</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spider Slayer:
<strong>Maybe that somewhere needs to start as friends for you two.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmm. I get what you are saying, but if a friend ever betrayed my love, trust and my family unit the way she has, that person would no longer be my friend. I'm picky that way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Now a Wife, the Mother of my Child, the Love of my Life... now, there's a person I'm willing to go to hell and back for.

I don't understand the 'friends' thing. Dylan says that too. Maybe it's because anytime in my life a girl has said she's wanted to be 'friends' with me, it's because she's dumping me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I hope you had a GREAT time playing video games with your boy. THAT is what is really important ~ making memories together, IMO.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, you wouldn't be saying that if you knew what game we were playing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Good memories were made on the ski hill this morning though... me, my dad and my son, tearing up the slopes!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyway, break time is over... time to cook.

John

<small>[ February 20, 2005, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't understand the 'friends' thing. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, when my H was foggy, I didn't understand it, either. BUT, when it came down to 1)not having him in my life at all, or 2)having him in my life as a friend only, I realized that I loved him, and I would take him any way I could. Because, in my heart, he would always be my H, he would ALWAYS be the father of my kids.

And when we first came back together again, it was as friends, it was as life partners, it was as a team. The romance, M, came later.

But, every sitch is different.

That is great that you went skiing today with the 3 generations of "dewt" men! I bet you three made a dashing appearance on the mountain!

Hang in there.

Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spider Slayer:
<strong> You know, when my H was foggy, I didn't understand it, either. BUT, when it came down to 1)not having him in my life at all, or 2)having him in my life as a friend only, I realized that I loved him, and I would take him any way I could. Because, in my heart, he would always be my H, he would ALWAYS be the father of my kids.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, I didn't really understand this...

I mean, faced with the same choice, I would obviously choose to have Dylan in my life too. HOWEVER, if she only wants to be friends, well, then she should let me know because I would like to have a shot at happiness in this life. Not that anyone is EVER gonna find me as trusting and unguarded...

When I was dating this other girl, (back in Sept) I found that I really liked having someone find me desireable. Not just in the physical sense, but in every sense. She always wanted to be close to me, intimate... in fact she'd get frustrated because I didn't see her that often. That kind of made me feel special, and cared for, and desired. The exact OPPOSITE of the kind of rejection I'm getting from Dylan.

I'd really like something like that in my life. It encourages me. It boosts my self worth. It helps me see a brighter futur. It's a place of refuge after the world has kicked the sh:t out of me all day.

It's not the kind of thing you get from a friend, or I would have called my buddy JL to get me through this mess last year.

Please understand... I LOVE Dylan. If it came down to it, I'd probably lay my life on the line for her. But right now, it seems like I'm facing a lifetime of rejection and loneliness. And to me, that's worse than death.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spider Slayer:
<strong>And when we first came back together again, it was as friends, it was as life partners, it was as a team. The romance, M, came later.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When you first came together again? Explain this please... did you decide to give it another try, but go slow? Did you move back intogether? Was your H repentant of his betrayal and willing to make amends, or did he consitently blame you for everything? In other words, what was the intent... the plan?

I don't see that Dylan and I have big problems with the 'friendship' aspect of our relationship. We get along very well, hang out together easily... the long silences are never uncomfortable... and as a parenting team, we are doing ok.

But the life parteners, the marriage... what's happening with that? Dunno... but day in day out, week in week out, month in month out, I see no progress. I see stagnation. I live in a state of constant rejection and loneliness, and I don't see how this relationship can grow without some intent/purpose/plan behind it.

See, I'm not just struggling with the betrayal of her affair. (although the fact that my W chose OP over me is a blow to my self-worth I'll probably never get over) I'm struggling with the same issues that I've been facing for many years before the affair. % years ago, I had an affair. I did it because the OP found me attractive and desirable and that was so powerful a force that my morals went straight out the window. Now I've learned much since then, and grown, and I would never cheat again, but the same issues are still there, only now they are even worse.

And I'm asking myself if I'm an idiot for hoping they will change. I'm pretty damn sure that if things continue the way they are, things will NOT change for the better... only for the worse. It seems like it's a viscious circle and I don't have the strength to break it on my own. And Dylan doesn't seem to want to break it.

And like I said, I'm starting to think that I'm an idiot. I have a history of giving my all for someone and having them disregard me. What in the world is possessing me to thing that this is going to be any different? Why am I such a sucker for betrayal and pain? Why can't I just accept the TRUTH and make some decisions based on THAT rather than cling to some ideal of true love and family and marital commitment? Seriously, these are wonderful concepts but it's a two-player game, and it's hard enough when you have both partners committed. What chance does a psychologically damaged idiot have of doing it on his own? Especially when the current scenario seems tailor made to exascerbate the issues that I've been carrying all my life?

Anyway, for now I'm hanging in there. But the end of the rope is getting kind of tight around my neck. I'm not ready to give up yet. As idiotic as these ideals of mine are, they are still mine and I dread the thought of losing them. I just don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't know how much more of this I can take. It seems like such a no-win situation and I'm very much despairing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>That is great that you went skiing today with the 3 generations of "dewt" men! I bet you three made a dashing appearance on the mountain!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My dad was dashing. Me and the boy were mostly crashing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Yeah, that was a great time.

Thanks for posting. I didn't mean for this thread to turn into such a discussion, but since the cat is out of the bag, any ideas or new approaches to the situation would be appreciated. Not that any new approaches or ideas are going to make a shred of difference, but the sympathy and encouragement are nice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

dewt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What chance does a psychologically damaged idiot have of doing it on his own? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good thing you're not alone here at MB! Even though I shouldn't encourage you to put yourself down, your choice of wording DID crack me up. I think everyone considers themselves a "psychologically damaged idiot" sometimes.

Well, ncwalker had questions about my post to you as well, and I answered (to the best of my ability, and based on what I thought the questions WERE), over on a thread to me (Spider Slayer) from him (ncwalker).

I think he and you might both have had the same questions, so go check it out and see if I totally missed the mark. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Spidey

If the person who was signed into the account used Messenger, then you can open the messenger (accessed throught the start menu, usually does not require password) and click "You have x new emails" which will automatically open hotmail on the computer. Just be sure that you don't have explorer open when you do it.

C

Hey Slayer,

Yep, I did catch your reply and it did clear up my questions. Thanks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I refer to myself as a 'psychologically damaged idiot' very seriously. Ok, well I did crack a grin as I typed it...

The reason I use that term is because my childhood and early adolescence is marked by abandonment and loneliness issues. It was only after puberty that I found an analgesic for that pain. That would be intimacy. Someone wanting to be intimate with me gives me immediate and profound reversal of the feelings of worthlessness and loneliness that seem to have been such themes in my life.

When someone wants to be intimate with me, they are telling me that they care about me. That they accept me as I am and want more of me. That they find me attractive and want to give me pleasure. That they trust me to bring them pleasure.

These things are REALLY important to me. Healthy or no, they are significant emotional needs and not having those needs met is putting me at a VERY serious disadvantage. It has been for some time.

The idiot part of that phrase is a reference to the fact that I'm still holding on to someone who has consistently made it plain that she does not desire that intimacy with me. She has not for many many years and yet I'm still holding on. Hoping. Someone's sig line keeps reminding me that insanity is doing the same things and expecting different results. Maybe I'm insane, not an idiot. Hmmmm, bah, it's all semantics.

I'm just wondering if I'm wasting my time, her time and setting my kids up for a bigger fall at some point down the road.

As for MB, well, uh... there a few who still bother to post, but mostly I think people have given up on me (because of my well-earned status as an idiot). But yes, I am grateful that I have a place to come and vent and think things through with the written word. And I am soooooo very grateful for the folk who take the time to read and reply. I sometimes wonder though if it isn't better to keep sweeping things under the rug. Truth be told, I do much better when I'm not thinking about this.

dewt

Hey C_A, thanks for your reply. I'm pretty sure that messenger wasn't used. I spoke with my W about this and believe her when she says there are no secret accounts.

dewt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The reason I use that term is because my childhood and early adolescence is marked by abandonment and loneliness issues. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I had these same issues as the theme for my childhood as well! Seems we are kindred in a way. And, through my teenage years, I was um, er, what is the PC way to say this? Oh yes, promiscuous. I never did trust a man, as every single one in my life had left me, until I met my H when I was 16.

I have to say, that when HE left me for the OW/FBF, I was crushed. He had PROMISED me he would never leave me like everyone else had. BUT, he did. He lost his way, and I got hurt in the process. That is the way I choose to look at it.

I did read your introduction on the "other" board a few months ago, before your brother passed (so very sorry about that). So I am somewhat familiar with your story, although it is quite involved. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

So, Dylan is living with you, as friends only, for the sake of your child. Is that the short version? She has her life on the side (with or without OM? Do you know?), and you continue to pine after the relationship YOU want with her? But she has made clear for several years that she DOESN'T want with you?

I'm not being flippant, I am literally just trying to get a good picture for where you are at. I'll post to you till the cows come home, or you figure out what you want. That's what I do here! You can bounce the same thoughts off me day after day. I'm tough.

But ultimately, of course, all of these are YOUR decisions, with questions that only YOU truly have the answers to.

Are you a hopeless romantic, or are you beating a dead horse? You are not the first, nor the last, to feel "stuck" in that gray area. I DO know that it is OK to hang out in that area for a while, until you feel sure one way or the other. And just because it doesn't "feel good" to be there, doesn't necessarily mean it is a "bad place" to be.

It is in the dark valleys of our lives that we grow, and also the contrast we need to fully realize and appreciate the peaks of our lives.

Spidey

Hello Dewt,
So Sorry to hear about your brother's death. Sos sorry to be reading that there is not much progress toward any type of recovery between you & Dylan. I,ve written to you in the past, and know your story a little bit.
So why continue to be a 'sucker for betrayal & pain'? If you know the 'truth', why are you not facing it and accepting it. Why are you not able to make your personal life-decisions based on the truth whatever it may be? Your life and happiness are in your hands and I think, like most of us on this earth, you need to continue to make decisions based on the realities which you face.. Most decisions toward living, happiness, healing, redemption and survival involve some measure of sacrifice on a personal level, internally or externally. What will it take for you to move towards living a happy & fulfilling life. Consider the things you do have control over and work on them. Consider what you will do regarding the things you do not have control over; will you continue to waste your time and energy on them? What will it take for you to consider your own health, physical & emotional, your well-being and to make the types of decisions that allow for healing instead of destruction?

I continue to pray for you and your own personal recovery.

Peace,
Odyssey

Odessy,

These are questions I ask myself every day, all day.

The thing is I really don't know what's 'truth' anymore. I am so far in over my head it's not even funny.

dewt

This thread has gotten kind of de-railed.

I'm going to start another one here .

dewt

Sorry dewt and others -just wanted to thank everyone I have sofpal downloaded and finally working. I am getting smarter by the day.

yikes...

his name is xxxxx xxxx
the same name as on the hotmail account...

he is the guy that "comes along for the ride"...
and has, on most occaisions....

the friends who drive up here to offer transportation are few and far between, and this is the guy that tags along and keeps them company and is on call for emergencies....

and when my ride arrived, I was still downstairs, at work....and was not ready....

he spent time at the computer to check his e-mail...

then we left....

as I felt there was nothing to hide, I changed nothing on the computer....

it never ocurred to me that Dewt would not recognize his full name....

I have not read the rest of this thread yet....I thought I'd best address the immediate issue at hand....

just FYI....when xxxxxx arrived, I was informed that OP was 6 hours away, helping relatives move and would not be back for another week, in the least....

I am so sorry for all this trauma....

As I said, I left everything open because I had nothing to hide....

and I didn't mention xxxxx coming because you can never be sure until the knock on the door, who it is that has accompanied my driving friend....the 3-4 ladies that can drive are all new mothers in the pst 2 years, are not accustomed to a 4-5 hour journey and are nervous drivers to begin with...they will not make the trip unless they are accompanied by a driving buddy...

heck, because of the traffic and weather involved, I can never be sure of what time my arrival and departures are at....

I'll go read now...

Dylan

okaaaaaaay....

I have cut and pasted, and am going over to the other thread....

I will cut and paste some more and formulate a response....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by soulloss:
<strong>
I am so sorry for all this trauma....
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, trauma would have been finding out that there was a secret email. The way I see it, you really have nothing to apologize for.

If anyone got a little freaky, it was me... (which I have a tendency to do when you go back there) so don't worry about it.

I'm actually pretty happy that I didn't jump to conclusions.

John

oops...

John