Whether she finds out on her own, or I tell her, the consequences are the same: bye-bye.

I just had a talk with my friend who's also married. He's the most ethical person I know of, and he says that in life (not just marriage), there are things that need to be kept to yourself.

You people are nuts. To think, I was even 'this' >< close to coming clean and telling my wife. I must be out of my mind!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">if I tell her, it will hurt her beyond comprehension. It will have a dramatic affect on her life, and can possibly ruin her career.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What you DID is what will hurt her beyond comprehension. You seem to view it as "what she doesn't know can't hurt her."

I hope that you will be open to the idea that it is already hurting her even thought she doesn't have the full picture. It's not just your actions, but your withholding of information that are damaging. I have seen others post to you that your wife deserves to make her own decision with ALL facts to be considered.

I'm not trying to hit you with a 2x4. I just hope that you will consider the issue from all angles. I assume that you didn't intentionally set out to hurt your wife. You were simply meeting your needs, selfishly. Your infidelity was a selfish act. Wouldn't the unselfish thing be to give her the respect of making a choice for herself? The damage has already been done, regardless of whether she knows or not. By not informing her, you are protecting yourself. What you are trying to preserve is a false sense of happiness for her. Don't you care enough about her to allow her the opportunity to have TRUE happiness, whether her decision is to remain with you and work towards achieving that or to end the marriage so she can pursue true happiness without you.

Revealing this to your wife doesn't have to be viewed as a bad thing. I realize that it's terrifying to imagine disclosing this to her. But by keeping this secret, you are also providing a false sense of happiness for yourself. Wouldn't it feel good just to do the "right" thing and unselfishly, regardless of the outcome, put her needs before your own.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sorry, it's just not worth it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It can be. Look at the bigger picture rather than the concept of instant gratification. If you made the decision to stop denying your wife the opporunity to have a truly happy life it would be a major step towards taking full responsibility for your actions. There is a wealth of support here for you. Please reconsider.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by frozen1229:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">if I tell her, it will hurt her beyond comprehension. It will have a dramatic affect on her life, and can possibly ruin her career.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What you DID is what will hurt her beyond comprehension. You seem to view it as "what she doesn't know can't hurt her."

I hope that you will be open to the idea that it is already hurting her even thought she doesn't have the full picture. It's not just your actions, but your withholding of information that are damaging. I have seen others post to you that your wife deserves to make her own decision with ALL facts to be considered.

I'm not trying to hit you with a 2x4. I just hope that you will consider the issue from all angles. I assume that you didn't intentionally set out to hurt your wife. You were simply meeting your needs, selfishly. Your infidelity was a selfish act. Wouldn't the unselfish thing be to give her the respect of making a choice for herself? The damage has already been done, regardless of whether she knows or not. By not informing her, you are protecting yourself. What you are trying to preserve is a false sense of happiness for her. Don't you care enough about her to allow her the opportunity to have TRUE happiness, whether her decision is to remain with you and work towards achieving that or to end the marriage so she can pursue true happiness without you.

Revealing this to your wife doesn't have to be viewed as a bad thing. I realize that it's terrifying to imagine disclosing this to her. But by keeping this secret, you are also providing a false sense of happiness for yourself. Wouldn't it feel good just to do the "right" thing and unselfishly, regardless of the outcome, put her needs before your own.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sorry, it's just not worth it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It can be. Look at the bigger picture rather than the concept of instant gratification. If you made the decision to stop denying your wife the opporunity to have a truly happy life it would be a major step towards taking full responsibility for your actions. There is a wealth of support here for you. Please reconsider. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you ever seen "the Matrix" (movie)? People go on living happily in their lives even though their ENTIRE life is a lie. I see a correlation to my situation, and I've asked myself: would I choose to live in the Matrix, or would I choose to open my eyes to the real world? I'd choose the Matrix, and I'm making the same choice for my wife.

Mindsink,

I can fully understand that you are scared. The problem is though that most of the time, the betrayed spouse finds out. He/She almost ALWAYS does.

You are afraid that you are going to loose your wife. I know this feeling because when I found out about my husband's EA with the OW, I was afraid that I was going to loose my husband.

It's your decision whether or not you will inform your spouse. But, you may keep in mind that she may find out someday.

Please go to the doctor though and get tested for every possible STD there is and refrain from any intimacies with your wife until you are SURE that you are clean. You could be putting her life as well as the one of a potential baby at risk.

You may also wish to get some individual counseling.

Good luck!

Kati

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mindsink:
<strong> Whether she finds out on her own, or I tell her, the consequences are the same: bye-bye.

I just had a talk with my friend who's also married. He's the most ethical person I know of, and he says that in life (not just marriage), there are things that need to be kept to yourself.

You people are nuts. To think, I was even 'this' >< close to coming clean and telling my wife. I must be out of my mind!!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mindsink:
<strong> this event doesn't define who I am...not even CLOSE!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>[/QUOTE]

I'd say this event followed by your cowardly attempts of justification define exactly who you are. The only thing left is to figure out who you want to be and pursue that. If you're happy playing God for your wife, living a lie, and never taking responsibility for your actions then power to you.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kati:
<strong> Mindsink,

Please go to the doctor though and get tested for every possible STD there is and refrain from any intimacies with your wife until you are SURE that you are clean. You could be putting her life as well as the one of a potential baby at risk.

</strong>

Since my wife's been off the pill for almost a year now, I use a condom. I'm gonna get tested anyways.

It doesn't matter. Certain STD's can still be transmitted. Even nonfatal STD's can alter your life and that of your wife forever. You may feel embarrassed to go to a clinic, but do it anyway. It's the least that you can do. "Annie" has probably slept with many many men in her life, not only here, but more than likely also in Korea, and a condom is not always 100% safe.

I also think that you should hold off having a child for a while. What you did is a terrible thing and under no circumstances should you bring a little baby into this. You may be surprised at your reaction when you will see your wife. Right now, she's far away, but when you have to look into her eyes, it may be very difficult for you.

I would definitely suggest MC, even if you choose not to tell your wife about the adultery. Do not have a baby until your marriage is a safe place.

Kati

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mindsink:
<strong> [QUOTE]Originally posted by Kati:

Since my wife's been off the pill for almost a year now, I use a condom. I'm gonna get tested anyways. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I fully recognize your rationalization. For a time in my life, I followed much the same principle. I no longer follow that ideal and choose to disclose all to my wife.

I want to make what seems to be, to me, an important point, however.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.. and I'm making the same choice for my wife. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your words. You are making the choice for her. Yet you are making the choice for you. Quite possibly you are perfectly fine with her making choices for you and never letting you know about them... not unlike buying a car without consulting you first. Totally not unlike she has an affair on you and you never get to know about it, because she chooses to not tell you. Would you leave her if she did? Would you try to work it out if she did?

At the very least, put yourself in her shoes. Just imagine for a moment she paid for sex(keeping with your situation) and then she never told you about it. You would go on happily with your life, yes? Ignorance is bliss and all of that. Now, taking all arguments that "women can't keep that kind of emotional baggage down" away, how would you feel if you did find out? And she made the choice for you that you would get to live a life of bliss when in fact she had done something such as that, and that possibly it would have changed your decision making process significantly had you known about it?

Fact: You can not 100% guarantee that she will never find out. I am a math guy. degree and everything... So, what you are calling fact is really a high probability. Maybe. Maybe not. Can you be so sure that the prostitute won't inform your wife or threaten you for money to not tell your wife?

I am not telling you what to do. But I will state the facts, with mathematical certainty.

You are married and were currently married when you engaged in sex(for money or not makes no difference).(you say you are married... so to give credence to my "fact" statement, I extend that this is an assumption based on what you have told here)

You state explicitly that you are making the choice for your wife.

You can not, to a 100% degree of certainty, say that she will never find out. Probability may be on your side in this, but not 100%

So... if risking that she will never find out(a risk, no matter how small or how large that may be... still a risk) AND making the choice for her so that she lives a life that does not have an affair in the past(even though there is an affair in the past for her and she does not know it) is fine with you, then what do you wish to gain from this site?

I recall for your first post or so, that you had feelings for the prostitute. If you need to deal with those, then focus on that. I will say this, however. The longer you continue to have any relationship(including sex or not) with the prostitute whilst still having a relationship with your wife and she's unaware of the OW, the more likely probability is going to start leaning away from you, my friend. It's always harder to hide more evidence, especially when frequency is the reason for the evidence.


You seem intelligent. I am merely tossing out there that you should really, consciously put yourself in her shoes. Imagine the roles reversed and really try it on. If you are perfectly fine with it, then continue on your path. Good luck. If not, then explore it and make the hard decisions. You have already done what you have done.

You can spend a lifetime running from the lies. You can never run from the truth. Your call.

You people are nuts. To think, I was even 'this' >< close to coming clean and telling my wife. I must be out of my mind!!!

Lmao.....go back and read some of your posts Mindsink and then you'll hopefully see who the real nutcase is around here.

I've kept up with your story since day one, and you haven't made a postive move in the right direction yet, (well except for saying goodbye to Annie...for now).

Guys I don't recommend you to post to Mindsink anymore, your just wasting your breath. IMHO he came here to see if he can get reassurance on something he already had his mind set on doing. Lying to his wife.

Mindsink,your one of the worst WS around. What goes around comes around...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mindsink:
<strong>Have you ever seen "the Matrix" (movie)? People go on living happily in their lives even though their ENTIRE life is a lie. I see a correlation to my situation, and I've asked myself: would I choose to live in the Matrix, or would I choose to open my eyes to the real world? I'd choose the Matrix, and I'm making the same choice for my wife. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Doesn't she have a choice to choose "blue pill" or "red pill" ?. Who are you making that choice for her ?

For your own sake, if you think she can't take the truth now ... what do you think if she find out later ?. It is not only betrayal on M about deception on your character.

You took the red pill already, you knew the truth !. You are just a visitor in the matrix. Could you be truly happy in the matrix knowing that there is real world out there ?.

Are you going to be Neo, the one ? or mr. Regan, the one who betrayed his freinds ?

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mindsink:
<strong> Whether she finds out on her own, or I tell her, the consequences are the same: bye-bye.

I just had a talk with my friend who's also married. He's the most ethical person I know of, and he says that in life (not just marriage), there are things that need to be kept to yourself.

You people are nuts. To think, I was even 'this' >< close to coming clean and telling my wife. I must be out of my mind!!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow. Just had to reread this over and over and over.

Considering your own ethics, not sure "the most ethical person I know" will do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll never have to lie to her about this. It will NEVER be brought up. As far as I'm concerned, it never happened.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As trix said, ommission from the truth is lying--however you want to rationalize it.

And why get yourself checked for STD's? You care nothing of your wife's mental well-being; what's the difference of her physical well-being? Oh, that's right: You're a self-proclaimed narcisist. Not sure how you can see your reflection, though: the water is full of pond scum. Or is that how you perceive yourself? Regardless of reality? Regardless of the fact that you went out and ****ed a woman--with your wife's hard-earned money--and then thought you had "feelings" for her? And now pretend like it never happened?!?!? Wow.

Oh, and by the way--at one point, many of us "nuts" had the same mindset as you. Sad, huh?

BTW, your wife WILL find out some day and it will be worse than you telling her now. I had an A nearly 10 years ago and my H just found out a couple months ago. He is more devastated, angry and hurt by my deception over the years than the A itself. On top of that our M suffered because I always had to be on top of my lies, so our intimacy suffered. It is your choice, that is true. But what about your W's choice?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You people are nuts. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's funny. Who are you to diagnose the inmates? I think any in the mental health field would be able to point out the truly bent one here. At least we help ourselves even if it's a huge slice of humble pie (in some cases).

I came here looking for advice on saving my marriage, because I was in the early stages of "straying". I've already overcome any and all feelings for Annie. That was step #1. Step #2 is working on my relationship with my wife. The problems that I have in our marriage go WAY BEYOND my soon-to-be dishonesty. I'm going to address those as best as I can. Telling my wife about this is putting the proverbial dagger in the heart of our marriage. You people aren't trying to help me save my marriage. You're trying to make me end it, because it's the honest, noble, and honorable thing to do. I AGREE, it is, but sorry, that's not gonna happen.

I look at it like this...marriage is like a house...There's a foundation, and you build upon it. By telling my wife, I'm basically burning my house down, and ripping out the foundation, for the very very minute chance that I can build a new foundation and start over. Why? Because I mistakenly painted one of the rooms red instead of blue. Well, I'm just gonna paint over it.

Mr. Math guy, I'll win PowerBall before my wife finds out. #1, Annie lives and works far away. #2, she BARELY speaks English. #3, she doesn't give a rat's a$$ about me and could care less even if by remote chance she does see me in public. #4, the money I used was cash from winning an office football pool (which my wife doesn't know about). There is one way she could find out, and that is if I contracted an uncurable viral disease that could ONLY come from sex (knock on wood) - that being genital herpes and HIV. Again, I used protection, so the chances are basically 0%.

Wow! And this is the woman that you considered leaving your wife for???

Kati

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mindsink:
<strong> Annie doesn't give a rat's a$$ about me and could care less even if by remote chance she does see me in public. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Without a WILLINGNESS to possess OPENNESS and HONESTY, what are you saving? Not a marriage, that's for sure.

Sorry bud, but your proverbial house is now resting on sand rather than a strong foundation and it really doesn't matter what color the walls are, it's going to sink.

If in fact you came here looking for advice on how to save your marriage, you've received it and I think it's pretty consistant. We are here to help but you are unwilling to listen, unwilling to be open to new ideas (such as RADICAL HONESTY), and unwilling to put forth the effort to save it for fear of tripping on your pride or ego.

I am curious, why doesn't your wife know about the football money? Is your communication that bad? Or do you make it a habit of hiding stuff from her, besides the affair?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Kati:
<strong> Wow! And this is the woman that you considered leaving your wife for???

Kati
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah. Stupid, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

A little help for you...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I came here looking for advice on saving my marriage, because I was in the early stages of "straying". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are no early stages. You have strayed. Same as being a little bit pregnant. You either are or you are not. You are either an adulterer, or you are not. Since you had sex with someone that wasnt your wife, then that makes you an adulterer. So, please do not whitewash this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've already overcome any and all feelings for Annie. That was step #1. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, that is step #2. Step #1 was telling your wife. But I will get to that in a minute.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Step #2 is working on my relationship with my wife. The problems that I have in our marriage go WAY BEYOND my soon-to-be dishonesty. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">again, stop white washing. Soon-to-be? You have been dishonest this whole time. And if you keep this from her, you will be dishonest well into the future. Sins of omission!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm going to address those as best as I can. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How you gonna do that without telling her? Be a better husband? How is that possible if she doesnt even know who you are?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Telling my wife about this is putting the proverbial dagger in the heart of our marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry my man. The dagger was Annie. And that marriage is already dead.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You people aren't trying to help me save my marriage. You're trying to make me end it, because it's the honest, noble, and honorable thing to do. I AGREE, it is, but sorry, that's not gonna happen. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First off, no one wants you to end that marriage...it has already ended. You need to see that. Second, if it is "honest, noble and honorable," then you are saying that you are going to continue being dishonest, immoral (opposite of noble), and having no honor? Is that what you are saying? Your wife does not deserve a man that would be these things. Everyone makes mistakes. The real man understands that the honorable thing to do is to stand up and be counted...not to hide.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I look at it like this...marriage is like a house...There's a foundation, and you build upon it. By telling my wife, I'm basically burning my house down, and ripping out the foundation, for the very very minute chance that I can build a new foundation and start over. Why? Because I mistakenly painted one of the rooms red instead of blue. Well, I'm just gonna paint over it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good analogy...but you got it wrong. The basis of a marriage (the foundation) is commitment. Your marriage's foundation is built on sand because your commitment level to it has been as shakey as sand. So, you want to keep building on sand? You want your wife to keep believing in something that is just fantasy? Because, for her to believe that you are this guy who has committed to her for life and is faithful, is just that...mere fantasy!!

Okay Mindsink. Now that I have been hammering you a little here, let me let you in on a little secret. We want your marriage to succeed. We want you to be an honorable man and own up to your msitakes. We want you and your wife to live in a marriage, happily ever after. But guess what? Right now, you are not that man and that marriage does not exist. And "painting over it" or ignoring it wont change that fact. Ever see that movie "Weekend at Bernies?" Bernie was dead, but they dressed him up and carried him around for the weekend. Everyone kept thinking Bernie was alive, but if they had looked closer, they would have seen something wasnt right. Eventually, your wife will see something isnt right.

God will not honor dishonesty. He will honor honesty and repentance. You chose to do this His way, you chose to follow these MB principles, and you have a good chance at having a great marriage.

You chose to do it your way...and I will bet everything that it wont turn out like you had hoped. These people here want to help you. But, in order to help you, you have to be willing to do what is expected. If not, then maybe MB isnt for you. Maybe you need to go elsewhere, where someone can tell you what you want to hear.

You see, many people say "I dont know what to do." But that is the WRONG answer. It may be a TRUE answer, but it is still the WRONG answer. Why? Because, we know what GOD wants us to do. And God is always right. So, even though we dont know what we want to do, we know what He wants us to do...and we should do it.

Honesty, commitment, faithfulness. That is what He wants you to do. That is the mark of a honorable man. So, who are you? Are you a man of honor who made a mistake? Or is the deeper problem here that your wife married a man who at his core, is of questionable nature?

In His arms.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mindsink:
<strong>You people aren't trying to help me save my marriage.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not the marriage that you want to build which is prone to desease and rooten. Not at all cost either.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>You're trying to make me end it, because it's the honest, noble, and honorable thing to do. I AGREE, it is, but sorry, that's not gonna happen.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First the logic is wrong here. We have nothing to gain from saving/ending your M. It is not b/c of honest, noble, and honorable ... which we know you aren't. IT IS BECAUSE IN ORDER TO HAVE FULFILLIN M YOU NEED RADICAL HONESTY We try to tell you that the marriage that you save and try to rebuild would not make you happy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Why? Because I mistakenly painted one of the rooms red instead of blue. Well, I'm just gonna paint over it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is not the paint ... it is the meldew <sp> that you didn't take out and you just want to paint it over. IT WILL SHOW UP AGAIN.

[/quote][/qb] so the chances are basically 0%. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Your math is good but your logic is flawed ... And your chances of real happy and fulfillin M is 0% too.

Good luck and promise me let us know 10 years from now.
-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LostHusband:
<strong> Without a WILLINGNESS to possess OPENNESS and HONESTY, what are you saving? Not a marriage, that's for sure.

Sorry bud, but your proverbial house is now resting on sand rather than a strong foundation and it really doesn't matter what color the walls are, it's going to sink.

If in fact you came here looking for advice on how to save your marriage, you've received it and I think it's pretty consistant. We are here to help but you are unwilling to listen, unwilling to be open to new ideas (such as RADICAL HONESTY), and unwilling to put forth the effort to save it for fear of tripping on your pride or ego.

I am curious, why doesn't your wife know about the football money? Is your communication that bad? Or do you make it a habit of hiding stuff from her, besides the affair? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Convince me that RADICAL HONESTY will save my marriage, and I will consider it.

She doesn't know about the football pool, because she doesn't know every little detail about my day-to-day life. I gamble a lot, and she knows it. As long as I don't dip into our joint account, she's fine with it, and no, she doesn't want to be an accountant for my gambling activities. She buys lots of things too -- clothes, jewlery, shoes, etc. I don't question her when she buys it and I don't keep tabs on what she buys.