Through all the lies and deception along with knowing that your spouse loved someone else, can the marriage ever be something that you can cherish? Knowing that your spouse shared things with someone else that was only meant to be shared between the two of you, can that be something that you can ever get over? I keep hearing how time heals all wounds or how people's marriages ended up better than it was before an affair, but I really can't see that happening. Knowing that my wife loved another man, shared her inner most thoughts with him, shared her body with him, put him on a pedestal above me is something that I don't think I could ever get over with. While she now states that she realizes that she really didn't love him, but rather what he gave her, the attention, the listening ear, the understanding, not to mention the good sex, it still doesn't take away from the fact that she gave her body and soul to someone other than myself. Does time really heal that wound? And even after you have reconcilled and begin to really meet each other's needs, does a marriage really get better than before, knowing that your spouse gave everything they had to someone other than yourself, how does it happen?

Hi FA,<BR>Yes it can be much better after an affair and lots of us do get over the hurt pain and devastation....<BR>One does have to change ones picture of how things should be according to how one believes they should be...you will have to get over your hurt pride and ego first and self esteem takes a knock that can also affect confidence and self assurance and it takes some deep down work within to reach oneself and pull oneself up...support and help from others such as people in this forum, counselling and therapy make a big difference in this process...and forgiveness does eventually come if one is willing to go thru what it takes to get down to your deep down core beliefs and see them for what they are and change what needs to be changed....when acceptance and peace finally arrive much wisdom strength and a deep understanding love and care for self and others are the rewards of such work...and the marriage if still intact can become a wonderful experience...<BR>Have hope and take heart there are many of us here that feel for you and send energy for you to gain strength understanding and love...<P>cossie<P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P>

Cossie---------<BR>Very Very nicely put! Those would be my words exactly. <P>F A---------<BR>Have compassion for your wife, a mistake has happened. Think of how you would like her to be to you, if you had a Bad Brain Period. It is worth making a new life, a new marriage. She is with you, that says it all right now. <P>-----------<BR>TIME

Hi F A:<P>I feel pretty much the same way as you right now. I have been wondering the same things that you have stated. I don't think it can ever be the same! I am striving for that, but it just is not happening.<P>I find it so hard to accept that he did all these things for another woman and professed his undying love for her every day of their 13 month affair. Their affair was very emotionally and sexually charged. He was confiding in her things that should have been just between the two of us, personal issues with him and family issues with me. It kills me too to know that I offered him my suggestions, but he took her advice and not mine. Now, because he was caught, he is saying she didn't mean anything to him. I know I am still very hurt and angry with this whole mess. Maybe MORE time???? I don't know how much longer I can wait to 'see' if things do get better. <P>I am sorry I don't have any answers for you. I am coming up on a year since discovery and time has not been too helpful for me. <P>I just wanted to let you know, I do feel the same way!<BR>Lisa

time does not heal all wounds.<BR>time plus work or time plus God or time plus something else. i have a hard time believing it will ever be better, i'm just hoping for liveable. i am content right now with a comfortable friendship and working realationship with my husband, and we shall see what time brings...as we work at rebuilding.<BR>thanks for writing it helps to hear what other survivors think.

No, I do not believe it'll ever be the same....and this may be the hardest thing to overcome.<BR>Our marriage is better, one year post discovery, we spend more time together, he tells me he loves me, but that aura around us, that connection, that team feeling is gone. And I think to get it back, I have to trust my heart and soul to him again, and I just cannot do that. And time will not change my reluctance to give him my heart again. <BR>Early on, I asked him if he could live without my trust, and he said yes. It was a question posed to the wrong party, I should have asked myself, can I live without ever trusting him again? This is what I struggle with.<BR>My grandmother once told me, if someone disregards you, your feelings, your dreams, your "self" do not cast the stone back, do not try to get even, merely walk away. People who will hurt you once, will hurt you again. Do not put up with this kind of treatment. But do so without malice. <BR>I wonder now if I should just take her advise.<BR>It'll never be the same, it may be better, it may be worse, and only time will tell.

F A,<P>Hope you dont mind my posting here again but I was thinking about you when I was answering someone who wrote to me direct and thought that some of what I was saying to him might help you so here is an extract of what I wrote... hope it helps..<P>"<BR>As far as the libido thing goes...in any primary relationship (marriage) the passion, excitment, newness of discovery, romance, raging libidos, lustful thoughts and action, (present in an affair)in a marriage DULL with time, all those things become common and boring at times because of commitment, responsibility of kids, home, work, managing finances etc.... the drugery of sameness and familiarity changes the marriage relationship and if communication between the partners is not kept up, many things including the sex side can suffer greatly as the gap of communication widens to where neither knows how to correct what they sense is not right in the marriage...however the vibration of love that bought these two together in the first place remains and grows deeper with time and strangely enough sometimes because of the very same things that seem so boring....work, kids, responsibilities, sharing hardships as well as joys, acheivements etc...(one can get blinded to this and thinks they are missing out on life and start an affair)...<P>In contrast an affair which is new has all those electrically charged ingredients in it, but added to this affair are some ingredients not possible in the marriage scene that makes the affair seem more passionate and exciting and can make one think that the marriage is not as good as the affair and that perhaps the woman/man in the affair is more compatibly ones soul mate or would make a better marriage partner....in this state one is often considered to be in Disneyland...<P>The extra ingredients in an affair not possible in marriage are....<P>1. The furtiveness, having to hide the affair... this has an excitement about it that is very erotic to both partners...and can bring them seemingly closer together, sharing a secret no one else knows about...partners in crime so to speak...has a daring about it that is exciting....<P>2. Lack of responsibility.... there are no kids to worry about...no socks and jocks to wash, lawns to mow etc...no financial burdens to share...no personal bad habits unfavourable traits or idiosyncrasies to put up with or worry about...no having to look after one another...no sharing of negativity as each is showing the other their best side only at this stage (whilst it remains an affair), so each is looking at the other thru rose coloured glasses so to speak...<P>3. Lack of commitment...because of this, both in the affair feel a freedom that one cannot feel in a marriage and this feeling can cause confusion in both parties sometimes making them jump to the conclusion that they are not happy in their marriage and would be better off out of the marriage and taking up with the new partner....<P>As you can see these ingredients all go to make the two relationships very different indeed and its no wonder we get confused...<P>The problem is that if the adulterer gives away the marriage partner for the lover...the moment they commit to the lover their situation changes to one of responsibility and committment and all the negative things that they thought they had in the marriage along with all the things that go with responsibility and more (this new relationship will have things not yet discovered that they may not like very much) will transfer to the new relationship....and does not really solve the problem just adds to it...and most of the time one has to work so much harder to make it work....<P>The problem with most marriages is lack of communication...no problems can be worked out between any parties unless the opposite party knows there is a problem to begin with....mostly we are all afraid to communicate with our spouses because of the many fears we all have.....fear of losing them...fear of being hurt ...fear of rejection...fear of losing their love...fear of not getting their approval etc....and it takes some courage to overcome these by biting the bullet and starting somewhere to dig deep within and see how we think, what we feel, what we believe, and make appropriate changes...can be difficult and painful but always worth the effort...sharing a deep love without fear is beautiful and rewarding at a very deep level...one just has to go thru a few bumps to get there....<P>Hope this helps a little..and you can make your decisions however you feel is right for you....<BR>listen to your gut/heart/soul deep down and ask the universe? (this can be anything that has meaning for you) for guidance and help with the answers to intimate inner questions and feelings you may have....<BR>The answers will come and when they do be sure you listen real good and hear what you are listening to....and above all trust that which comes from your inner self...this is innate knowing...this is truth....this is the God within....<P>cossie <P><BR><P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P>

Cossie, you do answer the questions so well, except for one very small one that no one has approached really. Why would you ever want things to be the same again? Isn't that part of why you are where you are right now? You don't ever want to be back into the bad part of the relationship where they (betrayers) decide to go that road. You want to build a bridge over that road and avoid returning to that horrible place again. It's time to move on, be thankful that we are together, be thankful that we have the ability, (More so than any other generation) to work things out and grow from them. I wish everyone good luck, I know how hard this question is to deal with and still staul out on it every once in awhile. But then you pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<BR>

cossie<P>I thank you very much, I read your last post and will certainly take it to heart.

The answer from my persepctive (I am the OW and am married) is that nobody will ever be the same. However, everything can get better.<P>I spent hours on my knees begging God to bring me back to the person I was before this ever happened. He didn't. But he gave my husband the supernatural power to love me, trust me, forgive me, and most of all, to forget about it. When the OM's wife wanted to talk to my husband, he refused. When my H asked me if I ever told the OM that I loved him, I admitted that I did (we never had sex, purely emotional). He accepted that and asked me how long it would take for me to get over it. End of story. He has not looked back nor has he asked me one question about it. <P>We have a much stronger marriage now thanks to him. We are no longer making the same mistakes. We have a renewed love for each other.<P>I will admit though, and this may hurt some of you a little, that my emotional affair has left a real void and a real feeling of restlessness in me. I have to make an intentional choice almost everyday to run from evil and turn my back on temptation, lust, and a longing to do something else and be someplace else, and even be with somebody else. It is not easy once that door has been opened, but I have shut it, bolted it, and I know my husband (and God) are leaning against it so that it will never open again.<P>Please don't be so obsessed with what the mistakes your husbands made in the past or worry about what he said to her or how much he hasn't told you. Don't keep bringing it up. Chances are he is trying very hard to overcome a lot of crap. He has stayed with you because he loves you. Your constant questions only make it that much harder for him to forget.

Hi Chicks, <BR>You are so right with your comments we do need to move on..... and I did miss that one didnt I...my eyes and brain are not what they used to be.. <P>It is true that we can never go back to what or how things were...just not possible...but there are some good reasons why we would desire or yearn to...there are two sides here....no one wants to go back to pain and devastation...but one does want to go back to stability care and sharing of good times...and when one is hurting that is what they remember and the more that is remembered the more they become aware of what is percieved to be lost and what could be lost forever...yet the truth is that nothing is lost, you cannot lose something you've already had....<P>We all fear change to some degree sometimes so much so we will fight ferociously to keep the staus quo...protecting what we beleive is safe... the only 2 certain things in life are change and death...and both we cannot avoid no matter how hard we fight...and sometimes we are dragged fighting and kicking all the way into our changing future... <P>cossie<P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P>

No, they won't ever be the same. Thank God!<BR>They can however, like some of us discovered (thanks cossie, I agree with you ) be better, and that's what we want them to be, why would we want them to be the same?<P>Cossie wrote down most of what I think about it, so there's no need to repeat it.<BR>What I find more important in order to pass the lst hurdle is to get our perspective on the whole thing and put what happened where it belongs - the past - . WHen we do this, we open ourselves to all the other - better - possibilities.<BR>I'm not suggesting that we should forget the whole thing , we're supposed to learn from it. But it can't present in a way that it interferes with the whole process.<BR>Then, we should apply what we learned. I find it's a "forever"thing and should be done by both spouses: check emotional needs, try to fulfill them, keep communication open at all times, look for triggers ( stress, too much work, health problems ) and deal with them right away, connect with your spouse, do thngs together, create private time even if children are young - sometimes we focus on parenting so much we end up not having time together -, do unexpected nice things to each other, this kind of stuff( and I'm sure I miss many other things that are important ) . It should help not only to create a better relationship but to maintain it, which is what we want.<BR>Take care<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

Cossie, gee whiz, why don't you post more? Brilliant posts! And Chick's and Kat, I completely agree with you in that no, things will never be the same and thank God! The way things were is what got us to that terrible place. The way things are is what will keep us from ever going there again.<P>It is true that all of us who endure and triumph over infidelity will give up much. Things like innocence, naivete, blind trust in our spouse, and the ability to be lazy about our relationship are gone forever. But, if we do this right, we stand to gain so much in return. Personally, my H and I have gained the skills necessary for good, solid, effective communication, openness and honesty, intimacy, maturity, and now we know how to maitain a successful, healthy marriage. Before, we winged it and what a mess we made!<P>So, FA and others, I think with the passing of time and the continued effort to rebuild the right way, you will find that you gained so much more than you lost. <P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

My H and I have had a very short recovery so far (just 6 months) and the second honeymoon is over. We are both working hard to not fall back on our old ways. <P>My biggest problem is that my reputation has been damaged - though he was the "strayer". I still feel like those women know all my shortcomings. Why does this bother me? Who knows?

FA, Hope this post has helped you along the way....<P>Almost Happy, Thanks for the endorsement we all learn from our experiences and without being a betrayer (several times) and the betrayed also, I would never have had the experience or motivation to be able to help others in their suffering...<P>New Woman, Thank you for your kind words, I do post whenever I can get time to...and now that I am not travelling so much I may be able to post more...<P>NoraP,<BR>I have bought this up again because I wanted to comment on your post in the hope that those comments could help you to gain some insight into your real yet unecessary dilemma and hopefully give some peace....<P>"My biggest problem is that my reputation has been damaged - though he was the "strayer". I still feel like those women know all my shortcomings. Why does this bother me? Who knows?"<P>Consider..<BR>1. Your reputation damage is only in your mind not theirs..<P>2. Your shortcomings..? how would all those women know those if your H was the betrayer..?<P>3. You still feel like those women know of your shortcomings..? Does that mean you thought they knew of them before..? and have always held this view..? Can you see that all this is only in your mind and you are giving yourself a hard time for nothing..?<P>"Why does this bother me..?"<P> A good question....and the answer would probably go back a long way to when you told yourself that you were to blame for everything that went wrong around the place merely because you were present when it happened..??? <BR>If someone stole money from the piggy bank in the house you would probably feel guilty even if you knew you didnt do it..? (There are a few of us who would relate to this one...)<P>This is primarily a low self esteem problem borne from upbringing perceptions of the world around you..being told you are a bad girl, behave yourself, you are a good girl when you are good and a bad girl when not according to how Mom and Dad saw it...<BR>This is not Mom and Dads fault they do the best they can with what they know...<P>In your quest to not be told off to be free of blame, to be right, or to recieve strokes/acceptance (love affection favour goodies etc)you have had to be good....<P>To be accepted by others you have to be good/right/acceptable or seen to be good in your mind...<BR>The feeling is always I AM NOT GOOD ENOUGH AS I AM...I must be as others want me to be before I am good enough...!!! Can you see this..? Its so unfair on you...but take heart this can be changed you have the power to do it...you have always had the power to do it!!!!<P><BR>Start by repeating to yourself over and over day after day, week after week month after month if that is what it will take... that you are ok as you are....that you are good enough as you are...you have a right to be here just as you are...and that you are loved just as you are...and that you are worth loving just as you are...<P>Tell yourself that you love yourself over and over until you can look in the mirror and say it looking yourself in the eyes without squirming uncomfortably...<P>Put in the action the feelings will follow...actions trigger feelings just as feelings trigger actions...<P>After all of this you can start counting your blessings there are many of them...and begin to thank yourself for this life and all the nice things in your life...and thank your God whoever you percieve him/her to be for this opportunity for your learning and progress...and thank yourself for loving you...<P>Good luck you are worth every bit of the space you occupy on this planet, it is specially yours...<P>Many Blessings<P>cossie<BR><P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P>

I for one would never want it to be the same. I am much more vigilant and careful of my marriage now. Knowing that I can never take it for granted if I want it to continue.<P>Life together made me complacent and I worried about job, kids money before him I had little room in my life for God. But I woke up one day to find that my life was a total disaster and that the unthinkable had happened and I scrambled looking for others to blame. No blame was needed. We both did our parts.<P>Now we botth with the help of God are working to make our lives and marriage better than ever. Nothing can take away the scar of his affair, but it can become less noticable with time and love and work. All these are gifts from God. How fortunate we are!<P>God bless