ss:

"I think you should go for an even 100,347.8 posts before you quit. Seems more fitting to me."

Shoot! I must have dropped a minus or something, or divided the whole equation by the equal sign! I came up with 100,346.8!

Orchid: I missed my oppor2nity 2 2uit at 2222. That may be un42nate. 22222 is a bit down the road. Guess I'll worry about it then, though.

-ol' 2long

2Long...
Hmm, let me just check this... you said your wife still works with the OM? 3 years later?

Ok, at 3 years, if she still doesn't understand the principle of this being wrong, I would have to say, either you haven't yet told her how unhappy and miserable this makes you, so, in a sense, it's still your fault... or, she simply doesn't care about how much she is hurting you.

Either way, you gotta figure it out. At three years, for me, the choice would be simple, I'd ask my wife to quit her job...I think you can see that money doesn't buy hapiness, so...the argument that you can't afford for her to quit isn't really gonna hold water... if she refuses, then she is choosing a career over her marriage... if she agrees, I think you can see her committment to you and build from that.

Hang in there.

RK:

"Hmm, let me just check this... you said your wife still works with the OM? 3 years later?"

42nately (hey, I got 2 use that word in 2 consecutive posts!!!) they don't work 2gether anymore. During the first A, which started 14 years ago, they shared an office in grad school and worked 2gether. I didn't find out about that A, but the OMW did, and made them move 2 NM. The 2nd A started after my W hired OM as a consultant. He stayed in NM, but they corresponded a lot (inappropriately) during that time and met 2 times in person. After d-day, he was still consulting for her on a 2ple of projects. I did "insist" that either she quit or she fire him (he was consistently very late), but she refused. So, I do take some responsibility for the pain I went through while he continued working for her. She ended up quitting that job about a year and a half ago, after her employer found out about the A and started demanding that OM finish his reports and re2rn everything 2 them. My W didn't know they'd learned of the A until a few months later. Anyway, she quit about a year and a half ago, and he ended up never finishing his work, but having 2 deal with her supervisor after she'd left (which was not pleasant, from what I saw <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ).

She saw him a 2ple of times after that, in an effort 2 try 2 justify a continued professional relationship, but I have reiterated that I won't tolerate any kind of relationship between them. I coached with Penny from about March or April last year through November. Penny believes that the EA really ended after she quit her job, even though she's had a really hard time letting go.

"Ok, at 3 years, if she still doesn't understand the principle of this being wrong, I would have to say, either you haven't yet told her how unhappy and miserable this makes you, so, in a sense, it's still your fault... or, she simply doesn't care about how much she is hurting you."

I think she understands, intellec2ally, that it's wrong. But she's still having a tough time with withdrawl. I sometimes feel like I haven't made how I feel clear, but other times I believe that I have. I don't want 2 hound her, but I don't want her 2 get complacent, either.

"if she agrees, I think you can see her committment to you and build from that."

Based on what she's done and is doing, jobwise, I think she is starting 2 understand what commitment means. She even made a positive comment about that a few weeks ago. She's no longer working full-time, just teaching part time. She also was asked if she'd be interested in going on the field trip that she met OM at his workplace on last March, and she said she couldn't because of our D's wedding preparations (but obviously the other is a reason as well). She's planning on going 2 a conference later that month that OM might be at (I can't remember if it's one that he does attend or not), and she's asking a close friend 2 share a room with her there. Part of this is her trying 2 find justifications for avoiding OM that aren't obviously NC-related, but in part I think she's still struggling and is trying 2 make sure she doesn't even inadvertently put herself in a tempting si2ation. But I need 2 ask!

"Hang in there."

Thanques, I'll do my best!
-ol' 2long

2long:
It's probably because you used a mac, and I used my fingers.

SS

ss:

Well at least you acknowledged that a Mac might be a little better at the task than fingers!

It's more than redhat would do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

Hey, 2long, haven't read all this thread but you know as well as I do that you won't quit.

I came on the end of your thread here to say I've just seen a news item about NASA sending up the rocket to hit the comet.

A guy came on to talk about it and I thought, hmmmm, I wonder if that's 2long.

It was a very interesting item, BTW, even for a total non spacie like me.

Jen

<small>[ January 13, 2005, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: KiwiJ. ]</small>

KiwiJ:

Nope, that wasn't me. I do Mars. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I did get the binos out and gee whiz Comet Macholz a little while ago.

It's so odd being able 2 see the sky after all the rain we got!

-ol' 2long

2long, there is not one other person that I know "personally" who can say "I do Mars." I'm not being smutty or sarcastic, I'm genuinely impressed.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Jen

I've just gone through a bizzare rollercoaster high/low. Wasn't going 2 talk about it, but think I'll try 2 get this out anyway. 2x4 me or buy me a beer. Your choice (though I prefer beer).

Our marriage IS "reasonably good" these days. No question about that. It's just that 14 years since the beginning of the first A with OM is a long time, and I don't think we've "properly" processed the events of the past yet. At times (like about last week), it SEEMS like we may never do so, but that's when I forget how long it takes 2 get past a long term affair. We haven't even come close 2 some of the estimates I've heard.

These last several days, I've come back 2 feeling like MB and SYMC "methods" are perhaps 2 forceful at times (now I can see the 2x4s being raised in the croud!). I still don't *like* "Plan B" or "Protection Phase", but I do acknowledge that they can be pretty powerful (there's a forceful word for you, huh?) in ending a "full-blown affair" afflicting a "relatively" short-term marriage. My sitch fits neither all that well (here's where I duck the first volley of 2x4s!)

What I am clearly missing still is the ability 2 discuss potentially painful subjects with my W, right smack dab in the moment when the pangs hit. I'm a conflict avoider and so is she. Somebody has 2 break that ice even2ally, and since I know about how but don't know how 2 get myself past the fear factor, barrier, wall, whatever the metaphor, I sure can't expect her 2 (unless she's working on her own 2 find a way 2 break through herself, which is possible but not all that likely - ...and I duck the 2nd volley for that DJ!). So, I'll have 2 hunker down at some point and just break that ice somehow.

Then I've been thinking about chemistry - the stuff that makes for romance and makes marriage an attractive prospect for those in its grip, I can sure see why MB recommends time limits for their plans - again with the multiplier thrown in for long term marriages and "not full-blown" affairs. They talk about lovebanks emptying, and they do. Mine is getting pretty empty.

That would be FATAL for our marriage if it weren't for the fact that I've learned so much about unconditional love, it's reality, and how 2 apply it in my own life. What I'm talking about here ain't all that different from what MBers profess, using different terms. Even ark, who hates the term "unconditional love" is one of the best at it (I didn't didn't duck quickly enough 2 avoid her 2x4! Picking himself up off the floor and nursing the new knot above his right temple, ol' 2long continues...)

The love that sustains me in our marriage is a conscious choice that I've made, and a point of integrity that I will stand by. I can "worry" (not the right word, but I can't think of it right now... ...haid still hurts from the 2x4) about the romantic chemistry after I make sure that I haven't forgotten what real love really is.

There was an ad for Dr Phil's show this morning on the Lobotomy Box. A woman said that she didn't love her adopted son. Dr. Phil told her "it's your JOB 2 love your son". And that really hit me: It's my "job" 2 love my W (and my family). The Dr. Phil thing really is talking about responsibility. Obviously, a parent is obligated 2 nu2re their child. An adoptive parent has no less responsibility 2 do so than a bilogical parent, because they CHOSE 2 adopt just as sure as the bological parent CHOSE 2 have a child. How is getting married any less of a responsibility (and thus some other kind of love?). My W and I have a responsibility 2 love and nur2re one another because we CHOSE 2 get married, and then did so.

My W made a cool comment about a month ago regarding committment, that I think I posted elsewhere. She said "I think I understand and can accept that definition of committment), referring 2 a discussion about it within marriage on the 2day Show, if I remember right. What was interesting was her tone, what she meant (which is hard for me 2 convey because I don't remember the context or her exact words). Like she saw all at once the kinds of things I said in the last paragraph about choices and responsibilities, and what I've said before about how liberating it is 2 take responsibility for one's choices and consequences.

This whole journey continues 2 be a delicate balancing exercise for me. I feel pressure 2 force outcomes (mostly from my well-meaning friends from MB... ...ducks another whack, but misses the well-executed vertical arc from Pep's long-stemmed 2x4) on the one hand, and pressure 2 back off the pressure from my mostly-silent (these days) friends on www.iloveulove.com. Nobody is being malicious, mind you, but some are getting frustrated with me and my apparent or real stuckedness (2x4s EVERYWHERE!).

I guess I'll just keep on keeping on. Hope it's okay, but it doesn't matter if it's not. I have 2 do this anyway. Maybe as I go, I'll keep figuring things out and continue with the improvements. All of them.

-bruised and battered ol' 2long.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

So, what are some questions you have? Pose them here, let's look at that side of it. Perhaps voicing them here will help springboard you...I struggle personally like you with similair thoughts... but, I can't really come up with any questions that I need an answer to...

I may have a lot to say about this last of yours, but I'm thinkin.

I won't be using a 2x4 either, I don't think you need one.

SS

SS:

Hey, what are you doin' up?

Maybe I don't need a 2x4, but I'll bet youze all could use a few railroad ties!?

I heard about the rain-related news up your neck of the woods (he says "woods" with his tongue firmly planted in his cheek)!

-ol' 2long

This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, it just shows what a dork I am...

When I first saw 2uits, I read it as "twits".

Am I the only one???

Oh yeah, and I think you should maybe go for 22,222 posts!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

RookKev:

The questions? Hm...

Probably the biggest urgency stuff, or at least what I perceive 2 be "urgent" is the relationship-related, even the A-related stuff that Penny said I shouldn't be in such a hurry 2 ask. Why should I have 2 have R-talks? (her words). My W isn't having an A, she's here (never left), and we're a "team" putting our house back 2gether and getting ready for our D's wedding in 2 months (aaaaaaahhhhh!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

So, maybe I really have 2 think about this some more before I can come up with a response. And maybe that's my biggest problem. I read and post here with the mindset that I'm still embroiled in the post-d-day mess. I sure was, but at some point I must have transitioned from mostly "real" 2 mostly my imagination. Don't know for sure, and I guess it doesn't really matter.

What I think Penny would like me 2 post sometime (and many of you, 2) is that I addressed a problem when it came up and we discussed it and came 2 an amicable decision about it.

Me 2, frankly.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> -ol' 2long

luvbird! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

How hilarious! I didn't even realize that! I DO spell "twits" with a 2, but I think I do it "2wits". Here, the 2 is a script capitol Q!

But I like your interpretation better! It fits!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

edited 2 add: Don't lovebirds "2witter?" Or do they croon?

-ol' 2long <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ January 13, 2005, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

2long, maybe like me you are just plain uncomfortable with not having inconvertible proof of NC? After an LTA, NC is not easily accepted/believed by a BS (well, not me anyway). After all, there were various long periods of NC during the A, but it always restarted at the drop of a hat.

Honestly, I wake up every morning expecting today to be the day I find out there has been contact again. It eats at me. It creates all sots of ancillary worries. Colors everything. It amplifies everything. Makes all other molehills look like mountains.

S_ has promised she will tell me if she even sees him from afar. She says she will not talk to him. And then I read something like KiwiJ’s thread and how she had a nice little unplanned chat with FOM and I think, what will I do when S_ runs into him?

Hell, I think I will run away and join the Foreign Legion.

I think most of my various worries and general dejection at times are refection of this one big issue in my head. Nothing could kill this LTA. So what will reanimate it again this time?

Maybe you can identify one main issue (and I don’t think it’s CA in general) and see if that is what makes everything else so murky.

Is there a Foreign Legion any more?

T

Thos:

I don't know, but if contact resumes over here, maybe you and I can form one of our own.

Where should we go? How about someplace like Belize? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think you've nailed my recurring worry. It's why OM is on my mind at all - no closure. No promise of NC or 2 tell me if she runs in2 him either.

Last time we talked about it, in August was when I said something 2 her 2uestion "what do you expect me 2 do?" and I said "Just STOP IT." I had also been very firm with her about HER responsibility in the breakup of HIS family. Whereas previously, she seemed 2 glom on2 a statement I made a number of times that *included* "He made his own choices and is responsible for the consequences of those choices" as if I was telling her that she had nothing 2 do with his choices (she WAS his choice!).

But I could get myself all a'flutter over it at the drop of a hat, as you say. I have 2 consciously choose not 2 go there. It's hard, as you know.

Trust is going 2 be hard for my W 2 rebuild. I think she's slowly realizing it. We've got a long way 2 go, 2. I really like the "trust, but verify" suggestion given 2 Amber Fry when asked if she would ever be able 2 trust "men" again. I like it because my W heard it, and it made her think. Don't know where it will go, but it did spark a synapse.

I also really like the idea of working 2 address my concerns in the moment when they come up, so as 2 not CA and also 2 not sound like the convo is contrived by being sometime after the fact (though I would agree it's legit 2 say something like "I've got something I'd like 2 say, but would rather not now".

I've got a lot of work 2 do.

-ol' 2long

Hah, 2long and thos, soldiers of fortune. We can hire ourselves out whnever the bastions of M need defending.

Hey, maybe Idiotville needs an army?

T

Thos:

I need 2 get over there 2 idiotville! I tried 2 get in2 it once, but got distracted by some cool rock or something...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-ol' 2long

Dude, you kick my butt in the number of posts department! I'm only at 1800 or so after 2.5 years.....

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />