't know where this is going but I rather face it than be in limbo.

Hopefully he will show up. I have seen counseling work even while WS was still seeing the OP. So don't give up.

We had a big discussion late last night into early morning. I'm afraid little things like being gone for a couple days and coming home for the night like nothing has happened kind of pizz me off. Can't take it anymore! Things like having a key to her house. Like him dumping a load of his clothes in his trunk. No suitcase or anything. Like having a real estate magazine in his car. He's a stonewaller and a cake eater. I guess I'm an impatient person. I keep asking questions in a persistent but hopefully not LB-ing way. Simple things like where do you see yourself for Christmas...

I thought this might have been bad last night. However, this morning before he left for work and again on the phone, he said he'd see me this afternoon. More pins and needles...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HurtingCarol:
<strong> We had a big discussion late last night into early morning. I'm afraid little things like being gone for a couple days and coming home for the night like nothing has happened kind of pizz me off. Can't take it anymore! Things like having a key to her house. Like him dumping a load of his clothes in his trunk. No suitcase or anything. Like having a real estate magazine in his car. He's a stonewaller and a cake eater. I guess I'm an impatient person. I keep asking questions in a persistent but hopefully not LB-ing way. Simple things like where do you see yourself for Christmas...

I thought this might have been bad last night. However, this morning before he left for work and again on the phone, he said he'd see me this afternoon. More pins and needles... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YOu will always have the pins and needles feeling because he is calling all the shots. IN his mind, you are a "sure thing"...he can $hit all over you and not call you all weekend while he screws another woman and then he can plop right back into his "home" life like nothing happened..............AND GUESS WHAT???? He's right. Yes, I know that you exposed to his parents, but that looks like it will not be enough to end this affair. Hurting, I would love to give you some advice here, but I don't want to get a 10 page diatribe by "Just Learning" or another reprimand for not giviing you Marriage Builders approved advice. The pissing contests that my advice usually brings on from many posters here is not what you need now. Your WH has LOST ALL respect for you. Your "threats" don't mean anyhing to him. The majority of folks here are gonna tell you to regroup for more Plan A, as I don't think you have elased the suggested minimum amount of time (3 monhs). After all a good Plan B is no good without a good Plan A. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Your WH needs more admiration, SF, and praise from you, so he will come back to you. If you buy this theory than you need to really "pour" it on so that all his life's EN's can be met by you and not the OW. I know that you want this marriage back at "seemingly" all costs, but there will come a time (maybe soon), were you may lose yourself in the process. God, I am rooting for you to do the "right" thing here. Good luck.

LM

<small>[ December 14, 2004, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: lemonman ]</small>

Lemonman, are you like the Devil's advocate here? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I've been seriously thinking about your post. Different view points are good.

I'm struggling with being true to myself. I was a doormat for a long time. I saw what that did to my mom and I'm not going there. I'm not exactly sure what Plan A is anyway. My concentration levels aren't very good right now. WH won't commit to NC and won't even fill out a EN questionaire. I truly have no idea exactly how to fulfil or even what are his EN. He certainly isn't concerned about mine. I keep telling him I don't do mindreading. I can only do what I do: make nice meals, keep the house a bit cleaner, prepare for the holidays, be involved with the stuff I do and show my kids a lot of love. Do I give up my Girl Scouts or stop working in the classroom or not go to the kids' sporting events just to dote on him? Do I have to give him a sweet "good night" when I want to smack him? I'm not very good at "yes, dear"'s.

Do I want this marriage at all costs? A very good question. At my counselor's urging, I've written down the things I want from a marriage. Once I quantified it, I had a place to go from. Respect, trust, openness, companionship, co-parenting, information sharing, more family time and less work time for him, love, sexual satisfaction...+++. I know my list but does he know his? What would I be willing to compromise on? I think this is why I've wanted MC so badly. I want to try and break down the stone wall. I want a C to moderate the discussion and pin us both down.

I think exposure might be working a little. He won't talk about his parents. Could be sticker shock, too. Could be realizing just how much this is going to cost him. After 28 years of marriage and SAHM-ing, it's going to be more than 50-50 of everything plus maintenance and child support. We've built up a lot of assets and little debt in our marriage. I think he's also seeing that given his track record and work hours there's little chance he'll get much custody. When asked, he said he came home last night because he didn't want to go to OW's. Won't answer when asked if he likes her kids. Perhaps the reality of a family scurrying off to work and school on a Monday morning isn't as pleasant as a lost weekend. Or perhaps it's the commute.

I have thoughts of my own Plan D. I can go back to school. I would like to have a job that allows me to be with my kids. I really don't want to have a middle school kid who comes home to an empty house for hours. If it's D, I don't want a house as big as we have now but I'd want to stay in the same school district. I've thought about how would I handle it if he decides we can recover our marriage but I don't.

Still, it's early days. It's barely 6 weeks since Dday. The Holidays put a weird spin on things too.

How does this sound, Lemonman or anyone else?

Hurting:

Well, I can feel your pain and sorrow through your post. It sucks, I know. The good thing is that you have the UNDENIABLE fact that 99% of all affairs end. There lifeline is made in deceit and they will ALL usually end one way or the other. I am starting to believe that few marriages can not survive an affair. Look at all of the horror that folks on here suffer in the name of their marriage....and you know what...many of them are still married. I have changed my view on that somewhat. I still very much contend that alot of the "supposed" recovery is just that...."supposed", but at least the folks are still married. If you can "wait" out your husband a good while longer, his affair will end and he will give you another chance to win his love and commitmment back. Read the SAA book, the prime case example in that book bears that out. I don't know if your marriage will survive....I would be willing to bet that you can DEFINTELY do your part to see that it survives. Many BS here have an unbelievable ability to tolerate near anything to "remain married", so I think you can do it also. Hopefully, the "alien" concept that is so rampant around here bears out and your WH will "snap" out of it and the alien wil leave and you can get your WH back. You will have an easier time forgiving him also, because after all, it was "not really him" that did this to you and your children....it was all a "fog induced alien". Even better, think of it as your husband having cancer....you are not gonna bail out on him when he is in the throes of chemotherapy are you? These are all nice "tricks" and tips the MB community here can give you to get through this painful time in your life. I once again, can't give you marriage builder approved advice, but can support you nonetheless in your efforts to win your husbands love and commitmment back. Everyone needs support.

LM

I don't want to get off track here but Lemonman I want you to know that I have nothing but respect for you and your 'advice'. MB isn't a cookbook with a pat recipe that you can follow...which is why people fail sometimes. It is an outline for you to look at and see what and if any of it will work in your situation and in what order. I think that people are sometimes in such a panic that they don't stop to look/listen/assess their particular situation so what they chose to do simply does not work.

These are not hard and fast rules...that is why, as I have said over and over, you have to know your spouse and your situation to know what to do. Stepping back and taking a breath, removing yourself from the whirlwind, setting up a support community, preparing for the 'what if's'...these are all things that need be done maybe before applying any of the MB principles. And then, it is okay to modify them to address your issues.

Anyway...not to highjack this post...my H did go to MC with me a few times. He said that he went to see if it was possible for me to change!!?? While I thought he was not listening...as it turned out, he was, as later in conversations he would tell me things that I could see were a direct result of him having been at the sessions where I did all the talking. So you never know what good can come from it.