Well, I trusted WW to take kids to dinner, cause she said that she would not have OM there.

Not only was OM there, but she told the kids to lie for her about it, and then dumped our kids off with his, and spent evening walking around mall with OM.

I'm so mad right now, i could chew through an iron bar!!!

She also told DS14 that she was ok with him getting a tattoo for his 15th B-Day (next week) she said he should get my ok first. She said she is going to get a butterfly on her lower back (she always hated tattoos, especially on women).

I want to call her and rip her a new A-hole, but that would be a huge LB, and not do any good, so I'm basically venting, and looking for some advice

What should I tell her when she calls to "spend time" with our kids???

I am very sorry that you have to go through this. I was in a similar situation with my WH and the OW. He promised (even signed a written statement) that OW would not be there. Well guess what? HE LIED.
She and her kids met up with my WH and OUR kids.

This is what *I* did and I suggest you do as well. I don't know your situation completly, but in VA they have a big NO NO against third party law. I got a RO against OW. Secondly, WH is not 'allowed' to take the kids from the house for visits.
I am havnig trouble with this right now, but he is NOT putting the kids best interest first, and nither is your WS. It is YOUR job to do that.

JMHO.
Danielle

I am waiting on the date for the emergency hearing regarding custody, in that I am requesting guarded visitation for WW, and No Contact with OM. based on the facts and evidence, I think I will get both.

WW is in for a huge shock when she learns that she will lose legal custody, have to pay for the 3rd party supervisor of her visitation, and have to pay child support.

I can't take any more of this crap, I want to go over to her place, and look both her & OM in the eyes, and tell them to leave our kids out of their affair. But I won't because I can only see that causing me more heartache with the judge.

hosea...

go for conversations that include witnesses and emails type of things...

things that can assist you at the hearing...

your biggest motivator is your attempt to protect the kids from her normalizing the new family and their replacement...

until the hearing have the kids appropriately involved in other things that make it difficult for her to do things...with them..innocently though.....

have the kids have friends over.....so that when she requests to take the kids...
say oh rats sorry but daughters friend ___________is here...and they are doing this or that....and friends parents are coming here to get them....blah blah blah...

just deflections.....

agree to have her COME see the kids...
out in public..where you are as well.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

hosea..you are doing remarkabley well...NOT rising to her bait AWESOME

be wary of her escalations to bait you into verbal and even more scary physical confrontations to help her side legally against you.....

document the kids being told to lie....
I would not powerstruggle the tattoo..but include this in your legal issues...it should require in this case consent of both parents...

pray..
seek support
pray some more....

stay even keeled and steady....

she is going to escalate use all of it to YOUR advantage....

ARK

double la de da

<small>[ January 15, 2005, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

In order to collect a bit of evidence in writing for the hearing...

Write a carefully written note for your WW and ask her to respond in writing. Make your tone neutral.

Dear WW

Son told me you have given him the OK to get a tattoo for his 15th birthday. I am not in favor of this tattoo at so young an age. Please write back and explain your reasons for allowing this, so we can come to an agreement.

Thanks,

Hubby

SEE if she won't put it in writing that she's OK with a tattoo.... and take it to court.

Pep

I have a recorder on the phone here, and in her conversation with the kids before they left last night, DS asked her if OM was going to be there, her initial response was "why are you asking me with daddy standing right there?" DS told her I was not around, and then she told them, she also told him "you guys have to keep your mouths shut, or you will get me into trouble"

I will try to get her to admit the tattoo permission, I already have the fact that in her care he was watching porno videos (she didn't know about it, but the supervision was not there) and she has let him purchase R rated & Unrated T & A movies. I have taken them from him.

Since OM & his kids are living with WW, do I need additional evidence of the A?

Talk to an attorney.

Have you visited any of the web sites that offer support for father's rights?

If not, do a google search .... there are several such sites with discussion boards and practical suggestions for how fathers can obtain primary custody .... especially in cases like yours.

I used to know the site, but it's been too long, and I've forgotten. But, they are not hard to find on a google.

Pep

Hosea...

Peps right...

the need for you to seek out other fathers and men that have been where you are at...and the wealth of knowledge thru their experiences is invaluable to you...

you need them...
they will help you...

ARK

OK, next question:

I know this may sound deceptive but here goes.

WW does not know that I am aware of OM being with them last night, should I send her an email thanking her for honoring my wishes regarding spending time with our kids without him? I'm kind of hoping that this will bug her conscience because she will know that it was a lie, but it will show her that I was willing to trust her, and she will know she cannot be trusted.

Or is doing that just feeding her fog, and emboldening her to continue to lie to me?

Don't feed the fog and don't relinquish your sources (phone line, etc.).... find a way to serve that info in court in additiont to e-mails. You have to prove some not all, enough to discredit her to the judge. Porno in the presence of children, telling the children to lie, etc..... makes for an unfit picture of a mother.

Let the courts know that your children knows what she is doing is wrong. Reassure your chlidren of your love for them and in other things bring up the importance of honesty. It will bug their conscience so keep tabs on how they are doing. Encourage them to talk their feelings out (to you, IC, good friend, teacher or counselor in school). Make sure it is a reliable source.

Your W is making a big mistake, you have to let her put her full head in that noose before you expose it to the judge. There s/b no doubt that she is not a good mother at this point.

It is harder for fathers to prove but work on being calm and factual. Use the tapes to support you other info.

ex:

BS: Your honor, my wife has told her children to lie for her so she can bring them around OM. OM is ____, _____, _____, etc. I love my children and am now afraid of what they may have or may be exposed to. Concerns such as drug abuse, pornography and other types of bad association are now a real concerns that my children are being exposed to such things while in the care of my W.

Your Honor, I tried to have trust in my W. She used to be a good mom. Her current choices now bring our family in danger. Please help me keep my children in a safer place. I am asking for: ________________.

Somthing like that. If the judge asks how you know this, mention that your children have told you some of it and information has been brought to your attention by anonomyus sources.

L.

Document, document, document. EVERYTHING!! Take this from a guy who got physical custody of my kids when we went to court.

As a guy, you start in the hole. You must prove that she is not doing things in the best interest of the children...and you are. You must document everything, daily. She will have nothing when you go to court. You will have all of the evidence in the world.

This deal with her telling the kids to keep quiet because she will get in trouble is VERY damning!! Write it down in your A journal, which you will use in court. That judge will not like it when he hears that your WW KNEW what she was doing was wrong, and asked the kids to hide it. That is huge.

Your jounral should have everything she says and does, as well as what you do daily for the kids.

Many times it is your word against hers. Well, if she walks in with just her word, and you walk in with the journal of daily activity, as well as witnesses and other facts and evidence, you WILL get custody.

So, get with it.

Again, this does not mean that your marriage is over with. it actually was my wife losing custody that pushed the fog completely out and rought her completely back to the table.

But for now, as others have said here...your number one job is protecting and caring for those kids. Doing so is NOT an LB!!

In His arms.

Morterman, Ark, Pep, & Orchid:

THANK YOU SOOO MUCH for your advice & support.

Yesterday, WW called and wanted the kids to come over to her place for dinner. I explained that DD was going to a friend's for the night, & I made a beef stew for us, so she said OK, then tomorrow night. At that time I told her I was fine with her seeing the kids for dinner, but how was she going to ensure that OM would not be there? She said "don't be ridiculous", I told her I was serious about there being no contact with OM. she said what I was doing was illegal, I replied that I disagreed, and if she felt that way I suggest she get a judge to tell me I have to let my kids be around OM. she said she would do that, and the conversation ended.

DS got upset because he couldn't go to her house, I told him that it was not my decision that he not see his mom, it was her choice to either see her kids, or OM. It kills me to see DS continually rejected by her choosing OM over her kids.

Did I handle that right?

I hope so, I would hate to be part of the problem, instead of part of the solution.

You handled it great.

When is the court hearing??

In His arms.

What kind of state do you live in that a kid can get a tat at 15 (even with a parent's permission)????? What kind of mom allows that? Perhaps your ww needs a crowbar and a map so she can remove her head from her rear.

I LOVE tattoos, but hello?????? 15???

You are doing the EXACT right thing Hosea. She is bent right now, and since she's not thinking clearly regarding your babies it's your duty to protect them from her very warped view of the world.

Also, I'm sure you probably already have, but could you sit your kids down and tell them that secrets that they are asked to keep to decieve you are not good secrets. The only good secrets involve birthdays and Christmas and fun surprises. Those secrets are eventually told. Secrets that you have to keep forever in the dark need the light of the day to keep people from harm.

My mom had to tell my sister and I that regarding our bio-dad. It's stuck with me....so much so, that all my children know the difference between good and bad secrets, and feel free to tell me anything.

Hug your babies (even 15 yo's are babies, imo - my eldest just turned 15).

Oh, and document that she asked the kids to keep that from you. Judges don't like secrets like that either.

- Kimmy