</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I feel like a "big-brother" to her </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Big brothers do not have sex with their little sisters and later get to claim they have their little sister's best interest at heart.

Sorry .... this one gets a BIG rasberry ****>>>>>> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pep

Yeah, I think my journey has just begun.

I've been blinded these past few years thinking everything was ok. My wife and I are so comfortable with each other and we get along great. We travel together all the time: weekend getaways, 2 to 3 week-long vacations per year. We don't even fight anymore (like we did when we were dating). We've become REALLY GOOD FRIENDS. But perhaps that's where the problem is...maybe she's becoming "just a friend" to me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ba109:
<strong> [QUOTE]Originally posted by SleeplessInSF:
SYMC's reclamation board is intended for those who are actively involved in, or have recently ended an A and are seeking to restore the M. This is not mindsinks situation. Mindsink desires sex with women (plural) other than his W. This desire takes him to places like the massage parlor that he visited where he just happened to become emotionally attached to a prostitute.

Your opinion regarding the 2x4 approach is respected as just that...your opinion, not FACT.

This is a question best answered by your coach. It is not a good practice for many reasons. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mindsinks post is called "Falling in love with a prostitute" and you don't see this as an affair? purely sex? and he couldn't benefit from the reclamation board because.......... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I know first hand about the 2x4 appraoch trust me. I will state again the reclamation board exists for a reason. A good one.

Yes I'm sure my "coach" would think me trying to help another person with whom I can identify would be a bad idea?????? Isn't that the exact reasons these boards exist? Why are YOU here? What does YOUR "coach" think of you posting here? I'm sorry but your reaching for straws here.

I'm not here to debate with you BA. I had something to offer Mindsink. I'm done arguing with you. Have a nice day.

I lied to her and said I wasn't married.

Nor do they have one's best interest at heart when they lie right to their face, telling them they are single and available, hoping to make them fall in love, when they are married!

Atleast she was honest with you when she said "lay down your money and get in line". How nice that now she gets to find out that the one stinking john to have proclaimed love for her (or maybe they all do, I don't know) was really lying to her face while stabbing her in the back.

Nice!

Don't even get me started on people who lie about being single in order to get someone to fall in love with them. I got a teeny, eeny problem with that.

I do wish you well, but you need to address some serious selfishness issues you have as well as the other marital issues.

*edited to add - I only read the very first post and this last page, don't know what went on in between, but felt compelled to address this one issue.

<small>[ January 10, 2005, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

Rather than editing....

Your marriage will be "kept" on lies....

Your wife has no say so in this?!?!? What is your definition of a marriage? (Did you say it was just a piece of paper?) Does it involve two people? And your choice is to keep your wife out of it? HUH? Yeah, it's what you choose...but your choices affect her. I really don't know what else to add. I'm at a loss for opinions/help/advice betond what I've already posted.

And when I said the journey has just begun, do you wnat it based on lies for the rest of your marriage?

Mindsink,

You know that little voice in your head that tells you that something is a really bad idea..that it will hurt like h*ll..that the risk isn't worth the gain..?

You ignored that voice to your detriment when you visited a [let's be honest] whorehouse.

By not heeding that warning you became an adulterer..and while it is not the whole of yourself..it is a defining quality until and unless you make amends.

Embracing nondisclosure takes you a step further. Strike adulterer and insert rapist.

Does that concept shock you? Do you have another, more comfortable term for forcing sex with a person not of her choosing on your wife?

What you intend..is frankly criminal.

Please reconsider..the stakes are higher in this decision than they were in the previous one. Last chance to do the honorable thing before cowardice and selfishness stain your life irrevocably.

Noodle

Hello Mindsink,

My H went to prostitutes (plural, not one particular girl). He justified it in his mind because he didn't want to bother me with this needs. He never told me he had a problem (in fact, he told me the opposite). A year later he started having sex with my best friend, again justifying it with it "being just sex".

When I found out - and oh yes, I did - I asked him if he had any respect for women at all. He was very shocked I should ask him that. But in my mind, a man who uses a woman for sex, paying her for it or doing it for "sport", has no respect for women. Perhaps the women he did it with used him too, that's possible.

My H didn't see himself as an uncaring, selfish person. In fact if any of the prostitutes he visited would have had some problem he would have tried to comfort her, like you did.

He did selfish, uncaring things. He justified it to himself with "she'll never find out" or "those girls like theirs jobs" etc.

Wake up, my dear. Your view of women needs some adjusting. If you think it's ok to lie and use people.. what have you become?

Your W is not your mother. She deserves the truth. You might keep some secrets for your parents. But your life partner trusts you to be honest with her, to not do things that would hurt her. She is an equal to you. She deserves to know who you are, what makes you thick, including the fact that you obviously think it's ok to use women for your pleasure.

If you think you can "get away with it" and that "she'll never know"... good luck. I can assure you I would have preferred it a 100 times if my H had had the balls (pun intended) to tell me himself, rather than me having to find out.

Edited to add: compare the truth you are planning to withhold from your W to this scenario.
Say you really want to have children. Say you are actually trying to have one. Then W get pregnant, but she doesn't tell you, decides to have an abortion because she isn't sure she wants it, and chooses not to tell you. Do you think that would be a wise choice (her not telling you)? Wouldn't you want to know that she did it, why she did it, and wouldn't you want to have the choice to remain in a M with someone who lies to you about such an important matter? A chance to work through this, perhaps, of getting over your resentment for her selfish actions and lies? To go to counseling and work it out so your M will be even stronger and more mature afterwards...

<small>[ January 10, 2005, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: brownhair ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LINY:
<strong> Rather than editing....

Your marriage will be "kept" on lies....

Your wife has no say so in this?!?!? What is your definition of a marriage? (Did you say it was just a piece of paper?) Does it involve two people? And your choice is to keep your wife out of it? HUH? Yeah, it's what you choose...but your choices affect her. I really don't know what else to add. I'm at a loss for opinions/help/advice betond what I've already posted.

And when I said the journey has just begun, do you wnat it based on lies for the rest of your marriage? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll never have to lie to her about this. It will NEVER be brought up. As far as I'm concerned, it never happened.

so you take away the woman you say you love more than any other the right of freedom to choose..
the right to make informed decisions about her life.....

I feel really really really bad for your wife...

that's not mean
that's not judgemental...
that is fact....

and it is your RIGHT to choose....to lie to her
and you deny her RIGHT to know the truth...
and there is nothing right about it...

sad sad sad it is...

ARK...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by brownhair:
<strong>Edited to add: compare the truth you are planning to withhold from your W to this scenario.
Say you really want to have children. Say you are actually trying to have one. Then W get pregnant, but she doesn't tell you, decides to have an abortion because she isn't sure she wants it, and chooses not to tell you. Do you think that would be a wise choice (her not telling you)? Wouldn't you want to know that she did it, why she did it, and wouldn't you want to have the choice to remain in a M with someone who lies to you about such an important matter? A chance to work through this, perhaps, of getting over your resentment for her selfish actions and lies? To go to counseling and work it out so your M will be even stronger and more mature afterwards... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Two completely different things we're talking about here. Even if she did that, I'd still want to be with her.

Look, it comes down to this...if I tell her, it will hurt her beyond comprehension. It will have a dramatic affect on her life, and can possibly ruin her career. I'm not about to ruin her life just so I can say we have a 100% honest marriage. Sorry, it's just not worth it. In life, the honest and/or honorable decision is not always the right decision. Sometimes you have to do things in the best interest of all involved.

Lying by omission is still lying.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As far as I'm concerned, it never happened. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How totally and completly convenient - FOR YOU!!!

Also, how selfish, disgusting, and abhorrant.

Must be awfully nice to be able to rewrite your history like that. Very WS of you.

For those of us who prefer our lives to be honest, though, I must say you are hopeless and quite possibly beyond help.

You slept with a prostitute mulitple times. You welcomed her and all the other people she's ever "serviced" into you marriage bed. Now you will willingly and knowingly force those other on your wife, unbeknownst to her. Yep. That is quite possibly the most wicked and selfish thing I've ever heard.

Sorry. Your infidelity has no place here. If you wanted to FIX yourself, you had come to the right place. But you're not here to do that. You're here to vent your story to us, thinly veiled as a plea for help...once you got the advice to tell, you decided the juice wasn't worth the squeeze (aka: the gain wasn't worth the pain) and you will take the coward's way out.

Come back when you're ready to glue the pieces of you marriage back with superglue, not flour paste.

- Kimmy

It's true..

Sometimes you DO have to do what is best for all invloved.

Unfortunately, you chose not to.

And how DARE you attempt to justify lying to your wife about having SEX with another woman with the pretense of protecting anyone but yourself.

If you were concerned about hurting her..you wouldn't have done it.

If you were concerned about hurting her..you would provide her the choice of NOT taking the same risk you took.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

On the one hand..it was just sex..no big..really just like a haircut <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> it never happenned and you have the ability to banish this to the void land of "Oops". [You do have the ability to alter reality to your liking, right?]

On the other hand..she and everyone else involved will be "hurt" by the knowledge [and yet somehow not the action, go figure] and so..in the interest of protection [and only protection, of course] you must take this to your grave.

What a caring gesture.

Denial and rationalization have not served you well thus far. Maybe it's time to try a different approach.

You have wronged your wife and you are too afraid to look directly at it and face the consequences.

Until and unless you are able to do this..you are seriously wanting by any measure of judgement.

You can not escape yourself. You can not escape what you have done. You CAN escape what you are ABOUT to do..how many regrets are you willing to pile on before you just accept this? How many will your wife be willing to forgive?


Nondisclosure makes you a rapist in my opinion.

Not that my opinion figures into the equation.

Let's ask your wife what she thinks.

Her opinion counts, right?

Noodle

Let me sum this up:
- you lie about what you do and what you are to the woman you say you love
- you think it's ok to use women
- you honestly believe that "she'll never find out"
- you choose to think "it never happened"

Perhaps this is the sort of person you want to be.
It's not the sort of person I want to be.

Did you at least have a hard look at yourself and realise WHY you think it's ok to use a woman for sex and cheat on your wife? Oh yes, it's cheating, if you doubt it, ask your wife what SHE thinks about it. Did you CHANGE your view on life and women? Or will you simply do the same, go to another prostitute, or have sex with another willing woman, when you "feel the need"?

If you put your head in the sand.. saying "it never happened".. you are, logically, very likely to repeat your mistake. You need to fix yourself, not deny you did what you did.

No. This IS in the best interest of all involved. It's not rationalization. It's fact. I've looked at my situation LOGICALLY, and this is what computed. It's easy for you people to say what my decision should be because, to you, I'm just another story. Well guess what, this is MY life, this is a REAL situation, and if you were in my shoes, it wouldn't be such an easy decision for you to make if you decided to tell your spouse, I assure you.

Pearls before swine. I'm done, stick a fork in me.

Noodle

[edited to add..Maybe if you just keep saying it enough times it will start to be true..has that ever worked? I AM doing the right thing by lying and exposing her to disease..I AM doing the right thing by lying and exposing her to disease..I AM doing the right thing by lying and exposing her to disease..I AM doing the right thing by lying and exposing her to disease..huh, no luck yet..but I'm sure you have an answer for that. Logic has no place here, just yellow bellied fear and self absorption.]

<small>[ January 10, 2005, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: noodle ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by brownhair:
<strong> Let me sum this up:
- you lie about what you do and what you are to the woman you say you love</strong>

I will not disclose what I did this one time. I'm not lying about what I am. Like I said before, this event doesn't define who I am...not even CLOSE!

<strong>
- you think it's ok to use women</strong>

I think it's ok to use people in general.

<strong>
- you honestly believe that "she'll never find out"</strong>

It's not a belief, it's a fact.

<strong>
- you choose to think "it never happened"
</strong>

Basically, yes. That's the way I have to view it if I want to carry on with my life.

<strong>
If you put your head in the sand.. saying "it never happened".. you are, logically, very likely to repeat your mistake. You need to fix yourself, not deny you did what you did. </strong>

And by telling my wife, ending my marriage, how is that going to solve anything? "Fixing myself" and "denying what I did" are not mutually exclusive things.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Nobody said it was easy. NOBODY!

You've done a distrustful, hurtful thing.

What you fail to do, what you keep failing to do, is to fix this distrustful, hurtful thing. Infact, you gloss over it because it's "best for all involoved" in your opinion. Apparently, your wife's opinion of what's best for HER is unimportant to YOU.

Selfish, selfish, selfish.

I will tell you FROM EXPERIENCE, that you might be in for a shocker if your wife finds out. She MAY just choose to work it out. Stranger things have happened, you know. I also know FROM EXPERIENCE that never in a million years would I have thought I'd stay with my dwh - esp. after all he's done. But, of course, you know her so WELL...just like she knew YOU so well...(dripping sarcasm). Just like my dwh knew ME so WELL (NOT)! OH! And just something to think about: You may THINK that your wife may never find out on her own...but what if...just what if she does???? Can you imagine that hearing it from someone else would be easier on her than hearing it from your own repentant lips? But no, in your little world, sequestering her in the hopes that there will never be a chance meeting of OW at the mall or flea market or out to dinner is never part of your vision.

Again, come back when you've faced what you've done and want to fix it. You're too busy making excuses for why you CAN'T do the right thing to ever envision a future where you both grow together in trust.

- Kimmy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SleeplessInSF:
<strong> [QUOTE]
Yes I'm sure my "coach" would think me trying to help another person with whom I can identify would be a bad idea?????? Isn't that the exact reasons these boards exist? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, that is why the boards exist. Yet, you attempted to draw mindsink away from these boards to another site and/or a private conversation with you. You fail to comprehend why this is not a good practice.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I'm not here to debate with you BA. I had something to offer Mindsink. I'm done arguing with you. Have a nice day. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nor I with you. Regarding offering your assistance to mindsink on this thread...your posts, IMO, have been disruptive rather than helpful.

You have a nice day too.

Sorry to all for the disruption.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> - you think it's ok to use women

I think it's ok to use people in general.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And therein, my Marriage Building friends, is the crux of the problem. Apparently it's okay to use people, in this man's eyes - including his wife.

We are pawns in his game. Lovely. Wheeeee.

Does anyone else feel like used tissue?

Off of this one right now. Ick.