Hi all.

My 2 cents worth. I’ve not read all the posts in this thread, just skimmed through, so I don’t know if anyone has quoted this scripture already or not. If so, sorry.

In Mark 3:28, 29, Jesus is quoted as saying, “I tell you the truth, all sins that people do and all the things people say against God can be forgiven. But anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of a sin that continues forever.” That’s The Inspirational Bible version. In other versions, speaking against the Holy Spirit is called “blaspheming.”

Of course, then we have to define “blasphemy.”Cruden’s concordance says, “In old Jewish law, to revile or curse God, or the king, who was God’s representative. It means intentional indignity offered to God or sacred things” (45).

Growing up (Baptist), I was taught that blaspheming the Holy Spirit means rejecting salvation. So, blasphemy is a sin (rejecting salvation and speaking out against Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit), but not all sins are blasphemy.

The difference would be that we can repent and be forgiven for committing adultery, but if a person rejects salvation, he or she won't be forgiven. They wouldn’t ask for forgiveness anyway, because they don’t believe in Jesus, God, or the Holy Spirit.

Does that make sense to anybody else?

God bless,

Rose

Rose,

Makes sense to me...that is what I had been taught also. On the other hand, many of the arguments against that also sound convincing....
It frustrates me that there are so many different opinions and interpretations of scripture, and I alos have wondered how much meaning was actually lost in the translation from the Greek or Hebrew into English! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
I mean, Fishracer spent hours and hours searching for answers and still has not found a definitive one....neither have I! I often thought, now why doesn't God make it perfectly clear, clear enough for someone as dense as me, to understand? Or does he, and I am the one who complicates it?
It is, I think, a mistake, maybe, to look for answers in the form of a topical study, because it is too easy to leave out the rest of the Bible, and I was taught that you need to take everything in the Bible in context with the rest of the Bible, in it's entirety! I mean, you can't just look for verses pertaining to a certain subject, and you also have to look at the ones before and after, to make sure you aren't misunderstanding, and then you also have to look at the whole BOOK the verses are in....on and on and on. It seems so complicated.....and whenever I try to study some subject (like this one).....I inevitable end up feeling more confused and more ignorant!

ANyway, that was just a ramble....


NOW

NOW - (edited to address post to correct person!)

I hear ya. It does get overwhelmingly frustrating and confusing sometimes.

For what it's worth, and if you're looking for a good translation of the Bible, I just wanted to mention that the version I quoted is actually The New Century Version (The Inspirational Bible, edited by Max Lucado).

In the Preface, it says, "A team of scholars from the World Bible Translation Center worked together with twenty-one other experienced Bible scholars from all over the world to translate the text directly from the best available Greek and Hebrew texts." It was recommended to me by a pastor who speaks Greek and Hebrew. She felt like it was a very good translation.

God bless,

Rose

<small>[ March 09, 2005, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Rose55 ]</small>

THanks Rose! I think I have that version, though just a "plain" one. I love Max Lucado. I've been re-reading his book "In The Grip Of Grace" which is basically a kind of "commentary" on Romans...the one book that has a lot to say about obeying the "law" and grace and salvation. It's really good. He believes in radical grace, unbelievable grace, the "too-good-to-be-true" grace. I want to believe that so badly!

Thanks again!

NOW

I've been thinking about Heb 6:4 all afternoon. I'll qoute nc's version: It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [5] who have tasted the word of God and the powers of the coming age, [6] if they fall away, to be brought back to repentence, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."

If the only unforgiveable sin is blasphemy, then in order for this verse not to contradict with scriptures about God's grace and forgiveness, it seems like "fall away" would have to mean "blaspheme" (reject the Holy Spirit and salvation).

So then, it would be "impossible...(for those people)..to be brought back to repentence" because they WON'T come back (they've already made their decision to reject salvation), not because they CAN'T come back. They have figuratively already crucified Christ twice by rejecting Him?

Just more food for thought.

God bless,

Rose

Earlier on this thread noodle mentioned King David as an example of someone in the Bible who already belonged to God, sinned, and we obviously can't imagine that he would be rejected from entering Heaven.

I don't know if anyone mentioned the Apostle Peter as well. He denied knowing Christ 3 times, and Christ had said "If you deny me before men, I will deny you before my father in Heaven," and we can't imagine that Peter wouldn't make it into the kingdom. We're told he "wept bitter tears" afterward (repented). (Sorry I don't want to take the time to look these scriptures up right now, but they're in the Bible.)

I was also thinking about the parable of the Prodigal Son that Jesus taught (in Luke 15). The Prodigal was already the rich man's son, left in rebellion, came back and repented, and the rich man accepted him back again - still as his son.

O.k. I've really got to go and think about something else for awhile! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God bless,

Rose (almost wrote my real name! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

Bumping because I am very intrigued

I also stumbled accross the story of Peter denying Christ 3 times. And he knew Christ PERSONALLY. Could FEEL the love. And yet he still denied.

My conclusion? I cannot say that salvation is permanent. There is too much indicating that it can be lost.

But I also cannot say that it cannot be reclaimed, though there is a verse or two quoted above that seems to say so.

My whole impetus for this was the state of my WW's salvation.

At the end of the day, it WILL be God who decides. All I can do is pray. She has to choose her own path. And if pray for her salvation to be restored and it was never in jeapordy (i.e. permanent salvation) then what is the harm?

As far as the belief that mine can be lost. Well, we are all sinners and we will all sin. If I am now a little more fervent about repentance for a sin, again what is the harm.

I will still worry, but the best thing about a strong relationship with God and a strong study of the Bible is that it helps you live your life DAY TO DAY. It is PRACTICAL and can give practical answers if you know how to listen.

If salvation is indeed able to be lost, there is a practical take-away. Be quick to be broken hearted, contrite and repentent over the transgression. Like it says in the Book, keep the lamps at the ready for you know not the hour the master will return (or the hour you will check out).

Given that, the "rightness" or "wrongness" of the salvation issue is kind of superfluous.

This passage generally comes up in discussions about once saved, always saved:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">John 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and my Father are one.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My pastor explains this passage
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> HEB 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [5] who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, [6] if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">as meaning that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE to lose salvation, there would be no hope of regaining it. Jesus Christ was crucified ONCE for our sins. If that sacrifice is not sufficient, there is no other.

NCW,
Just a thought. All are sinners and fall short of the glory of God. Some come to Christ in faith and are saved. They are still sinners, for it is our nature to sin, but they have a new awareness in them. If it is possible to lose one's salvation by sinning then how can any of us hope to see heaven. I believe God's love is above and beyond all else, and he knows what's in our hearts. He alone will decide who enters the kingdom and it is for us to seek out. The key is not so much the sin, for we all sin remember, but in the turning away from the sinful act and asking God's forgiveness and strength to resist that which tempts us. God will embrace a truly repentant heart.
I understand your concern for RAP and have had the same concern for my W. All we can do as spouses is express our concern, plant the seed, pray, and nurture. It's up to them to seek God's way for them. But I don't believe anyone is ever so lost that they can't find their way back to Him. God's love covers all. Jesus proves that.
Keep the faith my friend. Always, RDL.

NCW,
Me again. Another good thread that shouldn't die out. Thought I'd give it a bump. RDL