Mimi: Slimeball OW got access to WH on an extended business trip to Singapore. They flew out with some other people together and worked on the same project. Yeh, they work hard over there but every night people go out to dinner, drinking and other activities. Basically, it was a paid honemoon. No kids, no chores, no bills, a spotless hotel room and thou. He was emotionally absent from us all summer. WH says the biggest thing he and OW have together is that they can talk about work. Sounds exciting doesn't it!

I'm pretty such WH doesn't have a clue about his EN. Much of his persona and ego is tied up in his work. Sadly, he doesn't have much besides his work. I think OW might just be part the work thing because she understands it. I think she must be very needy too.

<small>[ January 03, 2005, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: HurtingCarol ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Not to sure if HC's WH is getting his needs met by the OW, unless his needs are butterflies, dancing flowers, and no responsibilities, no obligations. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WAITING:

This is an EN. Could be RECREATION, could be CONVERSATION, could be AFFECTION.... HE IS GETTING HIS EMOTIONAL NEEDS MET BY THE OW OR ELSE HE WOULDN'T BE WITH HER!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ask most WS what it is about the OP and they won't know </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They won't know if they are not willing to look inside themselves and try to be open and honest. They will say they don't know while they are still in the fog. My FWH is now willing and able to tell me what she provided. I know what it was because I had stopped attending to him, being affectionate with him... I had distanced myself from him. I was not meeting his ENs. He was also not meeting mine. We had grown apart. That is tragic! People in long-term marriages that make it, don't do this.

There may be a difference between your situations and mine. Before his A time frame, my H and I were very much "in love" and were very intimate. He tried to replace the OW with me while I was neglecting him. She couldn't be me. He learned that during PLAN B. Steve Harley told me "If he loved you before, he can love you again..." My FWH was really very much in love with me for many years and I took him for granted..

<small>[ January 03, 2005, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Carole:

What is the age of the OW?

Thank you Star*fish, I try to stay rational. Since everytime I meet WH, he's a different man with a different story, it's hard to know much. What did I fulfill? When did I stop? When did he decide to check-out of our relationship?

I just took a shower and this thought came to me. While WH was on his trip, 9 WEEKS!, it occurrs to me that I was actually doing Plan A during much of that time. In the beginning, we spoke on the phone often. Later, it dwindled down to maybe 5 minutes if I called. I knew something wasn't right. He said he was tired and depressed. I thought it was long hours and lots of pressure. I went into something like a Plan A. I took the initiative to call him. I tried to never complain about anything on the phone no matter how hard it was having him away. I always had an amusing story to tell him on the phone. Tried to give him the positive things in our lives and tried to keep him connected to it. At our son's football games, I'd call him to give him updates every quarter. I got the team photographer to email him pictures of our son playing. When it became apparent he wouldn't be home for DD birthday, I encouraged him to buy her a present and overnight it home. When the beautiful Chinese dress I suggested arrived, I took pictures of DD in it and emailed it. I took a picture of her with her school classmates and sent it so he could feel a part of her life. I sent loving emails. I told him how much I loved him and missed him on the phone. When he moaned about working too hard, I encouraged him to turn off his work cellphone and gave him "missions" for things to shop for. Remember, WH was in one of the best cities in the world for shopping. While he was gone, I lost 15 pounds. I vowed to have the house and car [censored] and span when he came back.

What happened? He snuck into the country early and spent the weekend at OW's house. He walked into the house unannounced several days early. The house was in a state of getting organized. Okay, a mess. The car wasn't detailed. I didn't have a nice outfit and makeup on and a wonderful dinner on the stove. Since then, he's never noticed that I've lost weight. No matter how much I clean the house, he still complains but never helps out. The shopping assignments I gave him, he views as greed on my part. Doesn't see them as a way to keep his family on his mind and a way to get him out of the hotel. He doesn't talk about his kids about the things they're doing. He doesn't connect with them. Everytime he said I love you, he was loving someone else.

So, does all that count as Plan A time?

The phone stuff while he was gone sounds like GREAT PLAN A stuff.

How much opportunity did you have to do PLAN A while he was home, though?

If this is partly midlife crisis like it was for my FWH, he really resented the focus on the children. He wanted the romance back in our marriage. That's what the OW offered. During the MLC, they become more touchy/feely again. My FWH wanted it back the way it was when we first started dating.

Remember much of his complaining has to do with the fog. They have to make you into a bad guy in order to justify the A to themselves.

<small>[ January 03, 2005, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi, I didn't have a lot of opportunity to continue Plan A-ing after he got home. I worked on it even after I discovered the A. I cleaned really hard, made favorite meals, was well-groomed, bright and happy. It didn't matter because NOTHING anybody in the family did then made a difference. I couldn't do anything right. The kids were ignored.

OW is a couple of years younger than I am. "Not a spring chicken" in WH's words. She is divorced with 3 kids who are from 10-16. Apparently, she did the ever-popular drifting apart in her marriage and that's why there was a divorce. Of course, WH doesn't really want to know why OW got divorced. He says he loves her but there isn't anything physical. Says she won't have sex unless she's married. (Nobody really believes that. And that must mean he's tried.) Plutonic and sleeping on somebody's couch is better than loving wife, great kids and home? We have wonderful kids that we can be really proud of.

Perhaps she's as into her work as he is. Those kind of hours must be really difficult as a single mom with kids and a long commute. The word romance in connection to OW has never come up. The "we talk about work a lot" is a recurrent theme. It's a mystery. I think he wants an empty, antiseptically clean house with hot meals, clean laundry and nobody bothering him. Kind of like his hotel in the Far East. A place where WH can be as 2 dimensional and shallow as he wants.

Yes, I know just about everything is a lie. Very sad.

You need to listen to Mimi. You have no idea what plan you are in, which makes you not much better off than your WH. I mean that by the fact that you will vascillate all over the place without a plan.

Too many BSs try to do Plan A, and expect the WS to jump in their arms after one day. What does Harley say. Plan A is for how long? Typically 6 months! Not six days.

Even then, the effects of Plan A may not be felt and may not activate until there is a Plan B. In my case (as most cases), that is the way it is. But without a good Plan A, Plan B is almost worthless.

Plan A is not just meeting your husband's ENs. It is getting better yourself. It is figuring out why your marriage got to this point. It is bettering yourself as a spouse. It is getting your house in order. That way, when he comes back...you can concentrate on building a new, better marriage. And if he doesnt come back, then you are prepared for Plan B...and everythign is in order for the separation/no contact. And if he still doesnt come back, then yo uare ready for the divorce.

Dont you see? You have a lot of work ot do. Stop concentrating on how it affects him. Just do what you are supposed to, expect nothing in return...and move forward. Odds are, he will be there in the end. but even if he isnt, you will have earned your way out of the marriage...and will be ready to be a great catch for someone new.

It is the only way. Get busy!!

In His arms.

<small>[ January 05, 2005, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

And thats when I say, let him have it.
Maybe its finally time for us to realize that what we have to offer is not what makes them happy, and what we need to be happy, they can't offer. That is why Plan B is looking more appealing to me. Everytime I have contact with WH I become a slobbery, miserable depressed BS. When I have NC I get used to doing things without him and not needing him.

Carol what are your EN's? Has he ever been able to give that to you? Are you expectations to high? (I doubt it) Are they obtainable?

Waiting,

I understand. If you look back at my posts (starting in June 2002), I said many of the same things. But I am home with my wife now.

Read my posts. Look at the rollercoaster. Look at how many times I was ready to give up.

But I have my wife home now. My kids are happy. We are working on getting past all of this...and building a future again.

You can give up...no one will blame you. You do deserve better. But what is better? If your WS came home today, repentant and improved...would that be better? If they loved you like you want to be loved, would that be better? If you were a better spouse to them, would that be better?

Even though we BSs didnt have an affair, we still need to earn our marriages...or earn our way out. Our marriages are where they are partly due to us. We need to make the effort...or forever live with the consequences. I saw a study one time that said that 4 out of 5 divorced people wish they had made more effort in their first marriage to save it.

Dont be one of them. You will KNOW when it is over. Mine took almost three years to save. But now I have another 30 or 40 with my wife. I'd say it was worth it.

In His arms.

<small>[ January 03, 2005, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Glad to hear the news about your marriage, MM.

I've been patiently awaiting your update!

Carol....what happened at MC???