TA, he may be a good looking guy, that was not my point.

Shallow shallow shallow......You are saying IMHO that all that matters is what the outside of a person looks like. Trash is what that is.

It would not matter at all what I think of my WW's OM or of anybody on this site. If all you see is the outside of a person, you're relationship is dead from the start.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and surface looks do not make the person. I could sit here and describe my WW to you, as she is a drop dead beauty to me.. That is to me, you or millions of others may not think so. I love her for who she is, not just how she looks...

P.S. Look in the paper today, saw a fat guy and a thin girl, I guess he must have money.

Does anyone ever read my posts? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Please read and comprehend people.

Read SLOOOOOOOOOOOWLY. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Show me where I said Looks are the only thing that counts. There are plenty of women better looking than my wife, do I chase them? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

TA,

I can't believe that I'm even more shocked than before. With every post you make, I'm more and more amazed. You're brazen and I think you're being very honest. It's just overwhelmingly sad to me.

To answer your question about the OM or OW being "more beautiful" than the BS, I wanted to tell you that I know a few WS' here that have chosen to be with an OM or OW who were NOT as good looking as their spouses! Ask Stanley. Ask my H. My OW (yup, it was a lesbian A--shock to me!!) was nearly 300 pounds. No one truly believed that she and I were having an A because of how she looked and because she was a woman (and because I was married-duh!). How shallow. I fell in love with her for much more than just looks, although I was very attracted to her. So, looks are definitely in the eye of the beholder. It's horrible to pidgeonhold someone according to looks. It's really limiting and offensive. (BTW, I'm "attractive" by most standards, if that helps your arguement).

You make it sound like your relationship with your W was/is much more than looks, and I truly hope that's for real. It's insecure and ridiculous to even discuss parading your wife around for other people's approval. Not necessary. If she believes she's worthy and you do too, that's all that matters. Looks aren't everything. It's what's in your heart that truly matters. Look deeper.

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by alank:
<strong> P.S. Look in the paper today, saw a fat guy and a thin girl, I guess he must have money. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">95% of the people match, end of story. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hold up, TA. If I disagree with you, that means I'm not honest?

TA, I haven't read all of your posts, so excuse my ignorance here. But why DID your wife have an affair? You look great, you're loaded with money, and you're always right.

What's not to love?
PM

Dang TA! Put down the shovel and step away from the hole, man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

You mentioned ugly guys with hot wives, what about ugly chicks with hot hubbies?

Luvbird, ugly chick with a hot sexy H! (Maybe I'm just really good in bed???) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Buttercup:CC:
<strong> TA,

To answer your question about the OM or OW being "more beautiful" than the BS, I wanted to tell you that I know a few WS' here that have chosen to be with an OM or OW who were NOT as good looking as their spouses! CC </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I must be very bad at getting my message across. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Of course people have affairs where the other person is not as attractive as their spouse. My wife told me OM is not half as attractive as me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I'm just stating that most people here never admit that the OP is better looking. They always say they weren't ugly, just average, etc...

My wife/husband is much better looking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

There are other attractive people than us BS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

papermom, great point.

I think I may win the lotto and drop some weight. My WW should come running back

TA,

Yup, I think you're a poor communicator! Either that, or I misinterpreted your post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I thought that you meant that most OM or OW were better looking than the BS' out there. Sorry.

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by papermom:
<strong> Hold up, TA. If I disagree with you, that means I'm not honest?

TA, I haven't read all of your posts, so excuse my ignorance here. But why DID your wife have an affair? You look great, you're loaded with money, and you're always right.

What's not to love?
PM </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was not meeting her EN, end of story.

My wife is NON-confrontational and let things build up for years. She is just as guilty for not creating a nuturing marriage according to Dr Harley.

My wife was not meeting all my EN either. I think the sex and money kept us together longer than we should have.

I'm still willing to work hard on this marriage but she has to change also. She is at least 1/3 responisble for the problems in our marriage.

I've changed a lot since D-Day (she has admitted it) but she has not taken any responsiblilty for her affair at all. She said she is practically perfect and I made her do it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

She is also so damn stubborn. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by alank:
<strong> papermom, great point.

I think I may win the lotto and drop some weight. My WW should come running back </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll bet that most WS would come back if we won the Lotto. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

At least until the divorce is final. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

OK....I'm confused...

TA said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> First of all she is prettier than about 99% of all women, period. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are plenty of women better looking than my wife, do I chase them? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please explain....


hcii

TA - Your posts never seem to amaze me. I've never posted to you. Frankly, b/c I've read all the drama involved in your posts & I steered away from it, but this thread just caught my eye for some reason.

TA, the thing I think you're missing here is the fact that you come across as conceited. There is such a thing as having self-confidence & then also being so self-confident that it comes across as stuck on yourself. You're in the latter, I'm afraid.

I can see what you mean about wanting to show your W off to others; however, this kind of talk makes it "seem" as if you only see your W as some sex object. It's wonderful that you think that she's so attractive on the outside. The thing about beauty though, is it fades. So if you're not beautiful on the inside, you'll end up shriveling up like an old prune.

I see your point about looks; however, I think this is a problem w/society in general. Society in general is so hung up on someone's looks it's sickening & if we as human beings feed into this crap, we're no better than the social elite. And for the record, I can name quite a few celebrities that are overweight -- Aretha Franklin, Patty Labelle, our new American Idol Reuben Studdard, the girl that played on that one law show, forget her name, she has long, straight brown hair, anyway, that's just to name a few.

I also take notice that you said you've changed a lot, how have you done that? It would be interesting to hear that.

Love in Christ,
Y

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hcii:
<strong> OK....I'm confused...

TA said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> First of all she is prettier than about 99% of all women, period. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are plenty of women better looking than my wife, do I chase them? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please explain....


hcii </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even 1% of all women is still a lot of women. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StandingTogether:
<strong> TA - Your posts never seem to amaze me. I've never posted to you. Frankly, b/c I've read all the drama involved in your posts & I steered away from it, but this thread just caught my eye for some reason.

TA, the thing I think you're missing here is the fact that you come across as conceited. There is such a thing as having self-confidence & then also being so self-confident that it comes across as stuck on yourself. You're in the latter, I'm afraid.

I can see what you mean about wanting to show your W off to others; however, this kind of talk makes it "seem" as if you only see your W as some sex object. It's wonderful that you think that she's so attractive on the outside. The thing about beauty though, is it fades. So if you're not beautiful on the inside, you'll end up shriveling up like an old prune.

I see your point about looks; however, I think this is a problem w/society in general. Society in general is so hung up on someone's looks it's sickening & if we as human beings feed into this crap, we're no better than the social elite. And for the record, I can name quite a few celebrities that are overweight -- Aretha Franklin, Patty Labelle, our new American Idol Reuben Studdard, the girl that played on that one law show, forget her name, she has long, straight brown hair, anyway, that's just to name a few.

I also take notice that you said you've changed a lot, how have you done that? It would be interesting to hear that.

Love in Christ,
Y </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There has been NO drama in my post for several weeks.

Maybe I am conceited, I never said I was perfect. We all have flaws, alcohol, drugs, cheaters, addictions, whatever.

Read several of my previous post where I said my wife was even more beautiful on the inside.

I know beauty fades, I can get a hot chick anytime I want, period. If I wanted a hotter woman than my wife then I could have my pick of many, sorry to be so frank. My wife may one day look like my Mother in-law. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I still want her in my life.

TA, just to clarify for those new to you, I would like to point out that the "affair" you keep refering to amounts to nothing more than your wife telling you she had a crush on an completely unaware man. She apparently told you this in the hope that it would end the marriage. Unless I missed something, you STILL have made no effort to confirm or deny anything further and it's three months down the road.

Until you have some concrete proof that your wife is in an affair whether EA or PA, you are misleading people into thinking that you are a BS like them. I can see how it would seem to be a more acceptable option for you that she has wandered (makes HER the bad guy) as opposed to just being plain tired of you and your ways but bottom line: You have NO information or evidence that she has wandered PERIOD, nor have you sought any.

MB terminology is specific and until you confirm otherwise, you and your wife don't fit the BS/WS labels, sorry. MB concepts are wonderful preventatives for affairs and restorative for ailing marriages whether they have been touched by affairs or not. Identifiying yourself as a victim of an affair is not in alignment with the facts you have previously posted TA, but if you are a married man, your marriage can benefit from application of the concepts.

You say you have made changes yet your posts have remained the same. Dwelling on the physical side of life whether it be material possessions or your wife's appearance, has obviously gotten you nowhere either in a marriage or on this board.

You haven't fulfilled your wife's ENs, okaaay. Question is what are you going to do about it? Don't tell me you don't know what they are because she won't tell you, if you've really been married 28 years, I would hope you'd have a slight clue. Look at the list, look at the ones you KNOW you've contributed the LEAST to and start there.

You say you want her in your life, you are going to have to make some big internal changes. You will have to admit to faults and flaws so that you can change them. Women HATE it when men try to convince everyone around them that they're better than they really are. Wives hate that in particular because they know the TRUTH. What am I saying??? NO ONE likes that, man or woman. It's a personality thing TA and something you seriously need to consider working on. Conciet and self absorption are ugly things to nurture and certainly tiring to live with for a spouse.

KB, bravo, applause, applause!

Jen

Unfortunately, I've followed your posts since the beginning, over In Recovery. I'm trying to put my finger on where exactly you are coming from. Your first few weeks, many thought you were a troll--I'm still undecided. that's not what's really important, but in a way, it is. I'll get back to that in a minute.

So, you toned down your "behaviour", language and rather obscure, and at times, insulting threads/posts. You now have several MB'ers routing for you, although, a rather strange and very conflicting story of your wife's EA/PA/crush. We all can (and I certainly have) learned a heck of alot from your posts. But, one thing I'm not understanding is, why did you post this thread in IR and GQII? It was a very legitimate question, IMHO. Then, WHAM--you (not anybody interpreting it--YOU) turn it once again into insulting the intelligence of many (just going by their reponses) here with your very superficial, womanizing comments. YOU. Not anybody's interpretation--YOU. Just like you did so many times over in IR. Then sorta coaxed everyone back.

I am refraining from placing any judgement and personal attacks, here. This is not the forum for this, but would certainly like to respond to your absurd, left-field posts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you read my caption that picture was taken 10 minutes before D-Day.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just an observation...a Socratic observation...Why do you have an answer for everything? Someone mentions their take on that pic (which I did not see), and mentions your wife's eyes, and immmediately, you have an answer:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ten minutes later she told me the marriage was over. As I said before, her eyes looked very sad and she looked terrible. Looked like she had aged 10 years.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I posted that pic because it was the worst she ever looked.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why? Why would you want to post the worst pic, after telling everyone how "hot" she looked and what a "babe" and had a hot chic bod? Why would you post the "worst" pic?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Today all that sadness in her eyes has disappeared.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Today" as in December 27th, 2004? Or figuratively, "in her state of mind these days?" I doubt I will ever respond to anoother one of your posts--for some reason, I was "consumed" in this one, so I'll answer it both ways.
If you mean today, 12/27/04, you are one of the most shallowest people I have ever encoountered. And to think--this is only cyberly!
If you mean in her current state of mind, why are you here? For me--I will NOT speak for anyone else here--but for me, it's a legitimate question as you have just described that there is no problem. Either you are in denial, a troll, or seriously ill. I truly mean that with great compassion and there's no one here that can help you--it would require professional help. Yes, these are my opinons--not attacks. If I were to attack you per se, you would know it. It's all in the tone. My next point: your tone.

It was asked in IR, and I'm paraphrasing: What kind of 50 year old, 6 figure income, top executive uses words such as: "hot", "babe", "chic", "smoking", [profanity,] [profanity,] [profanity,] etc, etc, etc--in a serious manner? And your name...even after SH asked you about it, you continue to use it. Hmmm...Again, just an observation. Fatual observation.

And you are nonchalant about describing her as </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">some Dumb Trophy Wife.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You didn't have to type it--your continued descriptions of her "said it all."

Now, I do agree with you to an extent: what woman doesn't like that attention--once in a while? It is hard to justify a rebuttal. HOWEVER, you don't describe this as a "once in a while" type of ocassion. This is daily. IMHO, there is some huge security issues here. On both your parts. (But, then again, we are only hearing from you.) And you continually justify your actions and mannerisms.

Contradictions after contradictions. Your words--no opinions here. (And I'm using just this thread's examples):
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was initially attracted to my wife because of her looks, 5 minutes later I fell in love with her because of her personality. She is even more beautiful inside than outside. I realize one day she may look like her Mother. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

And to all the people who think they know me, I don't love my wife because she looks great or has a great body. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But, that'll be the day when she starts looking like your MIL, huh?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I simply made the point that she looks great when we go out and I like to show her off. I don't intentionally take her out "just to show her off." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not going to apologize because my wife is beatiful and I like to show her off.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These are your words. Didn't change a thing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In additon, in HSHN Dr. Harley clearly stated that men want an attractive wife and sexual fulfillment.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well,...DUH! I really never understood the mentality of "showing off your significant other." It has been said several times in this thread: you may think your wife is a goddess, the most beautiful creature that ever set foot on this earth--AND YOU SHOULD! However, don't "strut" over my way and "show your wife off" to me--the personality and beauty go hand in hand--perception. (Boy, if it's one lessonn I've learned in the year 2004, it's perception.) IMHO? I really don't give a s@it if your wife is a goddess, the most beautiful creature that ever set foot on this earth--she won't be to all, and quite frankly, I don't want it in my face--it's ugly--regardless how she "looks." It's ugly when ego outweighs humility. But, I suppose that's only my opinion--obviously, not yours.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does Michael Douglass not show off Catherine Zeta Jones...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't know.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...does Brad Pitt not show off Jennifer Anniston...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, actually, NO! They try to be extremely private "people", but unfortunately live in the spotlight as two of the biggest stars on this earth.
What point are you trying to make anyway, here? They are Hollywood stars, fortunately or unfortunately, always in the spotlight. It comes with the territory. It's fantasy land.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do women spend so much $$$ on Plastic Surgery? My wife has never had anything done and never will. Why do people spend so much money on fancy clothes, jewelry, sportscars, etc... if not to look good.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Get back to the point--it wasn't about looking good. YOUR point--once again, your words, just using my Webster's thesarus--was flaunting.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First impressions mean a lot.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe it's an unfair question as admittedly I am taking it out of context, but...Why the hell would you want your wife to make a "first impression" at a restaurant in front of men she's never met? Very confused over this comment.

Oh, and the conceit is so thick--thought it might be some fog rolling in:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Beautiful people make more $$$, get job promotions easier, and get more in life much easier. I should know, I'm one of them.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"I should know, I'm one of them." Wow. That's all I can manage right now: Wow.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Isn't their personality enough.

Anyone here who says otherwise if full of ****.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Methinks, you are bursting at the seams! You are all over the place, contradicting yourself, then make a comment like that! If your wife's personality was "just enough", then why the hell do you continue to flaunt her looks?!?!?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't tell you how many men I know quit having sex with their wife because they have gotten fat and let themselves go.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, please, do tell. Do tell us. Would absolutely love to hear the statistics on this one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Many men have PA because they want to be with an attractive woman.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This shows your ignorance to the nature of affairs. I am certainly not a "know-all" regarding affairs--I am learning and recovering myself with my wife. But, you have insulted me to the extreme with a comment like this. IMHO, if anbody has an affair to be with a more attractive person, whether it be a man or woman, that person is beyond fog. That person has no morals, no respect for human emotions/life, complete superficial person. It's bad enough the affair itself is ugly and painful and completely wrong and the person becomes suffocated by the fog. But to have an affair for that reason? To include a comment like that is disgusting. You really don't know a damn thing about the nature of affairs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is it that not one person on this site, male or female ever admit that the OW/OM was more beautiful/handsome than their spouse?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Luck of the draw, I suppose.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everyone always says it was the emotional aspect.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ask your wife. (Rolling my eyes.)


And with all of this, somehow, I hope someway, I hope I have helped you. In some way.

LINY

<small>[ December 28, 2004, 02:26 AM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

Well I think that we are not all cut from the same cloth and TA's viewpoint is different and quite interesting. Before Dday, I would have found it all sooo shallow but MB has educated me and YES, like it or not, looks play a huge part in our relationships. It is plain to me that TA adores his wife. He is on the same emotional rollercoaster that everyone else is on. His moods are constantly changing and that is evident in his posts. I know from my experience, I can start the day feeling one way and 30 minutes later it's all changed.

TA, I never saw your wife's picture but you seem so proud of her. Just calm down, stop bragging, we don't need to keep hearing about your money, your cars, your great looks. We are all in this together. You don't piss me off - I'm tolerance itself - but I can tell that you really seem to aggravate a lot of posters here. Maybe that's exactly what you do to your wife. Ask her if there is anything you can try to do that would make her feel better. If you blow your own trumpet all the time at home, she just might be worn out from listening.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is it that when you see an Ugly guy with a beautiful wife people always say "what the hell has he got?" He either has a Big **** or a Big Wallet. I've never once heard anyone say "he must have a nice personality." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TA - "Attractive Spouse" Emotional Need aside, you don't seem to understand, or accept, that Emotional Needs are different for other people than YOUR particular ranking of you EN's.

Sorry to burst your bubble but for almost ALL women, and for a lot of men, the EMOTIONAL side of an affair outweighs the physical side by a thousand miles.

TA, I hear precious little about a faith in Jesus Christ in any of your postings, so I not at all surprised to hear what I do hear in your postings.

TA, you present yourself, through your postings, as extremely materialisitic and that "things" are most important to you. You seem to equate "things," money, job, beatiful arm candy (Can anyone say...Hugh Hefner), financial provision for your wife AS the "soul" of you who are. TA, there may come a day when you realize that all of those things are not sustaining of a healthy relationship. Sure, they may be important as a "piece" of "who you are," but they are shallow and unfulling to anything other than a "surface" relationship, a "what I can get out of it" sort of relationship.

The "difference," if you will, is the difference between the biblical ideal of "knowing" your spouse versus "to lie with." If you don't understand that difference.....that is the source of much unhappiness and marital difficulty.

Personality differences also enter the picture, and you don't "listen." You have your mind made up that "your way" is the only way and "to heck with everyone else." Yours tends to be a "High D" personality and many folks, particuarly those of other personality types, find the "D" persoanility to be rude, loud, and self-absorbed. Now while that might work "in the pit," it is NOT how people relate to people on a personal level.

Until you are willing to look Christ square in the eye and tell him that YOU didn't need any saving, you are dodging the question of personal responsibility and a willingness to make positive changes in YOUR personal STANDARDS and BOUNDARIES.

IF you truly believe that you are "above" the need for God's forgiveness, then there is little that I or anyone on the system need contribute further.

IF you don't believe you are "better than God," then, are you willing to listen to what HE has to say to you and to OBEY Him regardless of what you "think or feel" because HE is sovereign, not you?

For me, I'll await your answer to determine whether or not to invest any more time that could be spent helping someone else in need(there are plenty of them in case you hadn't noticed).