(Warning - may be a slight vent)

In initial stages of early recovery. WH seems to be making the right moves.

In anticipation of actually thinking that this time might actually work, I pick up _Torn Asunder_.

And am having a HUGE reaction against the suggestion that it's ALL my fault.

Quick note here: I totally get that I am responsible for my contributions to the environment in which the affair happened. Distant? Yup. Controlling? Yup. Sexually closed? Yup. Heck, I knew that even before he had the affair and thought we were trying to address it.

My issue is with the causal relationship that shows up time and again. The BS did not meet the WS's needs ergo the WS has an affair. When do we hear about "the WS does not meet the BS's needs and then blames the BS for not meeting his and ergo has an affair"?

The quick tally that I see is this:

WS gets:
1) warm, fuzzy, lovely new relationship
2) Plan A
3) Time in Plan B to realize the new relationship won't last without actually having to commit to it because he has....
4) warm, fuzzy return to BS because she has made wonderful individual changes for the better and is now concerned that the WS have a "safe" place in which to unpack from the adventures of the past year

BS gets:
1) indescribable emotional hurt and agony (which at last check shows no signs of dissipating - oh wait, it's there for the rest of my life!)
2) full financial and physical responsibility for myself and two babies while WS is using up his all-day-wrist-ticket in Fantasyland
3) mistrust in any man for the rest of her life and the knowledge that of choices a) stay and b) go, neither one is appealing so the rest of my life is "hmm, which option sucks the least?"
4) being told it's actually all my fault


(Yes, I recognize the poor logic here. This is clearly becoming a vent.)

All those little vignettes designed to characterize the marriage before the affair and gain some sympathy for the WS (i.e. how could he NOT given the horrible condition of the marriage) were definitely us. Yet, switch BS and WH and it's still us. But I didn't have an affair! Had the opportunity, but never dreamed of not staying in the marriage and working things out. I asked for help. I tried to help him (although that was a bit of a walk in the dark because he wasn't emotionally invested in us enough to be able to share those things with me).

If all that's going to come out of Recovery is me finding out what a horrible wife I was and identifying all the things I have to change while WH gets the girl, the girl, the plan, and the girl with the implicit understanding that it was the horrible wife that engendered this situation, then I would like to get off of the roller coaster, please.

Sorry if this is long or if it has touched a nerve anywhere. I can either a) blast my husband (which I suspect will be counter-productive to our recovery) or b) blast my friends and family (which will lead to further self-righteous indignation and will be counter-productive to our recovery) or c) blast over here and maybe get a 2x4 to knock some sense into me and might actually be productive to our recovery.

Gris

Griselda:

I couldn't agree more. It really sucks. TT

Good vent.

I like your style.

Pep

Gris,

I completely agree with you....it's about as unfair as it can possibly be. The BS GETS: a continuation of the marriage (to someone who cheated on them), keeps another parent for their children (who has proven to be about as bad of "model" as can be)....doesn't seem worth it sometimes does it?

Here's what you get later though: The self respect and dignity that goes along with being the kind of person who can look themselves in the mirror and say....I did the best I could against horrible odds and in spite of great pain. That tells me, I'm a strong and capable. You gain some life skills that are invaluable.

On the other hand.....I learned alot of from childhood sexual abuse....doesn't mean I would CHOOSE to learn it that way!!! I don't recommend it. And the price was WAY TOO high for the lessons learned no matter what the gain was.

The payoff comes years after the fact. I have a strength and confidence that a unfettered life would probably not have given me. God sent this my way and I made the best of it....and the RESULT is a really good life (I'm really very happy now) with better tools to protect myself and my children. I have a better understanding of what good marital boundaries look like and I'm no longer the gullible giver I once was. I like that. No one will ever do to my children what was done to me as a child. And my husband...well I'm no longer afraid to live without him.....and he knows it. He can screw up again....I can't control him....but I'm fully prepared (financially, emotionally, spiritually) to kick him to curb if he does. Sayonara. Those are the things that have been worth it...nothing else.

Wow.

Gotta tip my hat and applaude you on this post. Pretty tough to argue with you on this one. And what BS would not whole heartedly agree with what you are venting here?

I don't want to sound presumtious by sharing this, but part of me wonders in response to your justifable complaint, if this is what seperates people who succeed in overcoming adversity with those who fail.

It boils down to 'focus'.

It's hard to ignore the obvious chaos and painful turmoil that surrounds you.

And if that becomes the focus of your energy, then it seems to me that is where you will stay.

I heard someone say once that we tend to walk in the direction of our focus.

It would also seem to me, (though I can't claim to have mastered this yet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )that people who truly overcome crap like this, somehow shift their gaze upon the ultimate goal they desire and utilize these harships as stepping stones to getting there.

From a 'spiritual' angle, I can see where scripture would support this notion that "all things work together for the good of them who love God and are called to his purpose".

No one is trying to excuse or justify the wrongs commited, but I think "God" or the 'higher power' enables us to look past the carnage and press on to the ultimate prize. Even non-religous types probably apply this principal of looking past the pain and using it to make them better and not bitter.

But I truly do empathize with the very articulate way in which you voiced how you were feeling, even qualifiying it as a 'vent'.

My prayers are with you as you find your way out of this nightmare.

Here here Griselda......no one is really going to be able to argue with you on your points. And I must say, I've never seen such a concise and to the point rant...LOL, mine are usually fraught with swearing and I'm just generally thrashing around without ever making a point.

I do think that the BS gets something though, it's not all fun and games for the WS once we go to plan B, they suffer the pain of withdrawl, of being without you.....and I don't know why but I get some twisted pleasure from thinking about this. I am getting ready to go back into plan B, and I'm starting to pull back from WH....and he's not liking it he's flopping around like a fish on land. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-Caren

When I first found this site and Mrs. E was in the depths of her A I think my second post on here I said, Okay, let me get this straight, my W has an A and I'm the one that is supposed to do all the making up? How the hell does that make sense? To which I got the following one sentence reply that always stuck in my mind... That's what we are all trying to figure out.

Now much further down the road I would add this. It may not make sense but it does/can work.

One thing you forgot that us BS's get is a better stronger M, at least in my situation that is the case.

Always remember IT'S A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE!!!!

Thanks all, for your replies.

The phrase "do you want to be right or do you want to be married" has been running through my head lately. I think this is part of what you were getting at, B4Long, in that those who are able to look past the garbage that initiated the changes and look forward to the goal (an intact, loving and mutually respectful relationship) are the ones most likely to succeed.

A lot of days I think I'd rather be right, though.

IF he had ended the affair immediately on D-day (or one of the first couple of times it flared up again after that), I suspect I would feel differently. My first response when I found out was to repeat my wedding vow and that I had said "for better or for worse" and apologize for not being what he needed me to be. And I meant it. I have always wanted to be the best wife possible and am very sorry that I wasn't.

But since then, it's gone way beyond whether I was a "good" wife or not. Even if I bought the idea that an affair is a (too often validated) response to unmet needs, the continuation of the affair after clear indications that those needs would not continue to go unmet changes things for me.

The good things you mentioned, star*fish, about knowing you did your best and self-respect etc., I already have thanks to the past year of hell. Is that really the pay-off? Knowing that I have the strength to kick him out at the first sniff of another affair? Cuz I've got that now; why go back into a situation armed with the "right stuff" to deal with potential hurt when you could just avoid the situation entirely?

I know, I know, it's early days and too crazy a time to be making actual "stay or go" decisions. It's just that some days the "stay" option seems so incredibly unappealing.

Thanks for your patience,

Gris

I agree w/ you on so many levels, Gris! Good for you, very articulate!

I have drawn a time line boundary for myself and WH cause I cannot simply go on indefinitly w/ the "healing" and "growing" process... I must see some real results in a finite amt of time or I must walk away to preserve myself...

This was WH's 2nd A... he is lucky I am even still talking to him!! Yes, I was controlling, somewhat manipulative, and was not focusing on his every desire...BUT I was working overtime every week, caring for our kids, this house and juggling the bills (including his business ones) while he sat back and did as little as possible... he returned the favor by havings sex w/ a wh*re! Was he looking for SF? Nope, had more than he wanted here!!! What was he after? Admiration... she made him feel good about himself!!! I was too exhausted to stoke his ego too!

My biggest mistake was not walking out the door sooner and forcing him to stand up and grow or fail, whatever he will do... without the safety net (me) waiting to cushion his fall. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

The "stay" option is unappealing to almost every BS who has ever been on this board! And if d-day was Dec 03, and he still won't end contact....why aren't you in Plan B? Is he still taking classes with her or seeing her on campus....if so...why is he still at that school if he's really serious about working on the marriage? Plan B is NOT for him btw...it benefits you far more than the WS if it's done correctly because it ends the fantasy and lets him face the real consequences of his actions. And don't know many WS who return to warm fuzzies after Plan B either. There should be some pretty strong accountability measures in place that aren't that comfortable. Going through one d-day after another like you've been doing with this waffle expert is brutal...no wonder you're feeling like this!

(((((((((((((((gris)))))))))))))))

Hi star*fish,

Classes in his program ended May '04 after which there was no need for them to ever be in contact again. He came back to Manitoba (school was in British Columbia) for his summer work term. Three weeks into it (during which I continued in a pretty decent Plan B that had begun while he was away with minimal contact only for kid stuff and financial stuff) he broke off the affair. We started weekly MC and worked on spending time together. There was still contact, but I gave him the "I'm glad you felt safe enough to be honest but this hurts me deeply and please stop in order for us to continue recovering our marriage." So he would begrudgingly take the next step in removing himself from contact.

In August he went to Italy for his final semester. There, he was not faced with his wife and kids on a daily basis and, with the two of us only keystrokes away, he jumped back on the fence again.

When I found out, I went a bit crazy and basically bailed on the marriage. I really thought I was done, and even after he returned to Manitoba for Christmas 04, I filed for divorce.

Well, my filing pushed the WS (who was already feeling as though maybe that grass wasn't so green and maybe my own yard wasn't so bad) back into his own yard.

Since then there has been real NC, as far as I can tell. He sent a letter before telling me things were over, but I've read it and it ain't that bad. I have passwords and he's changed his phone#.

He's trying really hard, too. He is starting to accept responsibility (at least verbally) and tries to assure me frequently that this was not my fault and that I did not deserve this and that he feels remorse etc.

I hope that answers your questions - perhaps it changes your answers to me?

Thanks for the hug. Much-needed today.

Gris

gris,

(((((((((((((gris))))))))))))))))

In many ways....leaving Plan B for real recovery is no comfort at all! It was the hardest part...and the least expected to be hard. All the "restraint" of Plan A, and then the "detachment" of Plan B....only to find ourselves free to finally express the pain during early recovery. I wish I HAD offered you answers....but I only asked questions. In any case...quite obviously you have done your best....kept good boundaries and like most of us who found ourselves where you are now...you're asking..."was it worth it??". The only answer I have for you is ...."no...not right now it isn't....but perhaps you will be thankful for the depth of your spirit in the future as I have been." My respect and blessings go out to you. Maybe my thoughts during the time where you are might help just a little. I rememeber thinking "I have today, tomorrow and all the days of my life afterwards to divorce my husband. I don't have much time to save my marriage. I think I'll try that first." I said that everyday for a while. I do have a better husband...it's hardly fair that he was only able to become who he is now at my expense....but I'm thankful just the same...because this is a marriage partner worth having. I felt just like you do now....but I eventually moved past that too....*sigh*.

I think this post of yours should be required reading for BSs in early recovery...it verbalizes the feelings of almost everyone at that stage. Would you give me permission to quote you?

(((((((((((((((gris))))))))))))))

I hope the time moves more quickly now.

Hello evryone! I am new here. I have been reading posts for a while now.

I've started Plan B as of 3/1/05. I'm wondering if it's too late though.

Plan A went from 7/04 to 11/04. WH moved home 12/6/04. Contacted OW less than 24 hours later. Moved into own apt 12/10. Served divorce papers 12/22/04. Has maintained contact w/ both of us (OW & myself) This is why I implemented Plan B. Upon the receipt of the copy of plan B letter, OW blew up and WH began calling & tming me. I didn't respond. My question is--did I wait too long? Are there any similiar stories out there that have a happy ending? Or are at least working on R?

Emotionally, I think I am withdrawing from him right now and it's ****. I feel raw and hopeless.

He is still with the OW. Does anyone think the A might still come to an end? Have I lost the love of my life? I have followed the advice I read to the best of my ability and I still feel my M is ending. Has anyone else been in this particular circumstance? I really need support...

Hey, Griselda, I know my Chaucer and I like your tag! (I started reading your thread because I wondered if you were referring to Patient Griselda...)

OH my.

Those EXACT thaoughts have run thru my head, they just don't come out of my mouth (or thru my fingers) nearly that articulately!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A lot of days I think I'd rather be right, though </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ROFL, Teehee - You ARE RIGHT tho!!

I feel the same way about Angry Outbursts, sometimes. Which by the way, I do not feel are the same as LBs!! WHAT NORMAL person does not have an AO now and then, ESP. about something like this... - I was watching What About Bob today and Richard Dreyfuss said at one point that he never got upset or angry!! And he went nuts!! I was thinking about MB a lot during that movie (that's one of the signs that I read here too much)!

Another thing that I thought about when reading your post was that you didn't meet his ENs. And he didn't meet yours and he didn't tell you his ENs!! If I got that right.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All those little vignettes designed to characterize the marriage before the affair and gain some sympathy for the WS (i.e. how could he NOT given the horrible condition of the marriage) were definitely us. Yet, switch BS and WH and it's still us. But I didn't have an affair! Had the opportunity, but never dreamed of not staying in the marriage and working things out. I asked for help. I tried to help him (although that was a bit of a walk in the dark because he wasn't emotionally invested in us enough to be able to share those things with me). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THAT is sooo me and my H also!! I almost had an affair a few years ago, and told him about it and that we really needed to address some things in our relationship. HA, THAT didn't happen. La la la , on he went on his merry little way to a suspected A about a year after that, over HIS resentments and supposed unmet ENs, that HE NEVER thought he actually needed to share WITH ME!!

I am so sorry Griselda that you are here and please Vent AWAY. It was a fun post to read, except that you are in pain!

jls

- as you can see by my name, Richard Bach is more my style of reading, and Hemingway, Fitzgerald, Ayn Rand and Ann Rice (No wonder I am so confused)-

Hi A.M.,

Right on the money! I wondered if there were any Chaucerians out there.

Yup, poor patient Griselda. Peasant-born, loves her noble husband who sweeps her up, Cinderella-like, out of her "poor" condition. Walter decides to "test" her fidelity, and takes away her children to be put to death (kind Walter only hides them, however), ostensibly at the wish of his court. He pretends to divorce her, again due to "the court's" wishes, yet she remains steadfast. He drives her to her father's house, and her request is simply for a shift to cover her nakedness. He refuses.

Griselda loses her children, her marriage and her home due to her husband's capriciousness. Once Walter is finally satisfied that Griselda is "obedient," he brings her "dead" children to her, and returns her to her rightful place as wife and mistress of the house.

[Edited to add: whoops, forgot the part about where she was invited to attend the mock wedding between Walter and his "new wife" only to find out that SHE was the bride.]

Sweet, patient Griselda's reward is to return to all she had lost with a new and improved Walter who treats her kindly now. The moral of the story is to be steadfast to your husband.

And I like the shortened form - Gris - cuz it's French for "grey." And goodness knows there's a lot of grey in my life these days!

Gris

<small>[ March 05, 2005, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: griselda ]</small>

Hello RC...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is still with the OW. Does anyone think the A might still come to an end? Have I lost the love of my life? I have followed the advice I read to the best of my ability and I still feel my M is ending. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hear the despair and desperation in your 'voice' here. And I'm probably stating the obvious when I tell you that for all the right things you can do, or are doing, that when you are dealing with the free will of another perons (i.e. your spouse's) ...there are simply no gurantees that this 'works'.

Seems to me, and I'm no expert, that following the advice and steps here give you the benefit of knowing you did all you could possibly do to save the marriage while trying to keep your heart intact.

Then there comes a place where you do all you know to do, then commit the rest to God, if he fits in your scheme of things; then hope/pray for the best.

Don't give up believing though. I'm sorry you are in this place.

<small>[ March 05, 2005, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: B4Long ]</small>

Dear Griselda,

Everything you say so well is true and it STINKS. But this is also true...

Unless your husband is a psychopath (and I don't think he is), his conscience will make a return, he'll come out of the fog and realize the GRAVITY of what he has done. He will look in the mirror and be filled with REMORSE and DISGUST at what he has done. He will have trouble looking into the eyes of his very young children, knowing the hardships he has caused them and thinking of how he put their futures at risk in exhange for a little self-gratification.

He will look into your eyes and realize that he has grievously hurt the person that he loves more than any other in this world. He CAUSED that level of pain in you.

When he meets his Maker, he will have to look into those eyes as well. YIKES.

And guess what? You'll get to help him deal with his shame. You'll get to console him. And you'll grow closer by doing so.

You, on the other hand, when the "dust" settles, will see someone who is much stronger than she thought she ever could be. Someone whose needs were also unmet but had the STRENGTH to keep her vows. You "GET" that.

You also "GET" to look into your children's eyes and know that you did everything possible to keep their two-parent home intact. You did not risk their home and well-being by committing adultery. On the contrary, you did everything in your power to preserve your marriage.

I don't take those things lightly, Gris. I try to hold onto them for dear life when I feel myself being pulled down by all the feelings you articulated so well. If I had to play any role in this whole horrible drama, I would choose that of BS any day of the week.

I wish you peace and clarity, Griselda. Sending hugs and prayers your way.

Natalie

Thanks, Natalie. I definitely don't take those things lightly. I know that whatever happens, I can walk out of this valley of the shadow knowing I acted with integrity and that with God's help I made it through hell.

But I forgot something in the tally.

My daughter just drew a picture. I'm the stick figure on the left, and my husband is on the right. In between us are two miniature stick figures who are perfect replicas of us. The sky is raining heart stickers. And Mommy and Daddy are giving each other Valentines and DS and DD are giving each other Valentines.

And so DD and DS get:

1) happy stability in the midst of chaos
2) two loving parents
3) the possibility of a future where Mommy and Daddy don't have separate houses and separate lives and most importantly of all...
4) a legacy of grace and forgiveness and facing problems head-on and living examples of commitment, truth and love (if Mommy and Daddy can both get their acts together and if they can't, well, at least they'll go down with this ship bailing water as frantically as they can).


(Sighing and gritting my teeth and putting our "family portrait" where I will see it many times a day)

I guess I can do this for one more day.

Gris

P.S. Sorry to respond so late - feel free to share any of this with anyone you like, star*fish.

Man, even the 3-year-old gets the picture! Hope she shares it with Dad!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that whatever happens, I can walk out of this valley of the shadow knowing I acted with integrity </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right on! Integrity, if you don't have it, what do you have, really?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> a legacy of grace and forgiveness and facing problems head-on and living examples of commitment, truth and love (if Mommy and Daddy can both get their acts together and if they can't </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WOW. Grace, forgiveness, commitment, truth, and love. They're very lucky kids to have you as their mom.

Stay strong, Griselda, honey. Something tells me you're gonna get through this just fine.

Nat