I just read a little bit more of your backstory and I do remember your sitch. Dependency/interdependency, I read that thread with interest. My STBXW was just like that. We made the same amount of monwey but anything I made was for the families benefit (house, food, other stuuf) but money she made was hers.

Here's the deal. If she is breaking away and wanting to be free (much of this fed by her GF's who are telling her how great it is to be D, etc. Misery loves company.), then any attempt by you to show that you want her, need her, is going to be seen as you controlling her. Exactly what she is running from, your control.

I don't think you are controlling, but she does, that is the point. Give her all the freedom she wants, seriously, set her free. Because with her freedom comes responsibilities. You know how much fun it really is to go to work. You go because you have bills, not because you are htis altruistic soul. Not many like that, good man, good heart, family man. Being on you own, and alone, is not much fun. Her girlfriends will never be able to fill the void of you and the kids.

I really question plan A here, to break from the MB mold, because you need to ask yourself, are you competing with an OM or are you competing with a lifestyle? Plan A and B work when it comes to breaking OM addictions, but it sounds like you have a WW in a quasi MLC.

Bear,

You're not disagreeing with me as these are not my ideas. These are MB principles that were developed by Dr. Harley.

I know Plan A didn't work out for you but does that mean that you reject the entire PlanA/Plan B concept?

Rather than argue within Extropy's thread I propose that we start a new thread to discuss where we differ, if in fact we do.

Ken

<small>[ February 26, 2005, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: legato ]</small>

Extropy,

You've got mail.

Blessed,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Affectionately, Julie" with a kissy face here? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not a good idea IMHO. It can help WS justify their behavior - "you're doing exactly the same thing I'm doing! How dare you talk to me about my behavior!"

It's also game-playing and trickery.

Stay honest and lead by example. Keep the moral high-ground.

Hey, I don't necessarily disagree with the MB principles. It just seems to me that it is designed to be used in the case of an ongoing A, an addiction to an OP. Well, I am just asking the question, what if the addiction is not to an OP, but to a lifestyle?

I am just trying to help EX out, his sitch is alot like mine, he asks the same questions I asked. Dealt with the same things.

A WW who wants to run, if she wants to move out, you can't stop her. Just don't let the kids leave, plan A all you can, then be re3ady to go plan B. That is all, I got to go, I'll follow up later.

legato...I sent the email before reading what you wrote...I asked him to meet for coffee to discuss 'respective challenges'

signed it Your friend, Julie

I did put the little smiley faces doing a kiss on the cheek kiss...I have the cutish animations from 'smiley central' that I couldn't resist.

Problem is, my email address is 'farmerjoe'...it is in my H's name...she may wonder who Julie is with that email address! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Justin, you can delete my note if you want.

Bear04, I wrote you a little on my thread about making WS THINK the BS might have a special friend.

Wow, fantastic dialog guys. Thanks.

I got home yesterday and she initiated talks. Said she MAY be interested in MC after she moves out. I told her that I support her efforts to find herself, but that our hard date of 3/15 isn't so hard. I told her that I didn't want her and the kids to be put in harms way by an artificial date.

Back to the topic at hand...
Bear04: I need to read your back story. I think she is VERY addicted to the lifestyle. I've only met one of these girls she goes out with, and she's going through a D right now. I'd imagine the attention she gets from guys while she is out is very exciting. She is VERY beautiful, and also insecure about her looks. Funny how that works.

She admitted to one EA with kissing and one PA that she's been involved with in the past 2 months. However she still sees nothing wrong with talking to them both b/c they are JF. I explained how that's like a knife twisting every time she talks to them, but she continues.

I have tried to invite myself along on these events so we can get some quality together time, but it was resoundly shot down. No need to beg, but at least I had to try and become a part of this new life of hers.

I live in Texas, and here the woman gets the kids 99.99% of the time. Unless she was actively shooting up heroine in front of the kids there is no way I'll get them. She knows that as well.

I think your idea of her on her own is a good one, but ultimately not viable. We already talked about me getting 1st/3rd/5th weekends too. I told her it may be best to get a job while she is living at home, then move out.


I get the feeling my A is getting through to her, as she was expecting an angry, bitter response to the situation. However she continues going out and most likely seeing one of the OM while there.

I suppose this may be another topic, but right now I wonder if I even want someone like this back. I suppose it's the ups and downs and right now I'm in a down.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Extropy:
<strong>

My wife and I went through this 2 years ago when both of her sisters got divorces. She got very unhappy and told me she was leaving and she didn't want to talk. I went straight to file for D the next day and told her I'd take the boys. That got her back to the table, though she said she still resents it. In hindsight it certainly wasn't the best thing to do, but I wasn't exactly rational. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it was absolutely the best thing to do, you stopped her from destroying your family. It was the most rational thing you could have done. Your children should never be allowed to be pawns of her destructive feelings de' jour. You did what a good man does, he protected his family. Too bad she resented you stopping her frm destroying your family on a whim.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Extropy:
[] Wow, fantastic dialog guys. Thanks.

I got home yesterday and she initiated talks. Said she MAY be interested in MC after she moves out. I told her that I support her efforts to find herself, but that our hard date of 3/15 isn't so hard. I told her that I didn't want her and the kids to be put in harms way by an artificial date.

[</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Extropy, I would caution you against any support of her efforts to "find herself." What she really wants to do is party on at the expense of her family. You should never support her in destroying your family, nor should you EVER EVER tell you support any such thing. Let her know that you will NOT support her and that you will not let her take the kids. Let her know that you will do everything in your power to protect them FROM HER.

I think she is very destructive and I would suggest that you do everything to protect your family. Such as contacting an attorney to get your children protected and your finances protected.

Can you imagine the life of hell your children will be doomed to if she is allowed to leave with them? They will be exposed to every scum bum she drags home from sleazy bars. Is that what you want your children exposed to?

You are the ONLY sane adult they have to protect them. You are ALL they have right now.

As their father, you must take absolutely every precaution to protect those kids. Texas judges DO NOT take kindly to mothers who whore around so I wouldn't just assume she has some kind of power in the courts. She doesn't.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Blessed TIME:
<strong>
Justin, you can delete my note if you want.

Bear04, I wrote you a little on my thread about making WS THINK the BS might have a special friend. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">huh? What are you doing? Why would you send him an email like that, Julie?

Justin, I just read your email reply. THANK YOU.

After reading above message, I was afraid I had done something very wrong to send it to you.

I laughed at your comment:
"Wonder if I should get some lipstick on my collar <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> "

The thing is, life is NOT a game and maybe trying to see if our mates CARE AT ALL if we might possibly have found another, is going too far.

I don't know..........

I know Carol did that and her marriage has been recovered for 3 years; several others on the thread I started about opinions on making WS THINK there could possible be another person to take their places.

Let me just say:
I DON'T KNOW NOTHIN ABOUT NOTHIN.
And I want you to only do what you think BEST in your situation.

Justin, I won't reply to your note as it would have YOUR message on the return reply.

If you ever want me to write you, I would be GLAD to.

Just write here EXACTLY what you would want me to say.

Very sincerely, Julie Jo (Farmer Joe's wife!~lol~) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well.. She read the note about a few hours ago and immediately confronted me with it.

She asked who Julie was, and if I was going out with her tonight. I replied that she's just a F from a BB I read to help me through this. She didn't like that answer, but after a few more questions it stopped there.

Afterwards she acted much more distant, which is either a good thing (considering what is happening) or a bad thing (realizing that it is over and is pulling back).

Right now my gut tells me I shouldn't have played this game. Just be true to myself and look after the kids' welfare and let what happens happen. I'll keep everyone abreast of what ends up.

Well, Justin, maybe it got her mind thinking a little....I sometimes get a aggravated how the WS think us BS are incapable of doing what they are doing! They think they have us around their little finger and we are sometimes taked for granted.

Does your wife use the computer for email?
Do you ever wonder if she has a secret account.

I give computer lessons and I could tell you how to find out; even how to see inside an account that you don't have a password for!

Sincerely, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Caution 2x4s coming:

This is wrong, wrong, wrong! As I stated before, why in the world do you want to give the impression that you have some side-action going on? This will only give her more justification for the party-lifestyle and extra-ciricular activities. This needs to stop now!

Do you want to restore your marriage or damage it even further?

Yes, you can bring a spouse back and intrigue them by deceiving them into thinking that someone else is interested in you but it provides no lasting or substantial improvement in the relationship; only a temporary band-aid. The issues will remain; nothing has changed. Any superficial improvement is based upon dishonesty.

Come on, high-school game-playing isn't going to solve anything!

Extropy - I re-read your post; yes, your gut tells you right in my opinion. And there is an honest way to achieve the same effect. No time to post right now. I'll try to post it here tomorrow.

<small>[ February 28, 2005, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: legato ]</small>