First I would like to start off by thanking Orchid for all her help the past few weeks. You are truly an incredible person.

Update:

My WH and I have been having conversations the past couple of weeks about our current situation. For the first time since this whole nightmare has started we have been able to talk and actually feel like we have gotten somewhere. The two reasons I feel are responsible for this change: 1)my emotional state and finally starting to feel like I will be okay no matter the outcome. and 2)WH is having serious breaks in the fog and is not just hearing me but listening to me.

During these convos we have been able to identify pre-A issues in our marriage and have started to work to correct them. We have also identified the point in our marriage and what was going on in our lives that we both agree was the beginning of the environment that led to WH affair. WH has also read "After the Affair".

It was at this point he started to come to me and tell me "things are starting to click for me", he also said alot of things I have said to him over the past 2 years are now making sense to him. In our last deep convo last week WH told me he has been waiting for me to fix this for him and now realizes he is the only one that can do that. So with that said I agreed that I cannot do it for him but if he was ready to re-commit to the M I would be there with him 100% with love, support and guidance. Basically this convo ended with me laying out my conditions and boundaries for either path our marriage may take.

Then a few days later out of the blue he tells me he will do whatever it takes to try to make this work. Will give 110% and will met all my conditions. In his heart he feels as if it is not going to work but loves me and believes in me enough to committ to our marriage and give it everything we got.

So I started to write down what I need from him as he requested. Didnt write down everything because I am still afraid of overload on WHs part. I did tell him he also needs to communicate to me what he feels I need to start to feel safe and secure again, he agreed.

One condition he already has met and I didnt even list this yet because I thought there was still to much fog. He has take full responsibility for his actions over the past 2-2 1/2 years. He said his judgement and views have been severely clouded and doesnt what me to shoulder any of the blame for his A. Wow I didnt expect that. Then he shows up at my home on Sat. morning upset. He totally ended it with OW2 Friday nite. He knew that was first and foremost but I didnt expect him to do it so fast. This is where I need help. All along he has down played his relationship with OW2 to me although I knew differently. So I was obviously upset on Saturday that he was so upset about ending it with her. I know this is normal but it still threw me. That nite he finally admitted to me that he loved her and this hurt real bad. But he also said he knew it was going to be this way because of the material he has read that I had given him. He also said he doesnt know what love is suppose to feel like right now anyway.

So my questions are related to withdraw as me and WH develop together our plan for recovery. Also I dont think I want him to move back home full time right now but I have some questions about that also. So I guess I am asking for any and all suggestions, thoughts and advice here. I so much want to make this work, I have been trying to get WH to this point for 2 years. I so much want him to someday thank me for believing in our M when he didnt.

Sorry so long.


L

<small>[ February 13, 2005, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Lisa0705 ]</small>

Oh Lisa -good news -I understand what you are going through -I myself had a break thru this wkend and am full of questions. I am afraid of a false recovery myself. I will follow your post for answers from others smarter than I -hope and pray for you. My Wh is calling me more and telling me he loves me. Has yours said he loves you? Is he willing to do the NC letter? I wish you the best.

Realtor,

Thank you for the response and prays..I wish the same for you. I have talked to my WH about the NC letter, he feels like the way he ended is sufficient. I guess only time will tell. I also have so many questions. For example like when he calls me up from the road and says talk to me..I know that means I want to call OW. How do I talk him thru that? My biggest fear right now is he wont make it thru the changes we need to make on a whole. Entire business needs to be changed and we must find time to spend together. He said he just wants to feel normal again. One positive is we are pretty much agreeing on what has to be changed in our life. But it is going to take time and I hope he can hold out


L

Lisa,

Good to hear from you. Glad to hear of the progress. You made me smile today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> This is a big accomplishment since son is home sick with the flu & 102 temp last night. I feel like a lump of coal (kinda run down feeling and crampy - or was that grumpy - LOL!!).

Know that good and bad news will still come out. You need to make sure you provide a safe environment for him to have so he can talk with you. Take a look at Bob Pure's thread. He is dealing with a similar issue.

take care,
L.

Orchid,

How are you and your son today...hope you are feeling better.

I am really scared..feel like we are at a stand still right now because so much has to change in our lives. I am looking for full time work and once I get that I feel the other changes that need to take place will be able to happen.

Right now I really dont know what to do or how to be around him. I am just trying to keep a calm household.

WH told me the other night how incredibly special I made him feel when we first met. He said it was like "wow no one ever in my life ever made me feel that way before." But he then said when that started to fade, he just figured our marriage was over. I guess this should be a big hint for me..sorta like going back to the beginning.


L

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Lisa,

Go get the book Giver/Taker by Dr W. Harley. I just loaned my copy out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Your H said something key when he said you made him feel WOW special.... now the question is what did he do to make you feel the same. Ask him.

See maybe both you and he have given him the expectation that you were the only person giving WOWs....making others feel special. Mine thought that was my privilege and he could just keep taking.

Well that stopped. Recovery requires that both meet each other's needs.

Take a look at that book along with HnHn.

BTW, we are feeling better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


L.

Orchid,

Thank you..yes I need to read both of those books. Its crazy, sometimes because of the events of the past 2 years, I have such a hard remembering our first 6 years together. That scares me. I know one of our problems is lack of time alone together. Right now and for a long time it has been non-exsistent.

Well today I asked WH if there has been contact with OW2 and he said yes:

WH:She kept calling me and I talked to her a few times very briefly.

ME:You know we are back at square one.
WH: No we are not. L I am agitated by the fact you have already moved on to step 2.

ME:What is step 2.
WH: You are walking around like everything is hunky-dory.
ME: I am not. I know you have to deal with your feelings about her and your withdrawl. I have given you your space. Would you rather me be cold and distant..just tell me what you need from me.
WH:No I dont want to be that way..I cant stand that.
ME:I thought we agreed you were going to tell me immediately if there was contact. Why didnt you?
WH: I was going to but its been a little crazy at home the past couple of days.
ME:Well I would have wished you told me like we agreed.
WH:NO RESPONSE

Yeah the fog is rolling back in. Knew it would.

So my question to all of you is how do I act right now. I feel no matter how I act WH will be agitated by it. Help


L

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Lisa,

Can you call me? Ok, times like this is when I would whip out plan B. He knows the rules. The tolerance level gets less and less each time I had to whip it out. So measure how much cushion you plan to give before you whip it out.

JMHO,
L.

Orchid,

I will call you in the next few days...I am trying to gather my thoughts.

They talked again last nite and today. WH was very nasty to me today when I questioned him. (that could be my fault..dont think I approached it right.) Anyway I am thinking Plan B. He knows what it is about and gets very angry at it and tells me I am behaving like a child.

Today he told me he cant stand how I am and to be my own person. He also said to stop looking for a job and just attached yourself to my side 24 hours a day. Anyway overall he was just very nasty and sarcastic to me today.


Right now he is working and I have no plansor desire to call him and he is not staying here tonight.

Talk to u soon
Thanks


L

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Well I really dont know what this post is going to be about. I guess I will just vent and maybe some questions will be thrown in there also. Need advice and support because I am starting to lose my emotional stability again and when I do its just awful.

NC has been broken already..WH says he has not seen her. He has been her the past 2days so I know he hasnt the past 2 days. Dont even know how to approach this subject anymore..the other day he was just so nasty and sarcastic with me. Right back to making me feel like I have no right or reason to question him. DORK! (Hope FIM doesnt mind). My step-kids were here this weekend so I havent asked anything..havent talked about anything.

Last Saturday nite when he was so upset about ending it with OW, he said a few things to me that have been bothering me all week. I really d ont know how to take them. Here there are, maybe someone can help me.

1.Wish I was a d!ck, wish I didnt care so much about you.

2.It doesnt matter what I want or how I feel, its all about you and the kids. I made this life now I have to live it.

Okay, to me these sound like someone who is trying desperately to tell me he wants out, but doesnt have the b@lls. Told him many times he can be free. Doesnt like it when I say it though because he thinks I am just saying it because I think thats what he wants to hear. He basically has told me he wants me to say okay we gave it a shot it didnt work so life goes on. Well I dont think I will ever be able to say that or feel that. Thats what he wants from me. Is he just trying to ease his guilt..I dont know.

As you can see in my first post here he said he would do whatever it took to work on this marriage. I have set boundaries and am telling him what I need from him. The big problem I see with trying to develop a plan for recovery is that I dont think he wants to rebuild of save our marriage. I know the feelings of withdrawl are normal and the feelings of this is never going to work are normal also. But I truly think he needs to want to save this and he is not there totally yet. Yes there are times when I see it in his eyes and hear itin his voice but that is usually only when I detach and pull away and dont call him for a couple of days or dont see him for a couple of days. Maybe he is prime for Plan B.

Okay sorry this is all over the place..hopefully you guys will respond to me..I need help.


Thanks

L

Lisa,

He wants to put his guilt on you. You know better than to take it.

I am still doing some work, so I will post back in a while.

L.

Lisa,

Like we talked about before, it is the WS who takes him/herself out there. It is themselves they have to bring back.

Other than a good plan A, the BS is not required to do much in the repair way of the M. When the WS sheds their skin and the Xws appears, it is a new feeling for him/her. The BS has to let the Xws get his footing. Often it feels safer to resort back to the WS especially if they have been at it for a while.

Expect the Xws to revert back to parts of his WS self. The BS during this time wants to see a full recovery but often that is not possible. The rate of recovery is dependent on the WS. The BS can't shoulder that piece.

So you feel you have hit a wall. You probably have. You want sooo much to get over this inbetween stage and you want to have something to hold onto but your tolerance level is very low. Should your tolerance level be low? Yes.

Where does it put the Xws? Could put him in hot water. During the time my H was in the Xws role, there were several false recoveries. One of them landed him in jail and he got to spend that week at the OWs house. Wow, they finally got to play house and you know what? It sure wasn't fun.

Now that brings relief to me. What, to see my H in misery? Of course not. But to see a WS/Xws in misery, was comforting. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> One's persons misery is another's pleasure. Except this time, the A got the misery. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

You can decide to enact plan B but you'd better be prepared for all the consquences. That is why I encourage the BS to be prepared financially, emotionally and mentally during the time they are in plan A because you never know when you may have to whip out that plan B.

One way I let my Xws know I was not happy with his progress was I would tell him I did not feel safe.

He couldn't get too angry at those words, though he tried. The WS manual didn't prepare him to overcome that obstacle. LOL!!!! I used that to my advantage. It worked.

So my suggestion is to either go around the wall or up over it. Maybe the wall isn't there and it is just a facade?!?!?!? More like brick wallpaper? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Orchid,

Thanks for the reply. We still havent had anytime to talk the past couple of days.

Yesterday, Feb 14, was our wedding anniversary and our 2 year D-Day. Neither of us really said anything about the day. But we were both visably disturbed by the day.

We did talk a little on the phone last nite about the day.

ME: WH I didnt want you to think I was avoiding you today...its just been a bad day.

WH:I know..didnt think that at all..its been bad for me also. Hope you dont think I was being an a-hole to you today. Really dont know how to be toward you on this day. Yes its the day we got married but I feel saying Happy Anniversary and Happy V-Day to you would be like a slap in the face to you, so I didnt say anything.

ME:I understand

WH:I will always remember the day we got married and how I felt..but I will always hate myself for Feb 14-2 years ago. I will never get that out of my head. L. if we make this work we are going to have to change our anniversary date. I dont want them together.

ME:Please dont hate yourself that is not helping anyone.

WH:Well thats on me right now isnt it. I really wanted to do something with you today but....

ME:I know, me too, but...

ME:We will do something this weekend alone. No kids.

WH:Okay

ME:Maybe we can start making new good memories for this day.

WH:Easier said than done.

Orchid, What do you think about this littler convo. He seems to be popping in and out of fog. I needed to get past this day..now I can get back to the issue of NC with him. What do you think?

Thanks


L.

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Lisa,

Sorry for the late response. Got several projects going on right now and a plumber is suppose to be here at any minute. YIKES!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think the convo went well. Maybe next time, ask him for ideas and even if he says he doesn't know he will know you asked him and that may start him thinking.

IMHO the more the Xws start using their mind, it will help their heart heal. Later when you ask them to help you, they can because they have gained confidence by their being able to let their heart heal.

JMHO,
L.